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Old 2009-04-26, 23:30   Link #1061
C.A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
How Eva turned out had a lot to do with Anno being depressed. It's not difficult to imagine that a character added in a remake done 15 years later may turn out pretty different from the original ones.
His depression may not be the peak of his creativity, as happy Tomino has showed that he could do beautiful stories with great endings. He can even do away with his 'Kill em all' title.

I'm sure Anno is not suffering from depression anymore and he can still do a good story.

Even in 1.0, we can see that the story has changed for a more positive direction. The part where Shinji receives a recording of his classmates from Misato, which encouraged him and made him realise that he has a purpose and responsibility as an EVA pilot. This part was not in the original anime, this little bit could help Shinji develop into a stronger and more positive character.
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Old 2009-04-26, 23:42   Link #1062
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Quote:
This part was not in the original anime, this little bit could help Shinji develop into a stronger and more positive character.
...which is exactly my point.

What made Eva good, or at least made it stand out, was the fact that, for once, the archetypal mecha-riding teenager hero wasn't so archetypal anymore--he was entirely different from the classic mecha heroes, which were mostly tools for the world to straighten itself out. This time, it was Shinji against the world--and he wins. The whiny part of Shinji made him unique. Turning him into a positive character with a typical "growing up" development circle would make him cliché.
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Old 2009-04-27, 00:03   Link #1063
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I think that is even more simple than that... Shinji isnt an archetypical mecha pilot, because an Eva ISNT A MECHA. Evangelion also isnt a classic mecha series, because from the start evas arent mechas... Eva itself broke a lot of paradigms settled by Gundam or Macross, that's why you can't measure eva that way.

Shinji can be hated, but, he was an innovation to anime, that's why Evangelion is transsgresor.

Now, i'm totally agree with C.A. about Shinji in this movie... and i cant forget Anno's words about that in 15 years there is nothing as original as Evangelion... and he is damn right, even now Anno has the talent to make something like Evangelion somewhat original... this "new" Shinji is a proof.
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Old 2009-04-27, 00:04   Link #1064
C.A.
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
...which is exactly my point.

What made Eva good, or at least made it stand out, was the fact that, for once, the archetypal mecha-riding teenager hero wasn't so archetypal anymore--he was entirely different from the classic mecha heroes, which were mostly tools for the world to straighten itself out. This time, it was Shinji against the world--and he wins. The whiny part of Shinji made him unique. Turning him into a positive character with a typical "growing up" development circle would make him cliché.
Before Shinji was Cosmo of Ideon and Kappei of Zambot 3, Evangelion itself was inspired by Ideon, Anno loves Ideon. Ideon and Zambot 3 were 2 of the most infamous tragic mecha anime, mainly because its Tomino. Main characters see friends around them die, young and old all with gruesome deaths and in the end, a Kill em' all ending. There's also Baldios, which ended with all humans on Earth killed and the main character can only watch in horror.

The only thing that makes EVA so successful is that it got licensed and broadcast in a time where the west started having more interest in mecha anime and quickly its popularity boomed.

Whether its cliched or not, the word 'cliche' itself is cliche. There's almost nothing on Earth now that's not used before and reused.

This set of movies is turning out to go in a different way, it has to change some parts and produce a totally different ending. Only part one has aired so far, we can't judge whether it will really turn out either way. Its Anno, its Gainax, anything can happen, we may get Shinji to develop into a great character, but then they make everything go to hell in the last 30 minutes of the 4th movie.
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Last edited by C.A.; 2009-04-27 at 18:29.
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Old 2009-04-27, 00:14   Link #1065
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Like I said before, we could get a reboot if the movies do well at the box office. Looks like someone is ready for a re-take on the story.
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Old 2009-04-27, 01:12   Link #1066
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
but then they make everything go to hell in the last 30 minutes of the 4th movie.
I'm totally waiting for this to happen. In fact, I'll be disappointed if it isn't.
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Old 2009-04-27, 02:44   Link #1067
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
...which is exactly my point.

What made Eva good, or at least made it stand out, was the fact that, for once, the archetypal mecha-riding teenager hero wasn't so archetypal anymore--he was entirely different from the classic mecha heroes, which were mostly tools for the world to straighten itself out. This time, it was Shinji against the world--and he wins. The whiny part of Shinji made him unique. Turning him into a positive character with a typical "growing up" development circle would make him cliché.
Gotta agree there. The last thing I wanna see happen in Rebuild is Shinji turning into a Simon.
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Old 2009-04-27, 05:18   Link #1068
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Quote:
Whether its cliched or not, the word 'cliche' itself is cliche. There's almost nothing on Earth now that's not used before and reused.
I'm not denying that, but you still can't tell me generic shounen series are not generic.

There are ways and ways of making art. All of them imply external influence. Not all of them imply originality or innovation.

Personally, if Shinji was made a typical shounen hero this time around, I would feel cheated. I would feel they're telling me the conflicts represented in the original series somehow aren't relevant to humanity anymore. Like we've managed to tread over those hurdles or something.
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Old 2009-04-27, 05:55   Link #1069
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
Gotta agree there. The last thing I wanna see happen in Rebuild is Shinji turning into a Simon.
I wouldn't mind.

But of course it will not happen. Shinji can be a little less whiny(and i hope he will, i already watched the first series and i want the rebuild to be, at least, a little different), but to be an epic hero is too much.
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Old 2009-04-27, 06:25   Link #1070
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Well how about the guy form Raxhephon? In the end he made a choice after a long introspective final....I dont want Shinji to go all spiral power nothing can beat me if I believe...but I dunno... maybe pick option B this time around.
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Old 2009-04-27, 07:02   Link #1071
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I wouldn't mind.
That's like saying you wouldn't mind if Kenshin had been a cold blooded murderer throughout Rurouni Kenshin. It just goes against the point of the show. Not to mention Eva is a show that's actually supposed to be taken seriously, so Shinji becoming a hot-blooded reckless over-the-top one dimensional character would pretty much kill Rebuild.

It will be different, but certainly not in a way that goes against everything the original TV series established and was going for.
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Old 2009-04-27, 09:11   Link #1072
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
That's like saying you wouldn't mind if Kenshin had been a cold blooded murderer throughout Rurouni Kenshin. It just goes against the point of the show. Not to mention Eva is a show that's actually supposed to be taken seriously, so Shinji becoming a hot-blooded reckless over-the-top one dimensional character would pretty much kill Rebuild.

It will be different, but certainly not in a way that goes against everything the original TV series established and was going for.
Well, if it was an alternate version of Rurouni Kenshin, why not? Hehe. I'm not hoping for this to happen, but since is another version, i wouldn't mind if things get a lot different. We've already got several spin-offs in which Shinji is far different. The movie is just a bid budget spin-off of the series, so anything is good to me, as long as it's well done, hehe.

Like i said, it will not happen. Eva is Eva and Gurren Lagann is GL and there's no need to mix this two series. But i'm cheering for Shinji to grown up and at least be a man by the end, before everything goes crazy and everyone gets fucked up.
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Old 2009-04-27, 11:56   Link #1073
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
That's like saying you wouldn't mind if Kenshin had been a cold blooded murderer throughout Rurouni Kenshin. It just goes against the point of the show. Not to mention Eva is a show that's actually supposed to be taken seriously, so Shinji becoming a hot-blooded reckless over-the-top one dimensional character would pretty much kill Rebuild.

It will be different, but certainly not in a way that goes against everything the original TV series established and was going for.
Well part of the title is "rebulid" so Shinji is less whiny more extroverted and does things differently with similar results. Maybe the genetic memory from the previous Shinji is affecting him this time.

You know like...

"Hey bro you didn't spend enough time with the blue-haired chick last time. Gotta make up for not enough floor time this time around."
"Asuka, bad news. Stay away from her."
"Misato, great kisser. Spend more time with her."
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Old 2009-04-27, 13:43   Link #1074
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Yeah, if you like the old Shinji then watch the series. It's still there. This is getting almost tedious as the Fullmetal Alchemist arguments.
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Old 2009-04-27, 14:23   Link #1075
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It is possible for a character to grow and yet still have a number of complex emotional issues, yes? Shinji from the original was a pretty messed up kid with a lot of things wrong in his life. Righting a couple of those wrongs may yield a similar end-character who would make a different choice.
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Old 2009-04-27, 14:36   Link #1076
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For all the Shinji-bashing out there, there can't be many characters who have inspired as much impassioned debate. That has to count for something.
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Old 2009-04-27, 17:16   Link #1077
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Just a quick question (and I'm sorry to sort of derail the topic here): has the "possible sequel" theory been completely debunked or something?
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Old 2009-04-27, 19:02   Link #1078
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Just a quick question (and I'm sorry to sort of derail the topic here): has the "possible sequel" theory been completely debunked or something?
If do you mean that this movies happen "after" the original anime, at this point... i think is too early to be 100% secure about that.
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Old 2009-04-27, 19:21   Link #1079
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Yeah, if you like the old Shinji then watch the series. It's still there. This is getting almost tedious as the Fullmetal Alchemist arguments.
Yes I would know. But I'm afraid there's a difference between getting a somewhat different version of Shinji and getting a Simon, aka the complete opposite, which would pretty much make him lose all the appeal as a character he had going for him.

The manga already tried to make Shinji less whiny and more likeable to the general public, and though I prefered his anime self, I was able to enjoy it.

Gets me wondering if Rebuild is gonna take any ideas from the manga. It'd be cool if they animated Kaji's backstory for example, though I doubt it.
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Old 2009-04-27, 19:22   Link #1080
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Just a quick question (and I'm sorry to sort of derail the topic here): has the "possible sequel" theory been completely debunked or something?


The water is red. The names have changed. A new pilot is there. It's a sequel imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
Yes I would know. But I'm afraid there's a difference between getting a somewhat different version of Shinji and getting a Simon, aka the complete opposite, which would pretty much make him lose all the appeal as a character he had going for him.

The manga already tried to make Shinji less whiny and more likeable to the general public, and though I prefered his anime self, I was able to enjoy it.

Gets me wondering if Rebuild is gonna take any ideas from the manga. It'd be cool if they animated Kaji's backstory for example, though I doubt it.
Ah but a little bit of Simon popped out at the end of movie 1. He's bound to evolve differently this time around. Hopefuly, he continues to make good choices.
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