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Old 2009-05-09, 23:36   Link #2021
Nappy Hared Azn
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Yeah, it's a gakuran jacket, but the entire ensemble would be considered ouendan because of the whole cheering theme.

EDIT: Spelling.
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Last edited by Nappy Hared Azn; 2009-05-10 at 23:10.
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Old 2009-05-10, 00:45   Link #2022
Jintor
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The gloves especially.
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Old 2009-05-10, 01:32   Link #2023
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Hopefully someone can help me understand this...

I just bought the first novel (in English) and I find that the idiom used is almost always identical to the fansubs from three years ago*. As in, the places where the translator has to take a few liberties to convey the style. ("The tight-lipped wonder had finally opened her mouth, and out came this winding freakish spiel.")While I like the phrasing, I'm confused as to how that comes about. It's not like you can copyright fansubs, but it seems odd that an official translator would use them as the source - unless they figured that that version is what the readers already know and why change what's not broken?

Anyone know the story here?

*"Three years ago" again??

There was also one choice of wording that could be an in-joke to the community abroad: "Haruhi Suzumiya continues to transmit intermittent torrents of data at completely random intervals." Tell us about it.
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Old 2009-05-10, 01:41   Link #2024
M.Marangio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Noizi Itou's concept art.

If the filename is correct, from Megami, issue October 2006.
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Old 2009-05-10, 01:42   Link #2025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardee View Post
Hopefully someone can help me understand this...

I just bought the first novel (in English) and I find that the idiom used is almost always identical to the fansubs from three years ago*. As in, the places where the translator has to take a few liberties to convey the style. ("The tight-lipped wonder had finally opened her mouth, and out came this winding freakish spiel.")While I like the phrasing, I'm confused as to how that comes about. It's not like you can copyright fansubs, but it seems odd that an official translator would use them as the source - unless they figured that that version is what the readers already know and why change what's not broken?

Anyone know the story here?

*"Three years ago" again??

There was also one choice of wording that could be an in-joke to the community abroad: "Haruhi Suzumiya continues to transmit intermittent torrents of data at completely random intervals." Tell us about it.
I had a peek at the preview for the translation in the English manga. It looked almost as though they had just taken it straight off Baka-Tsuki.
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Old 2009-05-10, 01:46   Link #2026
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Marangio View Post

If the filename is correct, from Megami, issue October 2006.
Is that the original image though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
I had a peek at the preview for the translation in the English manga. It looked almost as though they had just taken it straight off Baka-Tsuki.
The novel is actually slightly different in some places, but, yeah...

Also, I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that Strato was involved in the translation of the English novel, and since the B-T translations were originally based off of his a.f.k. subs... yeah.
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Old 2009-05-10, 01:48   Link #2027
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I guess that would explain it.

(I am totally a better writer than whoever officially translated the novel)

It's a pity I can't read Japanese.
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Old 2009-05-10, 02:51   Link #2028
Ardee
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Originally Posted by Nappy Hared Azn View Post
Yeah, it's a gakuran jacket
Interesting, I didn't know the category name, but that picture has always uneasily reminded me of a WWII German outfit. Wikipedia says "The Gakuran is derived from Prussian army uniforms" which matches my intuition. I especially grimace when she's wearing the red and black armband over it. Do they not get the allusion, or is it hideously intentional?
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Old 2009-05-10, 03:17   Link #2029
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It is a sort of standard attire it seems.

But then Prussian based uniforms pre-date World War II by a considerable number of years. If the influence is what I'm thinking of, we are talking 1870s or so, nearly 70 years before that war.
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Old 2009-05-10, 03:28   Link #2030
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
It is a sort of standard attire it seems.
Until you add the red armband (from the anime opening), at which point it becomes an SS uniform. (2nd and 3rd images on the right)

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Quote:
But then Prussian based uniforms pre-date World War II by a considerable number of years. If the influence is what I'm thinking of, we are talking 1870s or so, nearly 70 years before that war.
The term Prussia survived a little beyond WW2 so not necessarily. As much as I regret it, I think the reference is intentional here, though maybe not with the same connotation that it has in the West. I would guess/hope that the attribute they're calling out is that she can be as dedicated and fierce a commander as as officer in a now-legendary group like that; while I can't help but see it as the uniform of the Enemy, (the way like when Galadriel says it, you can hear the capital E)

Last edited by Ardee; 2009-05-10 at 03:57.
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Old 2009-05-10, 03:56   Link #2031
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Not really. It's a black longcoat with a red armband. Somewhat similar, if you reduce it down to absolute basics, but in no way the same. If the Brigade Chief armband had a white circle on it, now then you might have a case...

It's meant to look more like this in any case.
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Old 2009-05-10, 04:00   Link #2032
Ithekro
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The red armband is also standard. I believe it is used to note the leader of a group.

And by Prussian influence I mean the time period when Prussia was advising the Japanese during the 19th century. This turns out to be the case since this design goes back to the late 19th century and early 20th century (with the sailor suits the girls wear being based on British Naval uniforms from the same time period, since the Japanese Navy was trained by the British and the Army by the Prussians/Germans well before the First World War).

Therefore any association with 1930s and 1940s Germany and modern male Japanese school uniforms is purely coincidence because both would be based on the same older uniform designs from the late 1800s.
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2009-05-10 at 04:13.
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Old 2009-05-10, 04:16   Link #2033
Ardee
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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
Not really. It's a black longcoat with a red armband. Somewhat similar, if you reduce it down to absolute basics, but in no way the same. If the Brigade Chief armband had a white circle on it, now then you might have a case...

It's meant to look more like this in any case.
Interesting, I can easily see it being more directly borrowed from that, though it brings to mind a funny Asimov description of a character (not scifi, so from the 70s or so) as having "the kind of moustache Hitler had put out of style years ago." If you borrow a style from someone who goes bad, you have to change your style if you don't want people to make the association. As the wiki article notes, uniform black was long a German symbol, and the SS uniform is one of the most recognizable in history. So I'd tend to add your other picture to the list of people who shouldn't go around dressed in a way that recalls SS, rather than excuse them both as a norm.

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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
The red armband is also standard. I believe it is used to note the leader of a group.
thanks both of you for the comments, I'm glad it's not as flagrant a reference as I feared, though let's say it's not a style I'd choose to wear with the excuse that similiarities aside it's just an old Japanese-German-style uniform from before that had any bad significance.
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Old 2009-05-10, 05:58   Link #2034
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I think you're reading to much into Japanese Male school uniforms...
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Old 2009-05-10, 06:23   Link #2035
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Real uniforms look fairly similar...

Spoiler for space:


Maybe it's a cultural difference, or maybe you're just seeing things you want to see. And who continually thinks 'do I look like I'm part of the Schutzstaffel', anyway? And as to your further comment; this is a norm. Real cheerleading squads like this do exist, and yes, they have red armbands.

And as for the Hitler comment... what was it Mel Brooks said? A Hitler moustache nowadays would be considered funny, not frightening...
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Old 2009-05-10, 11:42   Link #2036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
Real uniforms look fairly similar...


Maybe it's a cultural difference, or maybe you're just seeing things you want to see. And who continually thinks 'do I look like I'm part of the Schutzstaffel', anyway? And as to your further comment; this is a norm. Real cheerleading squads like this do exist, and yes, they have red armbands.

And as for the Hitler comment... what was it Mel Brooks said? A Hitler moustache nowadays would be considered funny, not frightening...
Cultural difference. Without knowing of the related Japanese style, I instead associste it with its more-well-known (in the West) cousin. And it definitely is a cousin, I think we all agree, just diverging a couple generations earlier than I guessed.

The moustache funny? Sure, but in a laugh-at, not laugh-with way.

You mean you don't check your appearance in a mirror every morning against a checklist of evil organizations you don't want to accidentally represent? Slacker. Hmm, I think I'm all clear today.
Spoiler for current self-photo:
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Old 2009-05-10, 13:02   Link #2037
Ithekro
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Style wise I think the Japanese have been using both these male and female military styled uniforms for a very long time. The male uniforms I believe started in the later 19th century while the female uniforms where changed in the 1920s.

Tradition is a hard things to stop. And while some schools have changed (as seen in Haruhi even since the males are wearing suits and ties at North High and the females sailor uniforms, but at the other school the males are wearing the traditional western military uniforms with the females wearing a more business suit style) the process is slow since the idea of everyone being uniform remains a constant.
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Old 2009-05-10, 13:21   Link #2038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Style wise I think the Japanese have been using both these male and female military styled uniforms for a very long time. The male uniforms I believe started in the later 19th century while the female uniforms where changed in the 1920s.

Tradition is a hard things to stop. And while some schools have changed (as seen in Haruhi even since the males are wearing suits and ties at North High and the females sailor uniforms, but at the other school the males are wearing the traditional western military uniforms with the females wearing a more business suit style) the process is slow since the idea of everyone being uniform remains a constant.
Actually, Kyon notes the oddity of the North High uniform choices in the first full chapter of the first volume. He suggests the principal has a sailor uniform fetish... ^_^
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Old 2009-05-10, 14:19   Link #2039
Kaisos Erranon
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And who continually thinks 'do I look like I'm part of the Schutzstaffel', anyway?
Given that my nickname IRL is "Gestapo", I've wanted one of those uniforms for YEARS just so I can think that.

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Actually, Kyon notes the oddity of the North High uniform choices in the first full chapter of the first volume. He suggests the principal has a sailor uniform fetish... ^_^
Amusingly, the real North High uses gakuran for the boys and business suits for the girls...
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Old 2009-05-10, 15:00   Link #2040
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Amusingly, the real North High uses gakuran for the boys and business suits for the girls...
Which would make it more realistic to say that the AUTHOR had a fetish for Seifuku.
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