07-GHOST anime

[Kirvee]

I wasn't calling "hints of" a category O_o. This series, for me, has no category until a word is made to claim it's both shounen and shoujo. I'm saying that despite it's questionable category, I see hints of BL, and that in itself makes me happy, especially because I can tell that this manga hints more so than other series and BL pairings I like do.

Also, I wasn't referring to you being homophobic, I was referring to Cheesie.

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by Kirvee

Also, I wasn't referring to you being homophobic, I was referring to Cheesie.

I should, and Natsuki can back this up, be the last person you should refer to as homophobic.

Although Loveless isn't primarily a yaoi/BL series, the label is firmly attached on anyway as the bulk of the story is firmly supported by the two men's relationship. 07-Ghost, on the other hand, is in a completely different league. A more accurate assessment of these 'hints' of 07-ghost would be fanservice, if going by fandoms' definition, and, by default, as 11strikes puts it, it's only there if you want it to be. The claim that two men wake up naked together in bed sounds more scandalous and overblown, when it's really largely innocent if taken into context, much like most of the other scenes. Unless it becomes distracting, or becomes a validated theme in the plot, then it's mild, meaningless, and in good fun. Personally, I get a kick out of seeing men here squirm at the slightest display of these friendships, as yes, friendships do exist between men...

It either is or it isn't. "Hints of" is not a category unless you're in fujoshi-mode.

I wouldn't phrase it that way, but that's the basic idea.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by Kirvee

Also, I wasn't referring to you being homophobic, I was referring to Cheesie.

... Uh... WHAT?! Cheesie, the delusional yaoi fangirl who declares herself as a Queen, which effectively got shot down by her mates a homophobic?

...

Certainly, miss, you are gravely mistaken. She watches Ai no Kusabi, for your information, fangirled and ranted to me about some canon BL or slash pairings at the same time and still trying to convert me into watching and reading some of yaoi mangas or converting me out of Mikage/Teito to... Other better pairings, in her opinions. (To cheesie: I'm still supporting Mikage, even though my favourite has shifted greatly What can you do to a shameless fangirl that shipped 3Ps rather crazily? XD)

And she did write that she has been reading 99% of yaoi genre... Which is still a failure she made because she never touches any BL games now

What she meant is that the subtext doesn't exist-it's just what we define as hints i.e. none existing subtext that can be magnified if we got the right imagination. BL elements doesn't really exist in 07-Ghost, but 'close' male relationship (Read: Non-romantical... As of now) that will lead into developments of characters do exist. This is what the manga or anime watcher who claim that there is a BL elements in the series fails to realize, that these BL elements are actually only accidental hints and relationships that got exaggerated by unfortunately us yaoi fangirls.

But that aside, no one is certainly forbiding others to slash the characters of course, as long as they find the interactions interesting. This, though, doesn't make the BL element exist, since the materials we are using to slash the characters only exist in our own viewpoint of interpretation. (Although with the author being a former yaoi doujinka, we do see more... Accidental hints to be sure ) Unless someone certainly declared love or have explicit (not hinted) kissing scene to same gender, I see no point in labelling this series as BL

EDIT: Oh, cheesie has already pointed her un-homophobic-ness I see~ XD

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga

converting me out of Mikage/Teito to... Other better pairings, in her opinions. (To cheesie: I'm still supporting Mikage, even though my favourite has shifted greatly What can you do to a shameless fangirl that shipped 3Ps rather crazily? XD)

Natsu, oddly enough, I don't really support any pairings here in the series, so I certainly don't remember trying to convert you. I do remember ragging on about Mikage, although I suppose I should shift most of the tirade to the writers. But that's another story entirely, and I'm watching this show for the action and Frau alone anyway, as the man is made of good stuff.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by cheesie

Natsu, oddly enough, I don't really support any pairings here in the series, so I certainly don't remember trying to convert you. I do remember ragging on about Mikage, although I suppose I should shift most of the tirade to the writers. But that's another story entirely, and I'm watching this show for the action and Frau alone anyway, as the man is made of good stuff.

Indeed, you are trying to make Mikage get out of my list of slash pairings with the rants, which to me translated a bit to converting me out of Mikage pairings Seems like I kind of forgotten that you only fangirled about Frau, not any pairings in particular when I typed that comment. (That and my misconception that you are secretly trying to convert me into FrauxTeito when you fangirled about Frau. Gotta be careful later when I come to IRC~)

(Though it's a rarity that you do not support any pairings when Frau is being an awesome man... But I can of understand it with Labrador being my favourite of the trio but I never paired him off with anyone XD)

[Westlo]

lol @ cheesie being homophobic.

Originally Posted by cheesie

Natsu, oddly enough, I don't really support any pairings here in the series,

Weren't you a big fan of "that" pairing? You know which one :EE

[Irkalla]

Originally Posted by fertygo

can i claim this one ?

Well stay with manga plot maybe not wise decision too, because this anime only planned for 26 episode.
I hope for this series follow the plot of manga too, but if not, i can always switch to the manga

Of course, go ahead ^o^

Well, I'm at least hoping for them to present us as much manga material as possible. But since the manga is ongoing it will probably have an anime ending..Unless the series gets really popular and calls in for a second season. (which would be awesome)

[Kirvee]

@Cheesie: Sorry, but in your previous post it sounded like you were pretty much saying that anything to do with BL or yaoi is bad and that you don't like it. That's how I read it, anyway.

@Natsu:

Spoiler for for manga:

And Mikage's "I love you" to Teito doesn't count.....how?

Then again, I don't know what the actual japanese phrase was that he said. I'm waiting for the anime to tell me, but if it was "aishiteru", I think that pretty much screams a love confession.

[11strikes]

I don't think anyone who willingly follows this series is really homophobic. It's probably a good idea to try and read more carefully into the nuances of a person's phrasing before putting words in her mouth. I'm not attacking anyone here - just wanting to clear things up a bit.

Asserting that 07 Ghost is not a BL series is not a sign of homophobia. It's a categorical thing. For example, I don't think Coca Cola counts as a dairy product. This has no bearing whatsoever on how I actually feel about dairy products in general. Makes sense, right?

Some informal references, in case anyone is interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genre
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...e.php?id=10468

You don't have to agree with Anime News Network's classifications, but I do think they tend to be pretty spot-on. Readers and viewers are free to speculate, but after a certain point, there's really no point to it. I'd want move onto another subject, like... "Why is Frau such a hot character... with such a @#$% godawful name?"

XDDD

[orion]

Originally Posted by 11strikes

"Why is Frau such a hot character... with such a @#$% godawful name?"

XDDD

Okay...

A tall, smart, sensitive blond with an attitude. The name prob contributed to him getting the attitude part.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by Kirvee

@Natsu:

Spoiler for for manga:

And Mikage's "I love you" to Teito doesn't count.....how?

Then again, I don't know what the actual japanese phrase was that he said. I'm waiting for the anime to tell me, but if it was "aishiteru", I think that pretty much screams a love confession.

Spoiler for tl;dr, Manga again:

Can you point me out from which chapter is it? I haven't touched the earlier volumes for quite a long time ^ ^;

But to touch on the translation, there is no way to do it unless it is "aishiteru". (That or the varying statement with "suki". Most probably not though.) But then again, this expression is widely used for a lot of expression of love. You wouldn't think that when a father said this to his child that means romantical love, wouldn't you? Love itself is defined not only as romantical. It also defines a sense of caring for an important person that sometimes cannot be defined by "like" only, seeing the feeling is stronger than "like" (And oh so of course, is the reason why "love" has been debated in shippings like, iunno, years? And it's also a popular subject to be expanded in a lot of mangas or novels or anything, be it the romantical one or the other form ).

Not all the things that is defined as love (and while at it, let's say, "confessing" love) is always romantic. Mikage's 'confession', to me, as much as my fangirl's heart is calling for "canon love confession!!", will have to stay as a different level of caring to a person. Not romantically, but more onto the sense of immense care and gratitude at the same time You can say it as, more than best friend, but definitely not lovers... Or what mangakas love to dub (and hide, cough) as "Important Person" a.k.a "大切な人", which is very evident in how Teito thinks of Mikage, no? And it's not like Mikage has errr... Hidden intention to do to Teito (well, on canon path. Don't ask me to speculate with my evil fangirl heart, I beg you! ) anyway. Their friendship is just like that, if you consider all the events that has been happening to them up to Mikage's "death" ^_^;

But of course, this is debateable when it is serialized in Zero-Sum (which happens to be a nest of doujinkas turn into mangakas) and Yukimachiya release an ofiicial doujinshi (or fanbook) touching upon the relationship between Mikage and Teito specifically. Indeed, they love to twist our mind like that But again, the fanbook doesn't really give off romantical vibe to me when my goggles were put off. :'D

... I think I get a deja vu on Macross F with this though O_o; But then again, the context can always be different on different situations It's better to take account on various events that has been leading into the so-called confession, and not just declare it as declaration of (romantic) love. Actually I should rephrase my statement back with this one though ^ ^

Speaking about the manga, I must retract my statements of this one doesn't have furiganas after seeing that the scan of the Raws I get from P2P is actually Chinese which got labeled as Japanese >_>; I just did a double-take on my denseness of not seeing the difference even though I just see one page of it, should be more trusting to my memory when I remembered that I can compare the Raw with the translation of the recent chapter quite fast...

*sigh* I'm not loving how fast I forgot things these days Busy activities=FAILURE D: So sorry for the confusion again :/

Originally Posted by 11strikes

I'd want move onto another subject, like... "Why is Frau such a hot character... with such a @#$% godawful name?"

XDDD

At least it's better than Labrador... Which makes me think of a dog, of all things...

[Kirvee]

@Natsu:

Spoiler for manga stuff:

I can't tell the specific chapter but I know it's in one of the very first chapters, I believe Volume 1 though it may be in Volume 2. It was right before Ayanami took complete control of Mikage and "Teito, I love you." were the last words he got out before Ayanami essentially mind raped him.

Don't you just love all the "important person" stuff that happens? Not only in this manga but in other manga too. Fans can dream though, I'm merely expressing my dreams (I only support this couple until he dies, after that Hakuren is his replacement).

I had a conversation with the someone about the words they'll use in the anime for that scene. I know "aishiteru" can be used for many different kinds of love, romantic included, but I told her that if he says "aishiteru" in the anime I'll be happy because it'll still be implying a deeper relationship than if he just says "suki da yo" (like Soubi said to Ritsuka, which was one of the reasons Loveless pissed me off after that cause Soubi wasn't serious, "aishiteru" is at least serious).

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by Kirvee

@Natsu:

Spoiler for manga stuff:

I can't tell the specific chapter but I know it's in one of the very first chapters, I believe Volume 1 though it may be in Volume 2. It was right before Ayanami took complete control of Mikage and "Teito, I love you." were the last words he got out before Ayanami essentially mind raped him.

Don't you just love all the "important person" stuff that happens? Not only in this manga but in other manga too. Fans can dream though, I'm merely expressing my dreams (I only support this couple until he dies, after that Hakuren is his replacement).

I had a conversation with the someone about the words they'll use in the anime for that scene. I know "aishiteru" can be used for many different kinds of love, romantic included, but I told her that if he says "aishiteru" in the anime I'll be happy because it'll still be implying a deeper relationship than if he just says "suki da yo" (like Soubi said to Ritsuka, which was one of the reasons Loveless pissed me off after that cause Soubi wasn't serious, "aishiteru" is at least serious).

Spoiler for Manga Again:

Ah found it. He actually uses "daisuki dayo". Oh dear, oh dear... And we should stop the manga spoiler here or direct it into the manga thread (if there is) or PM me for further confirmation ^ ^; Wouldn't want to spoil the anime-watchers too much~ (Edit: To confirm, aishiteru is actually generally used for romantic expression of love, but I somehow encountered it used when I read another manga. And the example is that, father-child. My reaction was kind of O_o; though Most usually, aishiteru would refer to romantic, though there are very rare special exceptions for it. Can't remember which manga it's from, but basically a heavy-text one. And it's a pretty old one too EDIT2 (because net just sucks) : I wouldn't want to do a language nitpicking though-just seeing how their relationship grows is always more obvious than it )

Speaking of slash couples, I actually want that Frau scene on kapitel 15 to be animated the best XD Aye FrauxTeito for me, although Ayanami can be considered as another candidate for both Frau and Teito too. (Aye, don't be surprised seeing I actually ship a canon self-cest and homicidal BL relationship xD)

On Loveless, which is a bit OT, that series is actually more onto the mind rape than BL Of course, of course, varying interpretation can be made to Soubi for that.

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Weren't you a big fan of "that" pairing? You know which one :EE

Yes to a darling het pairing - I've almost forgotten about that.

To move the thread away from dangerous spoiler territory, I'd like to propose a discussion about interesting topics like the death gods, or perhaps Frau's deathly combo of being awesome and causing the hearts of men and women everywhere to flutter.

[orion]

Originally Posted by cheesie

To move the thread away from dangerous spoiler territory, I'd like to propose a discussion about interesting topics like the death gods, or perhaps Frau's deathly combo of being awesome and causing the hearts of men and women everywhere to flutter.

That only lasted for one post before. Are you guys sure you can sustain it a bit longer?

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by orion

That only lasted for one post before. Are you guys sure you can sustain it a bit longer?

As long as my fingers don't act up again~ (Which is pretty much a yes for sometime now. I prefer fangirling over my new shiny Drama CD that just delivered 2 hours ago Yusa-san~~)

The fun thing that I need to note though that it seems like no fujoshis females here interested in claiming the bishies. Errr, yet.

And Frau causing men's heart to flutter...? cheesie, leave your inner yaoi imagination in front of the door and stop worshipping Frau too much! (For me though, I'll just wait until someone finally can confirm the 7 Ghosts official romanization. Just figure out how much you hate Engrish. Or Germanized Japanese in this series. )

[11strikes]

Speaking of Frau, I hope the anime gets at least as far as chapter 16. Flashbacks ftw. Without spoiling too much, my favorite lines are, without a doubt:

Spoiler:

BASTIEN: " 'Those who do not walk with me shall never have their souls extoled in eternity.' Do you understand what that means?"

WHOLE CLASS: "Ye~s."

CHIBI FRAU: "Who does that moron think he is?"

[Next panel, flailing CHIBI FRAU pwned to the wall by BASTIEN's staff]

BASTIEN, calmly reading book: "He's God."

But back to the anime: how do you guys feel about the OP and ED? For me, the opening animation is OK, but the whiny violin synth kind of turned me off from the start. XD;; OP sounds like it's trying to be hardcore with the driving e-guitar, but at the same time, e-guitar is mixed down so low the whole song just kind of gives off that mushy, generic j-rock feel, yeah? So, nothing special there, I thought. The ED does a little better, with the pretty choral fills and all that. The slightly extended version at the end of epsiode 3 has a nice mellow intro, calming and atmospheric. I wouldn't mind downloading a full version of this and leaving it on loop.

Any favorite seiyuus make an appearance in this cast for you? Any new favorites? Any character whose voice doesn't really seem to fit so far?

Also, as far as fandom goes: it seems like the most popular "pairings" right now are Mikage/Teito and Frau/Teito. Although there isn't much in the way of fanart or fanfiction, it can be exciting to contribute early on and get established in a fresh fandom. I wonder if anyone here is looking forward to that, or is already hard at work on that crazy, 15000+ multi-chapter AU deathfic. Interestingly, I saw a request for Frau+Castor friendship fic the other day over here at http://community.livejournal.com/fic_on_demand/--that's right, gen. So if any creative people here do tend to shy away from the lovey-lovey stuff, there is still a market in this fandom for you.

[Kirvee]

@11: I'm actually holding the hope that once Hakuren is introduced and established in the anime that the amount of TeitoxHakuren fanfics will spike upward. Because right now, on FF.Net, there are about 22 fics for 07-Ghost, only two of them have anything to do with my OTP and both of those fics are K rated ;-;.

I might just have to contribute a fic....

[11strikes]

Originally Posted by Kirvee

@11: I'm actually holding the hope that once Hakuren is introduced and established in the anime that the amount of TeitoxHakuren fanfics will spike upward. Because right now, on FF.Net, there are about 22 fics for 07-Ghost, only two of them have anything to do with my OTP and both of those fics are K rated ;-;.

I might just have to contribute a fic....

Hahaha, I know what you mean Kirvee. Sigh... I would be more than happy to contribute to that spike myself.

[Deathkillz]

Wow Mikage...he is awesome and possibly the best friend anyone could ever have for not cracking under since extreme situations...too bad it seems like he will be getting it from mr big evil for not coming over to the dark side.
So finally being able to catch up with ep 4, I have to say that this was yet another surprising series to this new season with it being quite an entertaining series to watch. So far I don't get much yaoi vibes from this and neither do I think that it is anything like that other than fan overthinking a bit to much. Still you know, they are bishies ^^'
Surprisingly though, this seems very much like an underrated series for this season which is a shame...as on an enjoyment level, this series is pretty much on par with more popular ones like Regios.

I will be looking forward to more from this series and more from Lazet (who is just damn right adorable! ).