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Old 2009-04-18, 04:46   Link #1801
morbosfist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClovisLaBritannia View Post
well Lelouch obviously hated him and while Nunally was probably too kindhearted to have hate; she probably has an extreme dilike for him, also i can see Euphemia disliking him going against her pacifist views only never outright stating that, and it seems to be hinted Schneizel was not very fond of his father though.
Few among many, and Schenizel straight up did not care.

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Originally Posted by ClovisLaBritannia View Post
also were the First Prince Odysseus and First Princess Guinevere created as a joke seeing as how even though they are the first born and first in line for the throne, they arent really important or do anything in the series? (and Odysseus seemsto be a weak and indecisive idiot who could never lead an Area much less the entire Britannian empire.)
Not everyone can be a magnificent bastard.
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Old 2009-04-18, 09:22   Link #1802
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
1. Uh, no, Clovis would not help assassinate Charles. If he's afraid of being disowned, he's not going to turn entirely. Also, contrary to your opinion, most of Charles' kids seem more than happy with his policies.
I disagree.
Clovis oviously doesn't give a damn about politics. He also refused to learn how to pilot a Knightmare, and is never shown to make an effort to please his father. He wouldn't even have gotten involved with that whole governing thing if it hadn't been for Lelouch's "death" in Japan, and I don't think the Emperor approved of his lack of political ambition.
Clovis also kept Code R a secret from his father, which makes me doubt he held much love for him. If anything, he would blame him for sending his siblings to Japan in the first place, because despite what some people might think, Clovis is not dumb. Charles didn't have to attack Japan while Lelouch and Nunally were there.
It is clearly shown that without Lelouch, Clovis doesn't have a purpose and couldn't care less about anything at all. He was, however, ready to take on a job he despised in honour of his brother and the match they never finished, and probably loved him more than anything else.
So, in my opinion, if Lelouch had asked him to, and especially if he had told him what exactly the Emperor had done, Clovis wouldn't have hesistated to support Lelouch's cause. He used to be a truly awesome person before he came to Japan, and in the anime, he appeared for two episodes. You can't just take that little screen time and say: "It's completely certain he wouldn't have helped Lelouch" when the most defining thing about his character was his love for his brother.
Sure, Clovis clung to his status. But did he have anything else left? If he'd been disinherited, he could have as well gone and jumped off a cliff. Actually, he could have done that before, but he's not the honourable death kind of guy.

Quote:
Lelouch killed Clovis because it was the starting point of his rebellion. Walking in and killing the Viceroy says something about how dangerous you are.
Don't forget Lelouch's hatred for his family, which, at that point, was probably his main motivation.
And his hatred really runs deep. He was so sure Clovis was involved in his mother's death, when in truth, he admired her just like Cornelia did.


Edit:
Oh, and I think it was shown that Schneizel wasn't happy at all with what his father did. He simply wanted his ultimate world peace.
Also, I doubt it's a coincidence that there is not one of Lelouch's siblings who was shown to love their father. That family was all about power - they tried to claw each other's eyes out whenever they could, which is why Lelouch viewed everyone there as his enemy. Those like Cornelia and Clovis, who truly cared about their siblings, were probably a huge exception. And I have a hunch Clovis only cared about some of his siblings.
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Last edited by Nogitsune; 2009-04-18 at 09:41.
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Old 2009-04-18, 12:47   Link #1803
azul120
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Wait, was Carline from the same mother as Guinevere and Odysseus? That's a long gap.
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Old 2009-04-18, 22:33   Link #1804
ClovisLaBritannia
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Wait, was Carline from the same mother as Guinevere and Odysseus? That's a long gap.
well they seem to be, especially since shes nunallys age and she is the fifth princess, whereas even lelouch is like the eleventh prince


1. does the "Knight" rank exist for Princes? because it seems like Bartley was Clovis' second-in-command
and we all know how gay kanon is for schneizel
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Old 2009-04-18, 22:38   Link #1805
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Carline may be descended from actual royalty though, which would be enough for a higher ranking.
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Old 2009-04-18, 22:59   Link #1806
CapoExecutor
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How come no one tried to use biological weapons in the series? I'm sure some kamikaze pilots from Japan could've air-dropping fleas and dead bodies infected with engineered strains of bubonic plague on the Britannian mainland to trigger a genocidal epidemic or the capital to take out the leadership.

Better yet, have the Japanese covertly infect some food products with smallpox before selling them to the Britannians.
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Old 2009-04-18, 23:31   Link #1807
ClovisLaBritannia
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Carline may be descended from actual royalty though, which would be enough for a higher ranking.
yes, Charles is that royaty and im sure he doesnt have a sister
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Old 2009-04-19, 01:18   Link #1808
TimelessEcholocation
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Originally Posted by CapoExecutor View Post
How come no one tried to use biological weapons in the series? I'm sure some kamikaze pilots from Japan could've air-dropping fleas and dead bodies infected with engineered strains of bubonic plague on the Britannian mainland to trigger a genocidal epidemic or the capital to take out the leadership.

Better yet, have the Japanese covertly infect some food products with smallpox before selling them to the Britannians.
There was just the poison gas incident as far as I can remember.

In any case, I think biological warfare was mostly done through the use of Refrain that the Britannians ran the cartels for in order to keep the Japanese in line. It would be nice to see some of the Japanese resistence utilize plague and smallpox but cleaning up infected areas is too much trouble. However, dropping those diseases in the Britannian mainland would have been a different story altogether... no different than sending a certain cursed video tape that kills people in seven days after they watch it.
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Old 2009-04-19, 13:18   Link #1809
azul120
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Originally Posted by ClovisLaBritannia View Post
yes, Charles is that royaty and im sure he doesnt have a sister
I'm talking about the mother. Marianne was a commoner, which explains the lower ranking of Lelouch and Nunnally.
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Old 2009-04-19, 13:41   Link #1810
Rising Dragon
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I think the word one is looking for here is not royalty, but nobility. Carline's mother may have been a noble, thus putting her higher than Lelouch. Carline may have only gotten higher than Nunnally after she and Lelouch were exiled to Japan.
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Old 2009-04-20, 12:22   Link #1811
Code Geass
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Clovis also kept Code R a secret from his father, which makes me doubt he held much love for him. If anything, he would blame him for sending his siblings to Japan in the first place, because despite what some people might think, Clovis is not dumb. Charles didn't have to attack Japan while Lelouch and Nunally were there.
I don't think that it had anything to do with "love." It was probably for his own ambitions. The majority of the royal family were out to slit each other's throats. Plus, Clovis thought that Lelouch was dead, and probably Nunnally as well.
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Old 2009-04-20, 13:50   Link #1812
Nogitsune
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I don't think that it had anything to do with "love." It was probably for his own ambitions.
The thing is, Clovis is not the most ambitious person around.
He's an artis who, according to the Sound Drama, neither enjoys piloting a knightmare nor ruling a country
He seemed to be truly interested in that research, yes, but we don't know his reasons. Was he bored? Was he curious?
I can't imagine a likely scenario that would have forbidden him to go with the Emperor with whatever it was that he was looking for - except if he knew that his father already knew something, or if he was just trying to spite him.
Or maybe he wanted to find something awesome and get the Emperor to let him return to Britannia without disinheriting him.
But ambition - beyond retaining his social status - is a trade Clovis was never shown to have.

Quote:
The majority of the royal family were out to slit each other's throats.
Yes, but not Clovis, who despised "that sort of work" (-> gouverning, and probably politics as a whole).
Actually, his family is the only thing he was shown to truly value.

Quote:
Plus, Clovis thought that Lelouch was dead, and probably Nunnally as well.
True, but they were supposed to have died in Japan, when Britannia invaded.
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Old 2009-04-20, 14:29   Link #1813
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
True, but they were supposed to have died in Japan, when Britannia invaded.
Which he blames Japan for.
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Old 2009-04-20, 14:47   Link #1814
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Which he blames Japan for.
Past tense.
He used to blame Japan, probably a very long time before he decided to go to Area 11.
That's the impression I got, and I already explained somewhere why it makes the most sense to me. But sure, if you ignore his tone of voice and want to have everything at face value, I can't prove it, since Clovis' personality is really mostly a matter of interpretation. (Still, he found out that Lelouch had a Japanese friend, and at least that made a difference.)
Doesn't change the fact that he was never shown to think very highly of his father, or that he probably loved Lelouch more than anything else.
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Old 2009-04-20, 22:49   Link #1815
ClovisLaBritannia
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
The thing is, Clovis is not the most ambitious person around.
He's an artis who, according to the Sound Drama, neither enjoys piloting a knightmare nor ruling a country
He seemed to be truly interested in that research, yes, but we don't know his reasons. Was he bored? Was he curious?
I can't imagine a likely scenario that would have forbidden him to go with the Emperor with whatever it was that he was looking for - except if he knew that his father already knew something, or if he was just trying to spite him.
Or maybe he wanted to find something awesome and get the Emperor to let him return to Britannia without disinheriting him.
But ambition - beyond retaining his social status - is a trade Clovis was never shown to have.



Yes, but not Clovis, who despised "that sort of work" (-> gouverning, and probably politics as a whole).
Actually, his family is the only thing he was shown to truly value.



True, but they were supposed to have died in Japan, when Britannia invaded.
ok, now im interested, which Sound drama was that? and is there somewhere i can wach this dubbed?
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Old 2009-04-21, 11:28   Link #1816
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by ClovisLaBritannia View Post
ok, now im interested, which Sound drama was that? and is there somewhere i can wach this dubbed?
Stage 0.884, "The Imperial Siblings".
And it's awesome. Every Clovis fan should have listened to it. *-*
So... you'll definitely get a pm from me. xD
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Old 2009-04-23, 15:14   Link #1817
Code Geass
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
But ambition - beyond retaining his social status - is a trade Clovis was never shown to have.



Yes, but not Clovis, who despised "that sort of work" (-> gouverning, and probably politics as a whole).
Actually, his family is the only thing he was shown to truly value.
Being viceroy of Area 11, Clovis must have had some ambition. And what with how arrogant he is, his family couldn't have meant that much to him. When they weren't around, he wasn't showing any concern for them at all. He only sounded worried when Lelouch approached him with a gun, and that was because his life was in danger.
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Old 2009-04-23, 15:38   Link #1818
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Code Geass View Post
Being viceroy of Area 11, Clovis must have had some ambition. And what with how arrogant he is, his family couldn't have meant that much to him. When they weren't around, he wasn't showing any concern for them at all. He only sounded worried when Lelouch approached him with a gun, and that was because his life was in danger.
Except, well, Clovis absolutely loved Marianne, Lelouch, and Nunnally. Not only did he remodel the top of the gov't building to match the Imperial villa's garden (which Lelouch noted), he painted a grand picture of Marianne, Lelouch, and Nunnally. His entire reason for going to Area 11 to govern it was for Lelouch.

And then, something happened along the way and Clovis became... the guy who Lelouch shot.

Also, I find it interesting that Clovis is the only person Lelouch felt ill about killing.
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Old 2009-04-23, 15:44   Link #1819
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Also, I find it interesting that Clovis is the only person Lelouch felt ill about killing.
The first time is usually the most difficult. It's not like he'd physically killed before that (there's a certain detachment when it comes to Geass, I'd say).
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Old 2009-04-23, 16:42   Link #1820
Nogitsune
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Except, well, Clovis absolutely loved Marianne, Lelouch, and Nunnally. Not only did he remodel the top of the gov't building to match the Imperial villa's garden (which Lelouch noted), he painted a grand picture of Marianne, Lelouch, and Nunnally. His entire reason for going to Area 11 to govern it was for Lelouch.

And then, something happened along the way and Clovis became... the guy who Lelouch shot.
*signs that*
Whoever doubts those facts really needs to listen to teh respective Sound Drama. Did I mention it's awesome?



Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
The first time is usually the most difficult. It's not like he'd physically killed before that (there's a certain detachment when it comes to Geass, I'd say).
*nods her head*
Also, Clovis was a part of Lelouch's past, and he basically did to him with his own hands what other people did to his mother.
Not to mention they had an interesting relationship going on once upon a time. Even though Lelouch completely disregarded that, he probably didn't forget about it.
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