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Old 2009-05-14, 11:41   Link #101
Master Mold
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
They still respond to the WG, regardless on how they act, they are just rogue, but they still get orders form the WG, and anything they do against WG ethics if is not a minor thing, they keep it secret.
Yeah, they get orders, but they don't follow them most of the time, unless it will aid them in some manner. A lap Dog is one eager to do another's bidding, especially in order to maintain a position of privilege or favor. The Seven Armed Seas have already shown to be the opposite of that.

Quote:
You sure evade what I was talking about, Hancock will not come to the WG and say in their faces, “I inserted Luffy in ID.”
Why would she? what you said doesn't help your argument at all, not to mention helping Luffy (an enemy) out, once again proves that she ain't no Lap Dog.

Quote:
Jimbei been buddy with someone in the other side doesn’t means he wasn't following orders from the WG, what you here there made little sense.
When did Jinbei ever follow the WG orders? he didn't show up for the meeting to discuss the balance being messed up, he is best buds with the WG biggest Pirate enemies found in Whitebeard. He is spouse to fight against him not be buddy buddy with him.

If you think the WG thinks its OK for Jinbei to befriend Whitebeard, I don't know what to tell ya.

Quote:
Ok, you weren’t Surprised........... you didn’t believe it was the outcome that was going to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold
I wasn't surprised, I just thought/assumed it was fake, so my hopes wouldn't be shattered, like so many other times before.
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Old 2009-05-14, 11:43   Link #102
marvelB
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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
I agree MB, we can't for get about Doc Q, so far he has done nothing even in battle.

Well, I think those apple-bombs sorta count....



But yeah, I want to see Doc Q in action, too. I'm sure that he's an extremely deadly guy, seeing as his nickname is even Shinigami/Grim Reaper. You can't judge a sickly old guy and his horse by their cover......
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Old 2009-05-14, 11:51   Link #103
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Why would she? what you said doesn't help your argument at all, not to mention helping Luffy (an enemy) out, once again proves that she ain't no Lap Dog.
She did it out of blind love, keeping this a secret from WG only confirms she doesnt wants to loose her tittle.

Quote:
When did Jinbei ever follow the WG orders? he didn't show up for the meeting to discuss the balance being messed up, he is best buds with the WG biggest Pirate enemies found in Whitebeard. He is spouse to fight against him not be buddy buddy with him.
Wow, You know so much about this character that im Amazed, could you tell me more about him, I mean the name of his Nakamas? Since how long he is Sichibukai? why he joined them? His age? because it seems you are creating things out of the blue, How do you know how many times Jimbei has follow orders from WG? you only have the little information the author has given, which is not enough to be going around saying as if Jimbei never accepted an order from the WG.

Quote:
If you think the WG thinks its OK for Jinbei to befriend Whitebeard, I don't know what to tell ya.
Like I said before, it doesnt matter the ties Jimbei have with WB, because thats something that has nothing to do with from whom he recieves orders.

I think you are strongly missing the point here, there is different between doing something against the law or out of personal interest, and doing something against the WG. The Word Government itself do Dubius things that you could be say it is abusing the law, however, The Sichibukai doing something that breaks the Law, and the Sichibukai doing something that goes completely against the WG are 2 totally different things.

Examples:

Jimbei not obeying WG into participating in battle against WB.

Croc Planning a civil war in a country that has affiliation with the World Government.

Both of them were striped of theirs ranks and sent to jail.

As the definition of lapdog goes like this: One eager to do another's bidding, especially in order to maintain a position of privilege or favor.” Basically these guys do things for the government to keep their status, and not even because they agree or like doing it.
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Old 2009-05-14, 12:12   Link #104
Master Mold
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
She did it out of blind love, not saying this only confirms she doesnt wants to loose her tittle.
She was about to take out that Vice Captain and crew, not only to keep her title but to also not aid the World Government in war. Thats bitting off the hand that feeds you and also, keeping the food. Lap Dogs don't do that.

Quote:
Wow, You know so much about this character that im Amaze, could you tell me more about him? because it seems you are creating things out of the blue, How do you know how many times Jimbei has follow orders from WG? you only have the little information the author has given, which is not enough to be going around saying as if Jimbei never accepted an order from the WG.
Care to point out when I said Jimbei never accepted an order from the WG? I simple asked you a question.

Quote:
Like I said before, it doesnt matter the ties Jimbei have with WB, because thats something that has nothing to do with from whom he recieves orders.
Is that why jinbei travels under the ocean when he meets up with Whitebeard?


Quote:
I think you are strongly missing the point here, there is different between doing something against the law or out of personal interest, and doing something against the WG. The Word Government itself do Dubius things that you could be say it is abusing the law, however, The Sichibukai doing something that breaks the Law, and the Sichibukai doing something that goes completely against the WG are 2 totally different things.
The Seven Armed Seas members have already done things that go completely against the World Government orders. Lap Dogs don't do things that go completely against there master orders.

Quote:
As the definition of lapdog goes like this: One eager to do another's bidding, especially in order to maintain a position of privilege or favor.”
Basically these guys do things for the government to keep their status, and not even because they agree or like doing it.
The Seven Armed Seas have shown they are not eager to do the Worlds Governments bidding. Example, most of the Seven Armed Seas not showing up to a lot of meetings.The Seven Armed Seas members have shown they don't follow orders especially in order to maintain a position of privilege or favor.
Example, Doflamingo, Mihawk, showing up to a meeting, not because the WG asked them to but because.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canon
Doflamingo: Yeah, I didn't wanna come either.
The island business has been too good lately.
I came cause I was bored.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canon
Mihawk: I hear a useless conversation.
Have I come to the wrong place?

- Page 153 -

Someone: HAWK EYES!!!!

Mihawk: "Marine Headquarters" and "Seven Armed Seas"... two conflicting groups of equal power
holding a "round table" is a meaningless thing.

Doflamingo: ...well, looky here...!!
The last man I expected to see has shown up.

Mihawk: ...hmph... I am simply here to observe.
I have a bit of interest in the pirates on the agenda this time... that is all.
Quote:
Basically these guys do things for the government to keep their status, and not even because they agree or like doing it.
Hancock disagrees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canon
- Pages 80 & 81 -

Hancock: Finally, you have come. Men, always such trouble...
My recent reply was a lie! I will go to no war!!

- Page 83 -

Momonga: In other words, within this week...
Whitebeard will spring into motion!!!
We of Marine Headquarters, led by the three admirals,
are preparing to strike back at Whitebeard with our full might, when he acts!!
You can be stripped of your rank,
or you can answer the summons!! Choose NOW!!
Your time limit has arrived!!!

Hancock: I enjoy the status of a Seven Armed Sea. I do not wish it taken away...
But I hate the World Government... I do not want to hear their orders.
How about this outcome, then? All the sailors who came for me...
...met an unfortunate accident at sea, turned into stone, and were wiped out...
Far from Lap Dogs.

Last edited by Master Mold; 2009-05-14 at 12:35.
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Old 2009-05-14, 12:22   Link #105
Trax
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If the Shichibukai were true lapdogs, they would be quite submissive and obey most if not all of the WG's orders without question. But from what has been shown so far, they don't, and more often than not do what they please unless their title is in jeopardy (like it is if they refuse to participate in the battle vs WB).
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Old 2009-05-14, 13:32   Link #106
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
She was about to take out that Vice Captain and crew, not only to keep her title but to also not aid the World Government in war. Thats bitting off the hand that feeds you and also, keeping the food. Lap Dogs don't do that.
Those things done by her were done by the same reason to avoid losing her title, she is hiding the things that goes against the WG and that could threaten her position.

Quote:
Care to point out when I said Jimbei never accepted an order from the WG? I simple asked you a question.
When you to asked when did Jimbei ever accepted orders from the WG? and don't try to pull a fast one here, I know too much about posting for you to come here and Explain that your question wasnít trying to Imply that Jimbei never took orders. It should be hard on you that always like to Quotes Canon to invent such things.

Quote:
Is that why jinbei travels under the ocean when he meets up with Whitebeard?
Once again, his ties doesnít have anything to do, with who is giving him orders, just because he is befriends with WB, doesnít exclude him from what he was before. WG lap dog.

BTW, before you continue with your incredible run at me, Jimbei befriends with the enemies is not something unheard of before:

-Profesor X leader of the X-men best friend happens to be X-men greatest foe, Magneto

-Naruto best friends joined one of the most dangerous persons for Konoha, Orochimaru

Have professor X been kicked out of the X-men because of this? Have naruto been Kicked ou of Konoha because of it?

Like I said, your argument makes little sense in what you are trying to prove here.


Quote:
The Seven Armed Seas members have already done things that go completely against the World Government orders. Lap Dogs don't do things that go completely against there master orders.
The question is: have they done it with full knowledge of the WG?



Quote:
The Seven Armed Seas have shown they are not eager to do the Worlds Governments bidding. Example, most of the Seven Armed Seas not showing up to a lot of meetings.The Seven Armed Seas members have shown they don't follow orders especially in order to maintain a position of privilege or favor.
Example, Doflamingo, Mihawk, showing up to a meeting, not because the WG asked them to but because.
Meetings are not that important to even bring them to notice here, they are not orders to be carried out, nor is something that goes against what the WG expect on what they have (Pirates nonetheless), at the end of the day the fact remains that they still act under the WG, take orders from them and maybe here and there they donít carry them out, but they donít go on and Kill an invade central office without repercussions.



Quote:
Hancock disagrees.

The fact that hancock needs to hide things in order to keep been a Sichibukai, even if she goes against specific instructions speak volumes of what Im talking about and just like Jimbei, you only are presented with a shallow part of what they have done under the WG and the orders they have follwed before.

So, Donít go on assuming that just because She didnít want to participate I no war, she didnít accept others requests from the WG.
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Old 2009-05-14, 14:09   Link #107
Master Mold
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Those things done by her were done by the same reason to avoid losing her title, she is hiding the things that goes against the WG and that could threaten her position.
and they still prove my point. Lap Dogs don't do that.

Quote:
When you to asked when did Jimbei ever accepted orders from the WG? and don't try to pull a fast one here, I know too much about posting for you to come here and Explain that your question wasn’t trying to Imply that Jimbei never took orders. It should be hard on you that always like to Quotes Canon to invent such things.
Thats me asking a question, if you know that he does, then Pics, Statements or it didn't happen.


Quote:
Once again, his ties doesn’t have anything to do, with who is giving him orders, just because he is befriends with WB, doesn’t exclude him from what he was before. WG lap dog.
Lap Dog? Jinbei has already, proven that he is not a Lap Dog, like you claim.

Quote:
BTW, before you continue with your incredible run at me, Jimbei befriends with the enemies is not something unheard of before:
Never said it was.

Quote:
Like I said, your argument makes little sense in what you are trying to prove here.
If that wasn't a big deal to the WG why does Jinbei have to travel under the ocean to meet up with Whitebeard?

Quote:
The question is: have they done it with full knowledge of the WG?
That has nothing to do with the argument. The point is they do things lap dogs don't. Which means they are not Lap Dogs.


Quote:
Meetings are not that important to even bring them to notice here, they are not orders to be carried out, nor is something that goes against what the WG expect on what they have (Pirates nonetheless), at the end of the day the fact remains that they still act under the WG,take orders from them and maybe here and there they don’t carry them out, but they don’t go on and Kill an invade central office without repercussions.
Good way to ignore the story and Oda showing us what type of relationship the Seven Armed Seas have towards the Marines and WG.


Quote:
The fact that hancock needs to hide things in order to keep been a Sichibukai, even if she goes against specific instructions speak volumes of what Im talking about and just like Jimbei, you only are presented with a shallow part of what they have done under the WG and the orders they have follwed before.

So, Don’t go on assuming that just because She didn’t want to participate I no war, she didn’t accept others requests from the WG.
Your not making any sense at all mate.

Lap Dogs don't do what the Seven armed seas do, I have already provided a nice amount of Canon backing me. You have yet to provide anything proving they are in there masters laps.
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Old 2009-05-14, 14:17   Link #108
Rurik
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Look, I will concede you the point because after reading my original post, it is possible my inttention was to say Goverment Dogs, and Not Goverment Lap Dogs.

Tell me is that changes anything or the debate still stands
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Old 2009-05-14, 14:23   Link #109
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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
and they still prove my point. Lap Dogs don't do that.
How many lap dogs have you seen or met?

In One Piece, it is most likely referring to doing work for the WG. They don't have to completely comply with their requests, yet they still do jobs for them. And, as we had seen so far, except for the emergency situations, they seem to have more freedom than a typical lap dog you are referring to. Though even in emergency situations they may have more freedom than usual.

Also, to prove your point, try to sleep with a hungry pitbull on your lap, and see what a lap dog can or cannot do...If you survive with no damage, then that means you are right. If you get some damage, then that means you are wrong.
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Old 2009-05-14, 14:27   Link #110
Master Mold
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Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
How many lap dogs have you seen or met?

In One Piece, it is most likely referring to doing work for the WG. They don't have to completely comply with their requests, yet they still do jobs for them. And, as we had seen so far, except for the emergency situations, they seem to have more freedom than a typical lap dog you are referring to. Though even in emergency situations they may have more freedom than usual.

Also, to prove your point, try to sleep with a hungry pitbull on your lap, and see what a lap dog can or cannot do...If you survive with no damage, then that means you are right. If you get some damage, then that means you are wrong.
A lap Dog is one eager to do another's bidding, especially in order to maintain a position of privilege or favor. The Seven Armed Seas have already shown to be the opposite of that.

for more informations, heres the hot line.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=106
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Old 2009-05-14, 14:29   Link #111
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
How many lap dogs have you seen or met?

In One Piece, it is most likely referring to doing work for the WG. They don't have to completely comply with their requests, yet they still do jobs for them. And, as we had seen so far, except for the emergency situations, they seem to have more freedom than a typical lap dog you are referring to. Though even in emergency situations they may have more freedom than usual.

Also, to prove your point, try to sleep with a hungry pitbull on your lap, and see what a lap dog can or cannot do...If you survive with no damage, then that means you are right. If you get some damage, then that means you are wrong.
Well thats is exactly what I was talking about, but could be that "Dogs", instead of "lap dogs", it is most suitable around here, given more than one poster have voiced their disagreement.

And Master Mold, could you at least credit that definition you are using over the site where you got it? you seem to be having fun using it as if where your own (at least some decency of using your own words, as you even did copy paste)
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Old 2009-05-14, 14:41   Link #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
A lap Dog is one eager to do another's bidding, especially in order to maintain a position of privilege or favor. The Seven Armed Seas have already shown to be the opposite of that.

for more informations, heres the hot line.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=106
Sorry I don't go for the hotlines. Anyways, the way those words used in the story may not have to be what you are expecting it to be. From an outsider's perspective (like the pirates that hate the Shichibukai and WG), Shichibukai may be seen exactly like that. In other words, doing exactly what the WG asks them to do. Even if they may go out of the boundaries, that may not be sufficient to change the views on others. And, as an outsider's outsider's .... outsider, I highly doubt your view or mine or another's will have an effect as a world establishing fact.

Ping me, when you get a hold of Oda, and get an answer as to that words should be okay to use, as the way he might have intended to be different.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Well thats is exactly what I was talking about, but could be that "Dogs", instead of "lap dogs", it is most suitable around here, given more than one poster have voiced their disagreement.
Well, if I am not mistaken, in the story it was mentioned as government dogs, but I may be wrong, as I am not one of the gods of the one piece world.
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Old 2009-05-14, 14:45   Link #113
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Hmm, the Shichibukai are the dogs of the Government, there is no question about that (they work for the government, and at times can be forced to do certain activities they might otherwise not be interested in), but I do not think you can quite call them lap dogs because several of them are more than willing to betray their 'masters' if given sufficient reason (ex: Crocodile gaining Pluton would have more than made up for the fact that he lost his title (arguably Moria gaining Odz could have ended in Moria leaving the Shichibukai to try and become the Pirate King yet again)). I human lap dog is ultimately a lackey, a servile follower, and lackeys do not betray their 'masters'.
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Old 2009-05-14, 14:51   Link #114
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Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
Sorry I don't go for the hotlines. Anyways, the way those words used in the story may not have to be what you are expecting it to be. From an outsider's perspective (like the pirates that hate the Shichibukai and WG), Shichibukai may be seen exactly like that. In other words, doing exactly what the WG asks them to do. Even if they may go out of the boundaries, that may not be sufficient to change the views on others. And, as an outsider's outsider's .... outsider, I highly doubt your view or mine or another's will have an effect as a world establishing fact.

Ping me, when you get a hold of Oda, and get an answer as to that words should be okay to use, as the way he might have intended to be different.
I not talking about what they look like in the eyes of the natives of the One Piece world. I'm talking about what we see and read as readers of a story and they are far from Lap Dogs.

But I guess this is Rocket science for some of you. hit me up when that rocket is completed.
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Old 2009-05-14, 14:56   Link #115
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being a shibubukai gives you a free pass to do pretty much what ever you want...
i dont see the shibubuaki as a lap dog or a lacky,they only did it probably cos that way the wg dont go after them which means they can keep doing what ever they want as long as they agree to do once in a while something the wg ask,look at mihawk,i dont think anyone in the wg will be suprised if he simply wont do anything if whitebeard come along,and i dont think anyone there can tell him what to do or to doflamingo for that matter,he can play with the wg like puppets if he realy wants to,its simply good buisness to work with the wg and to know what they plan,and as a strong charcter in one piece you can alwyas simply ditch the wg when ever they want,dont foget the wg are not stronger then all the shibubukai together,and if they join forces with a few more crew members like the straw hats and maybe even a yankou,sence everybody hates the wg...
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Old 2009-05-14, 15:45   Link #116
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Chapter is out!

I was sceptical about this chapter when I first checked spoilers but I should not stop beliveng Oda.

Chapter was excellent read and full of content.

Blackbeard invading Impel Down was real plot twist that I doubt anyone could foresee. Shiriyuu was even more brutal than I expected, he even looks quite intimidating and evil.

What is unclear at this moment is why did Blackbeard stole marine ship and invaded Impel Down dangering his very position as Shichibukai.

Currently most popular theory out there is that he is come to Impel Down to recruit some dangerous invidiuals to his crew, Shiriyu has been excpected to join Blackbeard pirates.

Shiriyuu would be dangerous addition to Blackbeard crew providing them swordmaster and another extremely ruthless and dangerous fighter.

Personally I dont think Blackbeard is there to help Luffy, I believe he will be serious thread to Luffy and his crew.

Oda surely suprised us all and I believe we will be given excellent reasons for Blackbeards sudden assault. But until next chapters we have lot to discuss and theory to about
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Old 2009-05-14, 16:00   Link #117
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So now the question is:

What is Blackbeard there for?
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Old 2009-05-14, 16:05   Link #118
james0246
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I going to make a prediction...there is a lost history Log in Impel Down, and Blackbeard has gone to the jail to read the Log...obviously this is complete conjecture based on nothing besides the fact that I think it would be cool .

edit: lol, I meant Poneglyphs not Log .

Last edited by james0246; 2009-05-14 at 17:05.
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Old 2009-05-14, 16:06   Link #119
Rawrz
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Shiryu is clearly a sadist and gonna give team blackbeard a little tough time.But no matter what happens I fail to see team Blackbeard going down right here and now.I think Shiryu will be a great enemy to witness Lafitte,Doc,Burgess and Augers secret skills rather than Blackbeard himself.

plus these two little scenes made me laugh hard


Stronger looks stronger than ever lol!
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Old 2009-05-14, 16:17   Link #120
Prestige
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I personally think Blackbeard and Shiriyuu know eachother in past.

Or Blackbeard and Shiriyuu will clash and Blackbeard convinces Shiriyuu to join his crew, Shiriyuu dont have any future amongs World Goverment or Impel down.

Shiriyuu would prove excellent enemy for Zoro should Strawhats and Blackbeard crews ever clash in New World.

3 reasons why I think BB might have assaulted Impel Down.

1: Recruitment

BB is aiming to bolster his crew with powerful and ruthless members such as Shiriyuu and silver-medallists.

2: Killing Luffy

Blackbeard might have twisted sense of honor and he might have promised to himself to bring an end to Luffy.

3. Something in Impel Down.


As James mentioned there might be some kind of log pose/artefact or information that is crucial to Blackbeard.
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