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Old 2009-05-04, 04:06   Link #41
IRJustman
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
I'm guessing firefox is chocking on that many flash players? In Opera I never had a use for such things but you can: 1) press F12 and Disable Plugins, or 2) use FlashBlock of course (blocks silverlight too).
My solution to this one: Don't install Silverfish altogether. No site which has an overriding need for rich media worth its salt (e.g. homestarrunner.com, YouTube) even uses it. In fact, I heard that MLB stopped using Silverfish, but I don't know why offhand.

For everything else, there's AdBlock Plus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechabao View Post
Eh, people are blowing that whole IE8 thing out of proportion. It's not like it stops you from choosing another browser as default anyway.
Perhaps, but changing defaults on you with neither your knowledge nor informed consent is very much NOT COOL. To paraphrase someone from the DHS, though the original context was intellectual property and copyright (specifically, the Sony CD rootkit debacle), "It's your software, but it's NOT your computer."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I routinely install these extensions to Firefox from
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:1

Adblock Plus (I subscribe to EasyList, then add things I want to block over time.)
[...]
DownThemAll (download multiple items from a page in one task)

I'm not sufficiently paranoid to install NoScript, but I know others here use it.
AdBlock Plus is great. I don't know how I could have ever lived without it. However, for me, it's the other way around about NoScript. I'm actually too paranoid to install NoScript. The reasons why are best explained on the AdBlock Plus site via this blog entry and this thread at the NoScript forums.

--Ian.
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Old 2009-05-04, 05:52   Link #42
mechabao
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If people are using the IE8 installer, it says right there under the Express Install Settings: "Make Internet Explorer 8 the default browser." So Microsoft isn't hiding anything at all. I'm not sure if it displays the same thing when upgrading via Windows Update though as I used the standalone installer.

Spoiler for large screenshot:

Last edited by mechabao; 2009-05-04 at 06:47.
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Old 2009-05-04, 07:18   Link #43
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechabao View Post
I'm not sure if it displays the same thing when upgrading via Windows Update though as I used the standalone installer.
Perhaps you should read the article I cited before making claims about things being overblown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PC World article
Sneaky, sneaky Microsoft! When I agreed to install Internet Explorer 8 as part of a recent Windows update, I did not agree to make it my default browser. In fact, I wasn't even asked. [emphasis mine]
Here it is again: http://www.pcworld.com/article/16412...xplorer_8.html

Microsoft knows that many, many computer users are simply incapable of fixing things like a change to the default browser. Perhaps someone else installed Firefox or Opera for them, but now that Windows Update switched them to IE8, they'll just stick with it because they won't know how to switch back.

I'd also suggest that most users will choose the "Express" settings on that screen you included which will also change their default browser. I realize it says in the list of Express settings that IE will become the default, but how many people will actually read that list and think about them? Why shouldn't the default setting be "leave things as they are" rather than making IE be the default?

I've been wondering why Microsoft doesn't think this little trick won't run afoul of the EU's competition regulators.
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Last edited by SeijiSensei; 2009-05-04 at 07:34.
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Old 2009-05-04, 07:23   Link #44
mechabao
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Hmm I'll try and see whether installing IE8 through Windows Update doesn't bring up the first run Setup. BRB with results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Perhaps you should read the article I cited before making claims about things being overblown.



Here it is again: http://www.pcworld.com/article/16412...xplorer_8.html

Microsoft knows that many, many computer users are simply incapable of fixing things like a change to the default browser. Perhaps someone else installed Firefox or Opera for them, but now that Windows Update switched them to IE8, they'll just stick with it because they won't know how to switch back.

I'd also suggest that most users will choose the "Express" settings on that screen you included which will also change their default browser. I realize it says that in the list of those settings, but how many people will actually read that list and think about them? Why shouldn't the default setting be "leave things as they are" rather than making IE be the default?
Whose fault is it then? Microsoft or the users lazy or stupid enough not to read what the installer/first run setup says?

Nevermind. I read the updated article and the guy admits his mistake.

UPDATE:
Installed IE8 via Windows Update. It still didn't set itself as default browser. All those articles crying about IE8 being all sneaky and making itself the default browser are spreading FUD.

Last edited by mechabao; 2009-05-04 at 08:19. Reason: clarified something
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Old 2009-05-04, 13:59   Link #45
IRJustman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechabao View Post
Hmm I'll try and see whether installing IE8 through Windows Update doesn't bring up the first run Setup. BRB with results.



Whose fault is it then? Microsoft or the users lazy or stupid enough not to read what the installer/first run setup says?

Nevermind. I read the updated article and the guy admits his mistake.

UPDATE:
Installed IE8 via Windows Update. It still didn't set itself as default browser. All those articles crying about IE8 being all sneaky and making itself the default browser are spreading FUD.
Those insults are uncalled for. You lose credibility if you do this.

I will test via installing via the installer.

*snapshots his pre-IE8 install of Windows XP in a VirtualBox VM and attempts an installation*

I can definitely confirm that it does not usurp the status of default browser during installation. I opened another application, notably Mozilla Thunderbird, and it opened a link in Firefox like it's supposed to.

During the first run of IE8, it does specifically ask you if you want to set IE8 as your default browser. I told IE8 to leave my system alone. However, it WAS set to usurp control if I didn't make a choice, which I will get to in a bit.

Your point has been made, but I still have a few points of my own to make.

The fact of the matter is that it's still rude to usurp control of which browser is considered "default" if it does so with neither knowledge nor consent. While it is good that IE8's first-run program does offer you the opportunity to tell it which browser should be the default, it is not cool to arbitrarily make the default answer itself. And yes, you do have to pay attention when you're doing this because the option DOES rather blend in, so the quick-clicker will miss it. As such, this can (key word) qualify as "sneaky" or "underhanded".

However, to get this window, at least via the installer I ran, you must consciously run iexplore.exe however you do it (I do it through Start/Run because I told Windows to remove the icons).

The moral of this story:
  • Do NOT run Windows Update fully automatically. That way you can look over which updates Microsoft wants you to install, then selectively refuse to install IE8 if you so choose.
  • Consider running IE8's installer manually. That way you have much more control over the process.
  • If you're a Firefox user and still need IE's rendering engine, consider using IE Tab so you can switch between engines. That way you can install IE and skip actually using IE (via iexplore.exe).

Just because it does work as you said, that's no excuse for you to hurl insults at people.

--Ian, who considers IE8 to be little more than yet another hotfix to be installed...
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Old 2009-05-04, 14:19   Link #46
mechabao
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They're called Express Settings for a reason. Microsoft did its job and listed the things that the Express Settings changes so really how can you blame them? Would paying a little attention to the setup process kill people?

If there are complaints to be made about IE8 they should be about how it utterly fails the Acid 3 web standards test, or how it's slow compared to Opera/Firefox/Chrome, or how slow it is to open new tabs(UPDATE: It's most likely due to Spybot S&D's Immunization), it's listed under Windows Updates instead of Add/Remove Programs in Control Panel etc.

Last edited by mechabao; 2009-05-04 at 16:46.
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Old 2009-05-04, 16:52   Link #47
IRJustman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechabao View Post
They're called Express Settings for a reason. Microsoft did its job and listed the things that the Express Settings changes so really how can you blame them? Would paying a little attention to the setup process kill people?
You're missing my point. Microsoft needs to respect people's systemwide settings when they pick settings to suggest for users.

Yes, I agree that people should pay attention and make choices accordingly (like I did with my VM which I have since reverted to pre-IE8 install). Allowing people the chance to make the choice is good, make no mistake. However, Microsoft really needs to respect how people wish to operate their computers a little more, especially given what was mentioned about their case in Europe where they're essentially getting garroted instead of slapped on the wrist as they are here in the States. Some people really are going to actually treat the software the same way as I regard it, little more than yet another in a VERY long string of security fixes.

--Ian.
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Old 2009-05-04, 17:01   Link #48
mechabao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRJustman View Post
You're missing my point. Microsoft needs to respect people's systemwide settings when they pick settings to suggest for users.

Yes, I agree that people should pay attention and make choices accordingly (like I did with my VM which I have since reverted to pre-IE8 install). Allowing people the chance to make the choice is good, make no mistake. However, Microsoft really needs to respect how people wish to operate their computers a little more, especially given what was mentioned about their case in Europe where they're essentially getting garroted instead of slapped on the wrist as they are here in the States. Some people really are going to actually treat the software the same way as I regard it, little more than yet another in a VERY long string of security fixes.

--Ian.
But they already do that. You know, by giving you the choice of between express install and custom setup. You don't like their presets, then don't use them. It's as simple as that. And it's not like Microsoft is the only one that does this with express settings. Yahoo Messenger is one program that comes to mind. It's express settings installs the Yahoo Toolbar and sets Yahoo as the default search engine but so far I haven't heard people crying about that.

PS
I don't even use IE8 but all the FUD about this that I've seen on the Web is annoying as hell.

Last edited by mechabao; 2009-05-04 at 17:26.
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Old 2009-05-04, 19:29   Link #49
chikorita157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRJustman View Post
You're missing my point. Microsoft needs to respect people's systemwide settings when they pick settings to suggest for users.

Yes, I agree that people should pay attention and make choices accordingly (like I did with my VM which I have since reverted to pre-IE8 install). Allowing people the chance to make the choice is good, make no mistake. However, Microsoft really needs to respect how people wish to operate their computers a little more, especially given what was mentioned about their case in Europe where they're essentially getting garroted instead of slapped on the wrist as they are here in the States. Some people really are going to actually treat the software the same way as I regard it, little more than yet another in a VERY long string of security fixes.

--Ian.
It's seems that people really do need to pay attention when setting any kind of software up.

Well, I have installed IE8 on the system, but I always do a custom setting... If the default browser change, just change it back... it's not really that hard to do... but it's clearly said in Express that it would change it. It's pretty much FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. if nobody seen that term before) like mentioned earlier.

Not only IE does it, but other windows software does it too and you won't realize something else is installed... At least this stuff doesn't happen on Mac OS X and Linux.
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Old 2009-11-20, 17:12   Link #50
felix
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If when using opera you occasionally get the opera torrent dialog or get to choose between it and your default, then try disabling opera's torrent manager (don't forget to save).
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