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Old 2009-03-07, 15:18   Link #181
Janifuu
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I think the lack of development between Ryuuji and Ami is more than simply bad luck or coming into the game too late. If it were mean't to be between those two, it wouldn't matter at what given point they meet one another, it would have worked sooner or later. The fact that Ryuuji not once has shown any romantic interest in her plays key in part of showing that any romantic interest that *might* have been portrayed between them always has been and always will be one sided. I will say though that I'm impressed with her development from when she first came into the picture in comparison to her current state, shes come a long way. I still feel though that any point in her progression that she was simply never really suitable for Ryuuji.

Minori, well, perhaps there was more of a chance of something developing between her and Ryuuji, especially in comparison to whatever alleged chances there were with Ami. I think Ryuuji is beginning to see though that much like what Taiga felt towards Kitamura at one point, his feelings towards Minori were never more than a crush. It's pretty obvious given his characteristics and behavior around Minori in the earlier episodes and observing the transitions in his feelings in the recent episodes between him and Taiga. I see a much greater difference when comparing his feelings between the two girls, one being an old crush, and the other being a developing love. Perhaps I'm sounding biased (which I'm really trying not to be... just observant,) but I see it very clearly how much greater of a role Taiga plays in his life and well being than anyone else mentionable from the series, especially given whats been demonstrated in episode 22. To each their own though I suppose

Last edited by Janifuu; 2009-03-07 at 16:06.
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Old 2009-03-08, 03:57   Link #182
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Originally Posted by Janifuu View Post
I think the lack of development between Ryuuji and Ami is more than simply bad luck or coming into the game too late. If it were mean't to be between those two, it wouldn't matter at what given point they meet one another, it would have worked sooner or later. The fact that Ryuuji not once has shown any romantic interest in her plays key in part of showing that any romantic interest that *might* have been portrayed between them always has been and always will be one sided. I will say though that I'm impressed with her development from when she first came into the picture in comparison to her current state, shes come a long way. I still feel though that any point in her progression that she was simply never really suitable for Ryuuji.

Minori, well, perhaps there was more of a chance of something developing between her and Ryuuji, especially in comparison to whatever alleged chances there were with Ami. I think Ryuuji is beginning to see though that much like what Taiga felt towards Kitamura at one point, his feelings towards Minori were never more than a crush. It's pretty obvious given his characteristics and behavior around Minori in the earlier episodes and observing the transitions in his feelings in the recent episodes between him and Taiga. I see a much greater difference when comparing his feelings between the two girls, one being an old crush, and the other being a developing love. Perhaps I'm sounding biased (which I'm really trying not to be... just observant,) but I see it very clearly how much greater of a role Taiga plays in his life and well being than anyone else mentionable from the series, especially given whats been demonstrated in episode 22. To each their own though I suppose
These are good points and I agree... The thing that I think the author is expressing through these characters is that sometimes what you think is love for someone is simply that they have something to teach you about yourself. Once they have sparked that learning in you, the relationship is done. You can stay friends, but there will no longer be any specific deeper connection. Additionally, sometimes the other party is aware of their importance in your growth, and sometimes they are indifferent or unaware...

For Ami, Ryuji helped her see that her mask was her hinderance, and now she sees other's masks as a hinderance too. Ami has largely gotten from Ryuji what she needed, and it wasn't his affection. She will get over it and move on.

For Minori its more difficult because she refuses to face her blind spots, BUT she is exploring her own values through Ryuji. As she gets clearer about what drives her and makes who she is, she will become more willing to look into the dark places of her psyche to face her demons. Ryuji has been the necessary sounding board for her too.

You see, just because many people SEEM like a good match for you, it doen't mean they really are. It needs to be mutual, or else you will simply learn your life lesson and lose your "partner". So far only Ryuji and Taiga have been set up in that "mutual support" role. The other girls are learning and moving on...

Ryuji, for his part doesn't realize he's the catalyst in these other's lives, but he is beginning to understand that the one behind him is the one truly supporting him and that he had been reciprocating. Now that he isn't, he feels the gap and doesn't yet understand that all he needs to do is turn around.
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Old 2009-03-08, 08:46   Link #183
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Originally Posted by Janifuu View Post
I think Ryuuji is beginning to see though that much like what Taiga felt towards Kitamura at one point, his feelings towards Minori were never more than a crush.
It is questionable. Basically, a difference between crush and love. Taiga herself firmly in her mind believed that what she feels for Kitamura is not crush but something deeper and stronger. Yet when she realizes taht she likes Ryuji she starts convincing herself that Kitamura love was more of a crush, but in reality it could be love.

Juts like in real life, as long as we are in relationship we believe it to be love, but once we start to fall out of it, such excuses as that it was more of a crush or not a real love of the life etc and the one who you love at the moment is...

But because you are out of relationship your perception changes yet the moment when you are in you perceive it as love. Personally I believe that it was love, at least Taiga's feelings to Kitamura, because they really seemed to reach deep at one moment... Now Ryuuji's I am not so sure.
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Old 2009-03-08, 09:02   Link #184
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Both Taiga and Ryuuji are suffering from the classic "You don't know what you got til it's gone" syndrome, plain and simple. Used a hell of a lot, but because it is by far the most powerful tool that reminds us just how much we care for someone, and we realize this only when they aren't there.

To me, separation is the catalyst that is the prime indicator of just what you feel about someone. The moment of realization that she isn't enforcing violence on you, that she isn't spouting that potty mouth at your idiocy, that she isn't there to support you. In turn, that he is no longer making you your lunch, being the first person to greet you in the morning, that he no longer gives you the extra push you need.

Think about it this way. There is no scene that indicates that Taiga, if at all, misses Kitamura when he is conspicuously absent. Neither does Ryuuji brood excessively when Kushieda isn't on the scene.

Now compare it to each other. The moment Taiga realizes Ryuuji is going to try to walk out of their paired lives, she screams and runs after him on the street, where she collapses and cries. The day in school that Taiga is absent due to injury, he is sick with worry and even dreams about her, then is in elation when she knocks on his front door. The above barely last even a day, much less a few hours.

Seeing the way they react to each others absence, it was proof enough for me that they felt stronger for each other than their crushes.
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Old 2009-03-08, 13:16   Link #185
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No, think back to novel book seven. For me one part in particular hit pretty hard, that Taiga does indeed have strong feelings to Kitamura. At that particular moment it really looked so, and Taiga believed it to be so as well. Yes, later she has second thoughts but that moment her thoughts were sincere and rather strong, nothing about Ryuuji were as strong or sincere, so I cannot really see how you can easily distinguish that it was weaker and so on.

Yes there was no response back, thus was one-sided but feelings she had were really strong. On the other hand Ryuuji and Minori relationship never looked as strong from Ryuuji's point of view as his feelings were never as deep and strong at any point of the novels as Taiga's to Kitamura's.
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Old 2009-03-08, 18:23   Link #186
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I always saw Taiga/Ryuuji having an crush on Kitamura/Minori respectively. Was it an deep on either's part maybe,maybe not. Taiga and Ryuuji feelings for one another are alot more deeper than the feelings they had for Kitamura and Minori in my opinion.
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Old 2009-03-08, 18:39   Link #187
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I dunno Nemo.

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Old 2009-03-09, 09:08   Link #188
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Again, I do not really think deeper as in a sense of love. More like deeper as in a sense of understanding, but again what is love... kind of tough question, since it is hard to find a definite answer... For me Taiga's feeling for Kitamura as revealed in 7th volume (I think) did hit as very sincere and deep reaching, what wasn't there was the understanding and it being mutual but I do not see that what Taiga was feeling at that the moment as just a crush.

On the other hand even with that reminder, Ryuuji's feelings do not seem as much sincere as Taiga's... Maybe because we see everything from Ryuuji's perspective we see him thinking about Taiga a lot, while when we see from Taiga's perspective those short glimpses she was thinking about Kitamura much more than about Ryuuji at this point. Of course later it changed when we were allowed to look into her perspective again, and she even herself was thinking what her feelings were, but at that moment Kitamura seemed to be much deeper place than Ryuuji, while for Ryuuji it always looked like Taiga is more important than Minori.

Thats why I have an impression that at one point Taiga's feelings for Kitamura were more than just a crush, even if she later tries to convince herself that it always was not as strong, but for me what I saw in the novels when Taiga's feelings were revealed it really hit with sincerity and depth something more than just a crush, while Ryuuji's feelings for minori never seemed to touch the same depth.
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Old 2009-03-09, 09:18   Link #189
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I think you mean volume 6. Volume 7 is where she completely broke down when she realized she loved ryuuji all along and everything with kitamura was a daydream.

Last edited by Tango337; 2009-03-09 at 09:29.
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Old 2009-03-09, 09:53   Link #190
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It's more apparent with the 'crushes' they were more into their opposites 'image'? Both Kitamura/Minorin represented a 'light' to Ryuuji amd Taiga's 'darkness'. You don't actually know who the other is.

They failed to see that they could become 'light' to others.
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Old 2009-03-29, 11:09   Link #191
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First off, I can't believe there is a few clowns getting stuck into a *character* from an anime/movie. Well actually I can cause they have nothing else better to do than argue on a forum .

now to my post ^_^

I really like him, like his kind nature hes funny to watch especially when he looks to freak at growing mold in his house (my first laugh of the series). I've quite enjoyed his character role so far. I like how hes got the mean scary eyes and is feared by people, its a good different approach to the leading male character. I'd befriend him for sure . His inspiration to clean kinda wants me to try it and see if it makes cleaning more interesting O_O

At first I can say I didn't like how Taiga was treating him, but as I got to understand Taiga alot more it was amusing and he is a tough cookie after all. I sorta like the relation ship they currently have with each other. Who would of known her window was just across from his house O_O

I up to like episode 19 and kinda getting agitated because he's still chasing the girl he was burned by, even after he was told *twice* from Ami-chan that he would get burned. He got burned bad so why doesn't he move on O_o.

Kinda think it would be ok with Ami-chan and him became more closer into a relationship. Taiga, well I sorta think she'd be a better as a comrade to him rather than a love relationship (as in best friends still). Mainly because of the way shes cruel to him. But however it will end, I guess I will find out when I finish the series. If He and Taiga get together that way, well it would be interesting.... but long as its not Minorin his still grasping at straws with!!


Quote:
Please remember something about Ryuuji, it is the first in his life that he has something like a gruop of friends, before everybody fear him... he is the same than Taiga in that, he has Kitamura and Taiga Minori, but nothing else.

So when Taiga and Ryuuji meet each other, they started a journey in a totally unknown world for them...
I seen this earlier in the thread and I believe this is post is true. His mean/evil/yankie looking face has made a lot of people fear him to the point finding friends is difficult for him. It's made clear Kitamura has been the only friend hes really had prior to the beginning of series.

This explains why hes so attached to Inko-chan (his ugly parrot) since it seems his mother (its not told but add 1 and 1 together) always comes home drunk every night. Thinking about it, Inko-chan could be the thing whos helped him move along in life preventing his mind breaking down from loneliness. Hench to why Inko-chan is treated as family and looked after.


Anyway I know I probably talked bla bla bla but to conclude. I've found him an awesome character for Toradora, <3 his kinda nature, amusing behavior and ability to put up with Taigas cruelness. He gets a thumbs up from me. Better than watching a$$holes like most guys are (I admit that as a guy), I might even be one O_O

/end
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Last edited by Velsy; 2009-03-30 at 10:36.
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Old 2009-04-21, 17:32   Link #192
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Am I the only one who found Ryuuji extremely annoying with his total indecisiveness ?

Sure, the whole cast is frustratingly unable to take five minutes to ask very simple questions to people they see everyday and spend much time, that could clear all the situation very easily.
But Ryuuji is even unable to finish half of his sentence, or to answer in anything more assertive than "err...", "hmm, well..." or "hu, yeah, I suppose...".
Wall banger, seriously.
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Old 2009-04-21, 17:40   Link #193
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Did we watch the same anime? I mean, Ryuji can be called many things, but indecisive... that's a first. If anything, I'd call him stubborn for not coming to terms with Taiga's feelings as soon as he found out about them.
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Old 2009-04-21, 17:49   Link #194
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Did we watch the same anime? I mean, Ryuji can be called many things, but indecisive... that's a first. If anything, I'd call him stubborn for not coming to terms with Taiga's feelings as soon as he found out about them.
We're talking about the guy who spent one year with his stated love interest in his class and who shared half his meals and who couldn't find fifteen seconds to ask her out, right ?
Who would so pathetically waste any opportunity because of his inability to even finish a sentence that it would like he was failing on purpose ?
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Old 2009-04-21, 18:33   Link #195
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There are people with chronic cases of shyness, mate. That's the case here, not indecisiveness...
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Old 2009-04-21, 19:19   Link #196
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There are people with chronic cases of shyness, mate. That's the case here, not indecisiveness...
Shyness is a thing. The kind of inability to take any decision, do anything that would actually make sense in the situation, or even simply having a very simple, short and coherent discussion, is something else.

I have a hard time understanding how you can see the serie and not bang your head on the wall at seeing how contrived it is to have Ryuuji expertingly dodging any possibility to resolve any situation - and even more expertingly dodging any clue about which girl love who, it'd be comical if it wasn't so teeth-clenching irritating.

In fact, after a short while, his love for Minori started to seem like an informed ability, considering how inexistant his efforts to actually DO something to get her were.
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Old 2009-04-22, 03:47   Link #197
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Shyness is a thing. The kind of inability to take any decision, do anything that would actually make sense in the situation, or even simply having a very simple, short and coherent discussion, is something else.
Not in anime, it's not. You haven't really watched all that many shows, have you?
Even in real life, I know some people who do far worse than dear old Ryuji - and I wouldn't really call them indecisive, either.

Also, the TV Tropes slangs do get kinda tiring, after a while.
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Old 2009-04-22, 03:48   Link #198
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If you're angry that someone see in a show flaws that you don't see, and if you're taking it personnally that someone has a negative opinion on a character you like, maybe you should take a break and chill out, you know ?

I'm not looking for a fight, I'm just, well, using the thread for what it's for : sharing opinion on the character. Aren't you a bit overprotective ?
Quote:
Not in anime, it's not. You haven't really watched all that many shows, have you?
Yes I did.
And precisely, the entire concept of "let's take a very easily solvable situation requiring only maybe twenty seconds of discussion between characters to be solved, and stretch it for ungodly amount of time because none of the character will manage to act in a way that makes sense" is one of the feature I so often encountered. And I really don't like it, because it just seem soooo contrived, and require characters to act rather absurdly.
Quote:
Even in real life, I know some people who do far worse than dear old Ryuji - and I wouldn't really call them indecisive, either.
Yeah, there are people even worse that Ryuuji - and they precisely ARE indecisive. That's actually the point of the word, describing people who don't act while they would like to ?
"I want to ask her out, but I can't bring myself to do it", well it's more or less the very definition of indecisiveness.

And sorry for the TV Trope sland, I do find it quite useful when trying to convey some, well, typical tropes (and I do find them funny, but like they say, your mileage may vary ).
I tried not to use any of it in this post, even though "passing the idiot ball" to describe how nobody is able to resolve something so simple for such a long time, really made my finghers itchy ^^

Last edited by Akka; 2009-04-22 at 04:00.
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Old 2009-04-22, 04:13   Link #199
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The people I was referring to actually include a shrewd businessman who is richer than I could possibly fathom, a lead singer in a local rock and roll band (with quite the female following) and, even, a female schoolteacher who shines at dealing with troublesome teenagers. They are NOT indecisive about the decisions they make, day in and day out. But all of them have a horrible time trying to talk to people from the opposing gender, even going so far as developing stammering stutters, in more than one occasion - except for the schoolteacher, as she prefers girls (even more fuel to her embarrassment).

And I might point out that Ryuji never really had the urge to ask Minorin out, before he met Taiga and concocted that hare-brained scheme: he was quite content with observing from afar and dreaming his perfect scenarios. He might have wanted to ask her out, but he wasn't overly anguished about not being able to.

Also, the overly-shy way of anime characters behaving? Well, I had a hard time with it personally, until I saw a few real-life examples who were even more absurd. Then, I realized that everyone is different, and I shouldn't really judge people's behavior based on my own.
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Old 2009-04-22, 04:54   Link #200
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Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I *am* among the people who are extremely shy and at a loss of words when being close to love interest, but as I said, the way the plot drags on because Ryuuji is unable to ask very simple/easy questions or to act, is just too contrived, even for someone like me
Add to it how he is usually passive/submissive, and you have someone that I find rather irritating - though not without qualities.

Let's just say we have different appreciation on the matter ^^
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