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Old 2009-04-26, 01:51   Link #41
PzIVf3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
What is hogwash is the idea of one round going in one Sherman and coming out of it to blow a hole in another Sherman. But the 2nd sherman disabled due to secondary effects, I can buy. Do you have a link to that documentary?

The only thing i know a single shell from Sturmtiger destroyed 3 Shermans well its a tiger anyway.

Last edited by PzIVf3; 2009-04-26 at 01:52. Reason: I forgot to put the pic
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Old 2009-04-26, 03:10   Link #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
The funny thing about this is that they all supposedly have bigger guns. Yet, even with the IS-2/3s later in the war, sporting their gigantic 122mm, they were still out-ranged by the Panther and outgunned by its 75mm high velocity.
- Tak
Nonsense the 75mm was an exceptional weapon for it's class, but it wasn't even in the same league as the 122mm which bested it in all areas of ballistics, the long barreled 88 was closer but still only about a match in terms of anti-armor performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
This is a testament of Sherman crews who encountered Tigers mentioning how a Tiger knocked his tank out as well as the one next to him.
Yeah I mean it's not like it could have been say you know TWO shots or something, no clearly it's far more likely that despite all logic and common sense a shell somehow didn't blow itself apart on impact and tore though an entire tank and then another one.

Quote:
This was an interview done on television and documentaries. Don't tell me its hogwash, get some balls and go tell the folks who survived the experience that its hogwash.
I'll tell him to his face it's bullshit if he acutally claims what you're claiming because simple math and physics says so.

Learn something about ballistics and how they work then come back.

Quote:
I don't see what your uh, hogwash, has to do with his outstanding skills as a Tiger commander, nor do I see how this relates to a fucking video game. I think he knows much, much better than you ever will in your compacted lifespan that life is not a video game (never mind that there wasn't any back in his day), and he had fought in a war to prove it.
Someone mentioned a Tiger pwning everything in a video game and then someone else mentioned how that was unrealistic then you brought up Wittman. Your right he does have nothing to do with it, so why did you bring him up?

Quote:
A Firefly is built to kill Tigers. There may be few, but it has enough firepower to cap a cat. Never mind the fact that his one battalion was ambushed and surrounded by at least half a dozen battle groups, many of which bore a vendetta against him specifically.
So what? Of course he was outnumbered because Germany’s spastic and idiotic industrial policy had assured they'd never be able to produce enough tanks to meet there needs and would always be outnumbered.

Quote:
Your reply is completely irrelevant and extremely pointless as you have utterly missed our previous discussion, where we have noted a tank without an autoloader, without an experienced crew somehow managed to fire two shots in 0.5 seconds as if the turret was a semi-automatic. This has nothing to do with its rate of fire per minute, nor does it have anything to do with whatever naval cannons can do.
Actually Your memory appears to be completely useless and your reading comprehension could use work as well.

Quote:
On the other hand, like JagdPanther noted, you simply can't reload a tank that fast, even with an autoloader.

- Tak
Which I pointed out might not be the case, autoloaders of large caliber able to fire shells at that rate are possible, that was my point. It seems to have totally evaded you though that I was simply correcting a statement you made which was false: that even autoloaders could not produce that speed.

I said nothing about the scene featured in the show or it's feasibility so it's acutally your reply which is useless since you're talking about shit I never even brought up.


Quote:
Right, and the Edelweiss is a real tank and a mass produced piece that we can compare it to the likes of the E-50/75.
No, but it has a finalized design seen in the anime and game which we can make comparisons with. The E-50 on the other hand never assumed a finalized form we can use as a basis for comparison.

Quote:
No.

Just exactly what the hell did you think we have been doing? Speculating!
(no shit). We are speculating which tank resemble the Edelweiss the most.
One was a prototype that was never mass produced, the other also a fictional prototype that was never mass produced, neither went through road or combat tests, but have very similar specs on paper, sure makes plenty of sense to me.
Yes we are speculating and guess what I'm disagreeing your speculation based on the fact you're working from rather suspect data.


Quote:
http://www.panzer-archiv.de/images/d...46/bild220.jpg

You obviously missed that picture. That one has a rather short gun. As for the wheels, we've already discussed plenty on that subject alone. Kindly use the search function.
No I saw it just fine since I read the entire thread and I still say they look very little alike.

Quote:
Lastly, please note that German tank designs in general are an inspiration to the Edelweiss, not a blueprint. Likewise, the Panzer IV acted as an inspiration to the Shamrock, with the latter sporting many configuration differences.
If that's the case trying to compare it to any single tank seems suspect and I'm not sure how true that is anyway as frankly the vehicle has many features that don't look all that German.

Quote:
Then you have no idea what you are talking about. Not least because not many tanks in the era had anything equal to or greater than 85mm (those that do, you can count on your fingers with one hand),
Given that the main battle tanks of all the powers involved could be counted on both hands that's not saying much, after about 1943 pretty much all the new tanks where mounting some kind of cannon in the 90mm range.

Late War Tanks and Tank Destroyers:

M36 Jackson: 90mm Gun
M26 Pershing: 90mm Gun
T-34/85 and SU-85: 85mm Gun
T-44: 85mm Gun
Purposed Replacements for the Panther and Tiger(E series included): 88mm
Ceuntruion Tank: 84mm aka 20 pdr. (completed after the war, but planned fo the tank from the start)

Quote:
never mind the fact that no 85mm gun was ever mounted on a main battle tank in WW2.
And you say I don't know what I'm talking about? That's good for a laugh:
http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/t3485bg_2.html
You Fail World War II Tank Knowledge 101 please consider enrolling in remedial classes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
The funny thing about this is that they all supposedly have bigger guns. Yet, even with the IS-2/3s later in the war, sporting their gigantic 122mm, they were still out-ranged by the Panther and outgunned by its 75mm high velocity.

- Tak
Nonsense the 75mm was an exceptional weapon for it's class, but the 122mm matched it in terms of armor penetration and range easily and it's HE shells where needless to say vastly more effective. (the 88 was also roughly comparable but not really better). Is it impressive the Germans got nearly the same penetration out of a much smaller weapon sure? Does that matter, not really no.
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Old 2009-04-26, 06:04   Link #43
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Jesus are you guys still shitting on?

Fuck me dead.
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Old 2009-04-26, 06:08   Link #44
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It's just because of TK3997, who can't live with the theory that the Edelweiss was possibly inspired by a German Tank model that did not leave prototype phase.
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Old 2009-04-26, 06:14   Link #45
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Regardless if it's based off a concept or not it's still going to be the same bloody tank whether you like it or not and I for one love the design of it.

Instead of trying to compare everything from the game, manga and anime to real life, why not just try appreciating it in it's own universe.
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Old 2009-04-26, 09:20   Link #46
Tak
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
What is hogwash is the idea of one round going in one Sherman and coming out of it to blow a hole in another Sherman. But the 2nd sherman disabled due to secondary effects, I can buy. Do you have a link to that documentary?
I said knocked out, I did not say double penetration (fuck, that sounds dirty).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
You do realise that the above statement sounds rather strange when you look up and notice that Mgz was mentioning a CoH mission and then you chimed in "Michael Wittmann" as a response to Mgz.
Because that mission was clearly inspired by the exploits of Michael Wittmann, who in fact, did disabled some 30 vehicles & other military hardware in a span of 15 minutes in Villers-Bocage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
I take it you're not a native english speaker, or that you didn't see the quotation marks around "inferior."
And I take it you did not sense my disagreement? Or you didn't see what I thought about the Firefly and its purpose?

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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
First off, when did this happen? If I know which segment of which episode this took place I can rewatch it and then retime... Aw hell. I'm starting to sound like arkh.
Episode 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Secondly, as regards a naval gun, I refer you to the Bofors L70 40mm gun which is both used as a naval gun and on the CV90 AFV. It can do 4-round burst. (Slight OT, but just wanted to point out 4-round burst).
Why are you talking to me about naval guns? I think I stated pretty clear in my last post that I don't give a shit about them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Also, Tak, be advised: the navy doesn't call them cannon - it's gun. It could be 16 inches and it's still called a gun.
I don't care what they are called, they weren't the focus of the discussion anyway. It was Tk3997 who brought them up out of nowhere and called them cannons. If you have a problem with his use of incorrect nomenclature, please complain to him. As for me, I never wanted to talk about this naval gun/cannon comparison bullshit in the first place. We were talking about tank weapons, not naval ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
As for the rifles, I'm actually surprised they have semiauto battle rifles. I was expecting them to still start out with bolt-action. The Lee-Enfield and Kar98k were good bolt action rifles of the time...
While Valkyria is clearly inspired by the era that is World War II, it did not use the era as a blue print, and that we are playing a game where supernatural powers and magical fuel sources are acceptable.

- Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2009-04-26 at 09:50.
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Old 2009-04-26, 09:28   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Father Hentai View Post
It's just because of TK3997, who can't live with the theory that the Edelweiss was possibly inspired by a German Tank model that did not leave prototype phase.
Aren't you sure it's not the other way around? In that YOU are the person who cannot live without the THEORY that Edelweiss is possibly inspired by a German tank model that never made it to prototype stage.

Prototype means first type; the first example of a new design that will be used to refine the design for mass production - for instance the XM1, the YF-22 and YF-23, X-32 and X-35.
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Originally Posted by fallschirmjager View Post
Regardless if it's based off a concept or not it's still going to be the same bloody tank whether you like it or not and I for one love the design of it.

Instead of trying to compare everything from the game, manga and anime to real life, why not just try appreciating it in it's own universe.
*shrug* because certain quarters feel the need to stamp their national pride on the anime. Mind you it's not helped by the fascination Japan has long held with Germany.

Though to be fair, German tanks in WW2 were pimpin'. And they had some good doctrine. The problem was that German engineers overengineered each tank making them expensive and complicated to maintain, and changed the production lines each time a new model was made, so that there was absolutely NO economy of scale and interchangeability of parts. (Unlike say the F-35, which has 75% parts commonality between the A, B and C variants, or the Super Hornet, which has 80% parts commonality with earlier Hornets).
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Old 2009-04-26, 09:37   Link #48
Tak
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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Someone mentioned a Tiger pwning everything in a video game and then someone else mentioned how that was unrealistic then you brought up Wittman. Your right he does have nothing to do with it, so why did you bring him up?
Ran a raid for 15 minutes, ended with 30 military hardware pieces destroyed. Sounds like a particular CoH mission?

But, your utterly demeaning statement of Wittmann learning life is not a video game that got my nerves. What does his exploits have to do with learning life is not a video game? Please tell me? Sorry kid, he will never need you to tell him that life is not a video game. He knows it way better than you will ever do.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Which I pointed out might not be the case, autoloaders of large caliber able to fire shells at that rate are possible, that was my point. It seems to have totally evaded you though that I was simply correcting a statement you made which was false: that even autoloaders could not produce that speed.
Then you tell me which gun comparable to the Edelweiss' caliber today can fire two rounds in a span of 0.5 seconds? With or without an autoloader? Right, I didn't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
I said nothing about the scene featured in the show or it's feasibility so it's acutally your reply which is useless since you're talking about shit I never even brought up.
Then why bother replying at all? We were discussing the scene specifically, we were discussing this show specifically in relation to possible comparisons, if you are here to bring up facts (like naval weapons) of the day, do somewhere else where people care.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
No, but it has a finalized design seen in the anime and game which we can make comparisons with. The E-50 on the other hand never assumed a finalized form we can use as a basis for comparison.
Yeah, and Edelweiss is so real that we can really compare the two beyond paper. Right.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Yes we are speculating and guess what I'm disagreeing your speculation based on the fact you're working from rather suspect data.
And Edelweiss is a result of a rather suspect data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Given that the main battle tanks of all the powers involved could be counted on both hands that's not saying much, after about 1943 pretty much all the new tanks where mounting some kind of cannon in the 90mm range.


Late War Tanks and Tank Destroyers:

M36 Jackson: 90mm Gun
M26 Pershing: 90mm Gun
T-34/85 and SU-85: 85mm Gun
T-44: 85mm Gun
I specifically mentioned main battle tanks, not tank destroyers. If you want to include TDs as well, I can easily list Jagdtiger as a contender, seeing how it had probably the biggest gun ever mounted on a mobile land platform at the time.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
And you say I don't know what I'm talking about? That's good for a laugh:
http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/t3485bg_2.html
You Fail World War II Tank Knowledge 101 please consider enrolling in remedial classes.
Yes, I missed it and realized it before it was too late. But hey, I admit my mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Nonsense the 75mm was an exceptional weapon for it's class, but the 122mm matched it in terms of armor penetration and range easily and it's HE shells where needless to say vastly more effective. (the 88 was also roughly comparable but not really better). Is it impressive the Germans got nearly the same penetration out of a much smaller weapon sure? Does that matter, not really no.
Outranged by the 75 because German panthers were disabling them at maximum range, outgunned because there were more panthers than IS3s.

Sure, in theory, the 122mm sounded great, fine and dandy, but if the Panther is fighting it on equal terms, then having a 122mm might not matter all that much. So does it matter, yes, yes it does. It simply goes to show that bigger is not always better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Aren't you sure it's not the other way around? In that YOU are the person who cannot live without the THEORY that Edelweiss is possibly inspired by a German tank model that never made it to prototype stage.

Prototype means first type; the first example of a new design that will be used to refine the design for mass production - for instance the XM1, the YF-22 and YF-23, X-32 and X-35.
Correction, the German E-series did make it to prototype stage, but like the Edelweiss, it was sitting in a garage and never produced as the war came to an end.

And the Edelweiss was exactly that, a Prototype that was not tested nor produced in numbers greater than 1.

- Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2009-04-26 at 09:52.
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Old 2009-04-26, 10:24   Link #49
Wild Goose
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
I said knocked out, I did not say double penetration (fuck, that sounds dirty).
Well then, elaborate further when you make statements, Tak. You were inplying double penetration. (And yes, the does sound dirty. )

Quote:
And I take it you did not sense my disagreement? Or you didn't see what I thought about the Firefly and its purpose?
No, I take it you didn't realise that the quotation marks around "inferior" meant that TK was being sarcastic.

Quote:
Episode 2.
Time in minutes and seconds, please; failing that, the scene in question. And suspension of disbelief means we must accept everything on screen as real.

Lol, I sound like arkh now. I'd better stop.

Quote:
Why are you talking to me about naval guns? I think I stated pretty clear in my last episode that I don't give a shit about them.
You don't give a shit about them, true - but at least, if you're wanting to look a bit more credible, you'll use the correct terminology, no? Besides, take a look at this:
Spoiler for CV9040:

This is the Swedish CV9040 IFV using the Bofors 40mm L70 gun. Naval guns, of up to 127mm caliber, can do similar rates of fire (it's said the 127mm gun on the Kongo and Atago-class Aegis DDGs can do 6-round burst). It can be done with a 40mm. It's only a matter of time before they do it with a 120mm tank gun.

Quote:
I don't care what they are called, they weren't the focus of the discussion anyway. It was Tk3997 who brought them up out of nowhere and called them cannons. If you have a problem with his use of incorrect nomenclature, please complain to him. As for me, I never wanted to talk about this naval gun/cannon comparison bullshit in the first place. We were talking about tank weapons, not naval ones.
The point that was being made, which you seem to have ignored and forgotten, was that you were saying that that ROF was impossible, even for a tank gun with autoloader. TK then pointed out that naval guns can do that rate of fire. I pointed out that the Bofors 40mm can also do a similar ROF, which you ignored, throwing out your excuse that it's a naval gun, not a tank gun.

So I'll point you to the youtube vids above of the CV9040 in action. That's 40mm. And while the CV9040 is a "mere" IFV, the upscaling potential is obvious and logical. It's only a matter of time before someone makes 90mm and then 120mm rapidfire tank guns.

Quote:
While Valkyria is clearly inspired by the era that is World War II, it did not use the era as a blue print, and that we are playing a game where supernatural powers and magical fuel sources are acceptable.
I'm aware of that. It's just that in most tech levels you start out with bolt-action, then go to semiauto, then burst, then full auto. Skipping the initial start point just causes a raised eyebrow on my part.

*shrugs* Oh well. This just makes my VC/Nanoha crossover more viable. *cackles with glee*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Correction, the German E-series did make it to prototype stage, but like the Edelweiss, it was sitting in a garage and never produced as the war came to an end.
Indeed? Oh well, more power to it, then.

Quote:
And the Edelweiss was exactly that, a Prototype that was not tested nor produced in numbers greater than 1.
It's kinda hard to be a prototype when you don't exactly do testing... it's more of a proof of concept. A real prototype gets put through its paces and tested (and will eventually number more than 1 - the two YF-22 prototypes, for instance, or the early 6 Tomcat prototypes used to test different aspects of the Tomcat package).

But yes, I'm rather surprised myself at this first statement I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Mind you, in the end this is all untimately pointless;full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
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Old 2009-04-26, 10:38   Link #50
Tak
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
No, I take it you didn't realise that the quotation marks around "inferior" meant that TK was being sarcastic.
I took it as his insult to the man.

But, over the internet, its hard to tell, isn't it. I'd wait for him to clear up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
This is the Swedish CV9040 IFV using the Bofors 40mm L70 gun. Naval guns, of up to 127mm caliber, can do similar rates of fire (it's said the 127mm gun on the Kongo and Atago-class Aegis DDGs can do 6-round burst). It can be done with a 40mm. It's only a matter of time before they do it with a 120mm tank gun.
Come now, Edelweiss is a land platform that we are talking about, in an era I assume to be before the advent of autoloaders. Again, even modern battle-tank autoloaders cannot reload shells and fire at 0.5 seconds, that was the discussion. I don't know where the hell naval guns came to play, it was unexpected and unneeded, for it does not prove that tanks can fire that fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
The point that was being made, which you seem to have ignored and forgotten, was that you were saying that that ROF was impossible, even for a tank gun with autoloader. TK then pointed out that naval guns can do that rate of fire. I pointed out that the Bofors 40mm can also do a similar ROF, which you ignored, throwing out your excuse that it's a naval gun, not a tank gun.
Again, we are talking about tank weapons, not naval or gee, AA weapons. We were specifically talking about tanks, I don't see why naval guns, with their advantage in space, is comparable to the likes of a cramped land platform.

The Bofors 40mm on the other hand, is a AA gun. If it doesn't fire fast, then well

Now, do I not believe that naval weapons can access a higher rate of fire? Absolutely not. However, to me, comparing naval weaponry to that of tank weaponry with obvious glaring disparity in associated hardware seems to be an exercise of comparing apples to grapes.

- Tak
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Old 2009-04-26, 10:46   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Come now, Edelweiss is a land platform that we are talking about, in an era I assume to be before the advent of autoloaders. Again, even modern battle-tank autoloaders cannot reload shells and fire at 0.5 seconds, that was the discussion. I don't know where the hell naval guns came to play, it was unexpected and unneeded.
Well, the way you were going on, it was like you were saying that 0.5 seconds was impossible even with an autoloader. Thus the mentions of rapidfire naval guns.

Quote:
Again, we are talking about tank weapons, not naval or gee, AA weapons. We were specifically talking about tanks, I don't see why naval guns, with their advantage in space, is comparable to the likes of a cramped land platform.

The Bofors 40mm on the other hand, is a AA gun. If it doesn't fire fast, then well

- Tak
I'm not sure how many times I have to beat you over the head with the fact that my point was that in that cramped, small IFV turret, they can fit an autoloader and ammo capacity and do 4-round burst. Sooner or later someone is going to have the bright idea of upscaling it further.

Also, the Bofors 40mm is an AA gun by its rate of fire and ammo. Swap the appropriate ammo in and it's configured for land combat. (I dare you to tell me that any of the ammo types shown in that demo vid are AA rounds.)
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Old 2009-04-26, 20:16   Link #52
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I seen now any modern MBT western tank has no autoloader and the russian was the first introduced the autoloader but somehow remove it maybe there is a major disadvantage of the autoloader what if its get hit and disable there's is no possible can fix it right away with cost and maintenance.
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Old 2009-04-26, 20:48   Link #53
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Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
I seen now any modern MBT western tank has no autoloader and the russian was the first introduced the autoloader but somehow remove it maybe there is a major disadvantage of the autoloader what if its get hit and disable there's is no possible can fix it right away with cost and maintenance.
Thats the gists of a autoloader, if it gets damage its gonna take time to fix it. and time usually isn't a luxury in combat.

hehe I still kinda think about the Edel as a modern day MBT thats been taken back to a WWII era war to kick arse

I mentioned before that a Challenger II comes to mind, not that I'm making any real or accurate comparison just saying. All thats needed is the Edel to have its own BV and they we go
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Old 2009-04-26, 23:59   Link #54
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Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
I seen now any modern MBT western tank has no autoloader and the russian was the first introduced the autoloader but somehow remove it maybe there is a major disadvantage of the autoloader what if its get hit and disable there's is no possible can fix it right away with cost and maintenance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonta Kun View Post
Thats the gists of a autoloader, if it gets damage its gonna take time to fix it. and time usually isn't a luxury in combat.

hehe I still kinda think about the Edel as a modern day MBT thats been taken back to a WWII era war to kick arse

I mentioned before that a Challenger II comes to mind, not that I'm making any real or accurate comparison just saying. All thats needed is the Edel to have its own BV and they we go
Good points, but IMO they're moot: any damage the tank is going to take that would affect the autoloader would undoubtedly also kill the tank, being that the autoloader is protected by the turret armor.
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Old 2009-04-27, 00:10   Link #55
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the primary advantage of having an autoloader is only needing a 3 man crew for a tank

autoloaders on modern tanks are not really faster than a human loader

having a fourth pair of hands has other uses as well, especially when you need to fix something
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Old 2009-04-27, 01:06   Link #56
Father Hentai
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Just found a vid how autoloaders work in todays war technology:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ijgn...eature=related

The Edelweiss autoloader could maybe be like the one of the Japanese T-90. But to reach a shooting frequency of 2 rounds in 0,5 sec you need an ammo feed charge of a machine gun.

But if I look exactly they work I somehow foresee where the malfunctions will occur...
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Last edited by Father Hentai; 2009-04-27 at 02:30.
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Old 2009-04-27, 11:06   Link #57
servidor
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Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
I seen now any modern MBT western tank has no autoloader and the russian was the first introduced the autoloader but somehow remove it maybe there is a major disadvantage of the autoloader what if its get hit and disable there's is no possible can fix it right away with cost and maintenance.
I remember a tv show where they said that the mayor issue with autoloaders in soviet tanks was the frecuency of accidents to the crew. Soviets weren't really mindful of security of the crews.
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Old 2009-04-28, 06:00   Link #58
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Originally Posted by fallschirmjager View Post
Regardless if it's based off a concept or not it's still going to be the same bloody tank whether you like it or not and I for one love the design of it.

Instead of trying to compare everything from the game, manga and anime to real life, why not just try appreciating it in it's own universe.
Agreed. Some people need to lighten up a bit.

Anyhow, I see elements of the Panther, King Tiger and Panzer III in the design for the Edelweiss with some artistic license thrown in for good measure. I reckon it's about the same level as a Panther, which was a pretty good tank for its time. The steering wheel inside Edelweiss is a pretty neat touch too. The Tiger IE was one of the first tanks that could be driven like a car (albeit a ridiculously huge one).

As another reference to a single tank soloing multiple tanks, look up Ernst Barkmann, and the action known as Barkmann's Corner. It's quite possible to engage multiple tanks given sufficiently good concealment and surrounding terrain to prevent the enemy from outmanoeuvring you. I believe Barkmann is still alive today.
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Old 2009-04-28, 08:53   Link #59
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As mentioned before, there's also 73 Easting, where 9 Abrams and 12 Bradleys soloed an entire T-72 brigade. Although vastly outnumbered, the American forces under then-captain H.R. McMaster (he was recently promoted to Brigadier General) decimated the Iraqis.
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Old 2009-04-28, 16:51   Link #60
Father Hentai
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Originally Posted by jwai View Post
Anyhow, I see elements of the Panther, King Tiger and Panzer III in the design for the Edelweiss with some artistic license thrown in for good measure. I reckon it's about the same level as a Panther, which was a pretty good tank for its time. The steering wheel inside Edelweiss is a pretty neat touch too. The Tiger IE was one of the first tanks that could be driven like a car (albeit a ridiculously huge one).
Seriously, did you ever read what Tak wrote about the E-50 Series? It's exact that what's behind the E-50 Prototype.
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