AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-05-06, 19:08   Link #1481
Valentine
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by izmosmolnar View Post
Regarding Genji and Ronove, there must be some more serious reason why their surname (or given name?) is the same, but I don't really tend to believe they are the same person.
There's a bit on the witches and furniture side in the tips from episode 2 for Genji that says Kinzo had the help of an advanced-level demon when making Genji as furniture. If that was Ronove, it's possible he took the name from there.
Valentine is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 00:14   Link #1482
Northernme
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Sure, that's the reason in the meta-world, or the witch's side of the argument or something, but what I think is that all the meta-world characters actually represent someone or something on the game board. I'm tempted to think Kumasawa is Virgilia, Genji Ronove and so forth, although I doubt it's really quite so easy.
Northernme is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 00:49   Link #1483
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcaz2 View Post
I don't see why Natsuhi's headaches HAVE to mean something more than they're just headaches. I mean, Jessica has asthma, after all.

It could just be her family on her mothers side has a history of medical problems or something.

I mean, it very well COULD mean something, but I don't see why it 'has to'.
Agreed. It's like the debate that Maria is mentally challenged - just because she believes in a friendly witch, especially with her kind of life, does not make her mentally challenged. It also says in the TIPs that Natsuhi has to take care of everything in the house and probably just gets stressed out easily. Not to mention she has Eva breathing down her throat just because Krauss and her (Eva) don't have a good relationship.

I mean if you think Natsuhi is paranoid or depressed because of headaches, you might as well say Krauss is a bad brother because he's defending himself against his greedy siblings or Jessica has lung cancer because of her asthma.

If Ryukushi made every little detail into a huge thing in this game then EVERYONE might as well be impersonating Beatrice in some way.
__________________

Sig by nocco
Marion is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 07:11   Link #1484
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Spoiler for various characters:
__________________


Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2009-05-07 at 07:24.
Jan-Poo is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 07:42   Link #1485
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Spoiler for various characters:
Spoiler for Reply:
__________________

Sig by nocco
Marion is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 07:56   Link #1486
izmosmolnar
At the end of this world
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hungary, Europe
Age: 29
Spoiler for seven sins comparison:
izmosmolnar is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 08:57   Link #1487
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Spoiler for Reply:
Spoiler for sins:
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 09:35   Link #1488
Kitsu
The unlucky one
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
Rudolf=Lust=Asmodeus
also Jessica=Lust=Asmodeus

Did you read about her in the Tips? She wants to fall in love...
Quote:
Jessica: "I also want to fall in love"
*coughcough* xDD That just stood out a little so..yeah...Also Jessica was killed by Lust her "own sin" in the end..just something that came to my mind.

Underaged Characters = 6
But in the end George is just a kid. He isn't allowed to the parents discussion and such. That's why children: 7 !
I once that that "seven" appears quite often.
For example there seven servants we know of.
Genji, Gohda, Kanon, Shannon, Kumawasa, two servants which name I always forget and never appeared because they had their free day.
__________________
Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara
Kitsu is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 09:37   Link #1489
izmosmolnar
At the end of this world
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hungary, Europe
Age: 29
Ok than let me rephrase it .
The "next generation" or "younger generation" (and that includes George too) inside the boardgame (and that excludes the loliwitches) consists 7 people curiously enough. Even though two of them aren't family, they do have romantic relations with one familymember and they can be considered potential spouse/fiance candidate.

If the parralellism between the seven sins and the parents are intentional, then the same number 7 among the "next generation" might mean more than just a coincidence, and it might be feasible to assume, that the seven virtues could have a "representatives" among the younger lads/lasses too.
izmosmolnar is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 09:56   Link #1490
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
You know originally the virtues were four. They added three much later for some sort of reason. So rather than 7 and 7 i tend to think it's 7 and 4. 7 parents 4 sons, 7 stakes 4 siestas.

I'm not convinced by the new generation thing, it's forced, you can see seven everywhere if you look that far. Hell you even count servants that were merely named once to go up to seven! Even though we know there are more than just those seven.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 09:59   Link #1491
Kitsu
The unlucky one
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
But with the sins and the children...There's still a problem...Ange and Maria...maybe Maria does have a sin, but Ange. Ange is a six year old. She is a really young child and children are a symbol of purity.

But well...I just pointed it out. I don't think the number of servants is important or so, I just think it's a pretty funny coincidence
__________________
Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara
Kitsu is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 10:02   Link #1492
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
that's why i think they symbolize the four virtues and not the seven sins.

Wisdom
Courage
Moderation
Justice

I can see Maria as wisdom, she knows a lot of stuff
George as moderation, no need to explain
Jessica as justice, she always wants to make the killer pay
and Battler as courage
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 10:10   Link #1493
Kitsu
The unlucky one
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
That would be really appropriate but I'm not sure about Jessica and Battler. I think you could actually switch them and they would still fit. Since Battler who always battle Beatrice also seeks for justice and Jessica always wants to face the killer face on. I think both ways are alright.
And also it would make sense, since the children always "draw a line" between themselves and the adults. They say they never want to become like them and stuff.
__________________
Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara
Kitsu is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 10:15   Link #1494
izmosmolnar
At the end of this world
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hungary, Europe
Age: 29
Well, you are right.
We could try to categorize the 4 children into the 4 cardinal virtues too, but I still regard the scenario with the 7 virtue more likelier. (Hell! The other 3 virtues, the Theological virtues even appears in the Bible. They theorize that all 7 might have appeared at the very same time, first by greek philosophers around 400-500 BC.)

Or maybe, if we ask Walter Sparrow (played by Jim Carrey) he can show us how this whole family is related to the number 23

edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
But with the sins and the children...There's still a problem...Ange and Maria...maybe Maria does have a sin, but Ange. Ange is a six year old. She is a really young child and children are a symbol of purity.

But well...I just pointed it out. I don't think the number of servants is important or so, I just think it's a pretty funny coincidence
Exactly, and because she is a "symbol of purity" it would be easy to "categorize" her as one of the 7 VIRTUE-s (not sins). Of course she is no sinner at 6 yet (well tbh I was pretty gluttonous when I was 6, but that's a different story ), and that's why she could easily pass for more than one of the 7 virtues.

Last edited by izmosmolnar; 2009-05-07 at 10:31.
izmosmolnar is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 10:35   Link #1495
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Well it all depends on the number of the siestas at the end of the story, i'd say that if they don't grow more than 4 then the four virtue theory is valid, if they become 7 then it's the seven virtue theory. and if they grow even more then they are both false ;

Quote:
That would be really appropriate but I'm not sure about Jessica and Battler. I think you could actually switch them and they would still fit. Since Battler who always battle Beatrice also seeks for justice and Jessica always wants to face the killer face on. I think both ways are alright.
And also it would make sense, since the children always "draw a line" between themselves and the adults. They say they never want to become like them and stuff.

Oh... i was expecting someone to point out how Battler isn't always that brave "I'M GONNA FALL! I'M GONNA FALL!" ahem...
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 11:08   Link #1496
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Overall these are my opinions as far as virtues:

Shannon: Diligence (She is very diligent in her work and always tries her best)
Battler: Chastity (Courage and Wisdom are tokens of chastity - and the opposite of chastity is lust, which we can say embodies his father Rudolph)
Jessica: Kindness (She's kind to basically everyone - she even says that she gives presents to all the servants on their birthdays and even makes good friends with Shannon and Kanon)
Kanon: Temperance (He tends to control his emotions most times, until he snaps that is)
Maria: Patience (She tends to be the martyr overall, with how she always forgives her mother)
George: Humility (He always puts others above himself)
Ange: Charity
Spoiler for EP 3 Hidden Tea Party:
__________________

Sig by nocco
Marion is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 11:41   Link #1497
rogerpepitone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Send a message via Yahoo to rogerpepitone
Have you forgotten Battler's attempts to grope female characters?
rogerpepitone is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 12:35   Link #1498
Kitsu
The unlucky one
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
I don't really think that's lust.
He's "joking" he just wanted to be hit by Shannon for example. It's fun
__________________
Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara
Kitsu is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 15:13   Link #1499
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Yeah, Battler's a bastard hero. He's not really lustful, he just makes really creepy jokes that would normally scare off any woman. Like father like son maybe :P?
__________________

Sig by nocco
Marion is offline  
Old 2009-05-07, 16:03   Link #1500
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Yet i don't think he's anywhere close to the personification of chastity. You should not forget that according to christianity you can sin with actions, thoughts and omissions. Thoughts and actions are often considered the same thing, therefore Battler he's not that pure.

Anyway where did you get those virtues from? I guess there are several different version of what the 7 virtues should be. The one i know are:

Fortitude/Courage
Justice
Prudence
Temperance

Faith
Love
Hope
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.