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View Poll Results: Eden of the East - Episode 6 Rating
Perfect 10 11 16.42%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 23.88%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 20.90%
7 out of 10 : Good 13 19.40%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 8.96%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 4.48%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 2.99%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.49%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.49%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-05-17, 07:39   Link #81
Jan-Poo
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Freeters are people who cycle through low-income jobs while still supported by their family. There's really no significant differences from the standpoint of how Japanese people might see them. If you don't do it the right way, it's just wrong (figuratively speaking, I don't really believe it's right or wrong. I do believe sucking up to your parents when you're 30 is kinda idiotic, though).
So I assume you are saying that the wiki page is wrong.
In that case I'll have to ask you were your source comes from, because to me it's not a matter of the "original meaning", but rather the general idea of what is a NEET according to the japanese and that I seemed to understand so far is different from what you are stating.


Quote:
I'm fairly sure that show dealt with hikikomori-ism, which is a very well defined term that actually implies total isolation from the outside world. It is a very similar phenomenon, or at least a subset of the same phenomenon. I really don't know whether that quote said NEET or hikikomori, but I remember the latter being much more prevalent overall (I don't think I heard the word NEET in that show, but whatever).
You should seriously rewatch this show because the word NEET as been repeated over and over a lot. Actually before watching NHK I didn't even know what a NEET was, I was more familiar with the term Hikikomori. So I find it kind of funny that you think this show never mentioned NEET while it was the show that introduced me to this concept ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv51zeP03L4 <- 9:30 (this is the first episode)

Anyway this show is mainly focused on hikikomori, but since an hikikomori is automatically a NEET it talks about NEETs too. And the quote I was referring to was definitely talking about NEET and not Hikikomori.
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Old 2009-05-17, 08:14   Link #82
~BC~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Field of Lilies View Post
What did surprise me was her behaviour later on in the ep. The whole "I wasn't sure if I could really believe everything Takizawa said then, but it does seem scary. So let's all go together." line followed by waiting in the car while her friends went to scoop out the place seemed kinda odd to me. Of course everyone would be suspicious of Akira, that's not the issue. The thing is that you'd think Saki's would be past that by now, considering how much time she's spent with him, including being at that very mall before.
She's spent time with him but does she actually know him (we're up to day 5 in series)? He's not really been able to disclose anything to her since he's kind of a blank slate right now. I'd like to think she realized how dangerous her behavior was once she had to actually go back through the mall on her own in ep 3. I mean she was in an empty mall in a slum with a complete stranger. He really could have done anything to her if he'd wanted to (that he didn't is beside the point). On the other hand she may have simply acted that way to put Hirasawa at ease.
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Old 2009-05-17, 08:22   Link #83
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
^

I'm positive it's an American thing. The entire phrase of 'cutting off a Johnny' is not a real phrase though. Just the Johnny wording. But like I said, the anime writers just don't give a crap about how they namedrop a ton of things. I doubt they really care about how exactly they are supposed to be used, much less the origins.
I was talking about the NEET term.
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Old 2009-05-17, 09:23   Link #84
Jan-Poo
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The NEET term is only popular in Japan, I think.
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Old 2009-05-17, 09:25   Link #85
Field of Lilies
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I'd say that he didn't is exactly the point. There have been several instances where Saki willingly put herself in a potentially dangerous situation conserning Akira. Yes she found herself in an empty mall in a slum with a complete stranger, but it's not like she didn't know that before hand. She knew the strangers house was located in a slum and went with him of her own free will. The only thing she didn't know is that the house turned out to be a mall, which I admit makes things more fishy. But after the mall incident she shows no hesitation when he picks her up on his motorcycle. In fact, she seems quite content to drive around with him for several hours (I recall Osugi saying he'd come pick her up at 2), after which he drops her off at the location of her choice.

Of course a guy who's waving a gun around while naked in front of the white house is suspicious. Learing he has no memory makes him even more so. That's the point at which many people would say "so long and a have a nice life". Saki didn't. She decided to trust him and indeed, he's given her absolutely no reason to suspect she was wrong in doing so. Why start now?

You make an interesting point about Hirasawa though I hadn't thought about her putting up an act to make him feel more at ease. And though I personally think it's a little silly, I guess she could be the kind of person who would do such a thing.
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Old 2009-05-17, 09:44   Link #86
Jan-Poo
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Actually she was going to do that. "so long and have a nice life". Akira himself basically told her that. The odd thing is that she gave to this suspicious guy her coat, her scarf and her beret. But she only did that because she was feeling sorry for this naked guy who helped her and despite the situation seemed a totally nice (although wacko) guy.

Everything started a different path when she realized her passport was inside her coat, so she had no choice but to follow Akira, even if she didn't want to have anything to do with him.

When she finally reached him Akira had the fantastic plan to go back to Japan with her, using her as a cover of some sort (that's why he chose a similar passport). Saki at this point didn't really want to tag along with this guy any further she just wanted her passport back and so long. However she soon found herself being a suspect individual targeted by the police and so she decided to trust this strange individual who saved her twice in a row from them.

From that point, and only from that she became fascinated by him and started to trust him and to find curiosity about this mysterious guy.
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Old 2009-05-17, 10:10   Link #87
~BC~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Field of Lilies View Post
I'd say that he didn't is exactly the point. There have been several instances where Saki willingly put herself in a potentially dangerous situation conserning Akira. Yes she found herself in an empty mall in a slum with a complete stranger, but it's not like she didn't know that before hand. She knew the strangers house was located in a slum and went with him of her own free will. The only thing she didn't know is that the house turned out to be a mall, which I admit makes things more fishy. But after the mall incident she shows no hesitation when he picks her up on his motorcycle. In fact, she seems quite content to drive around with him for several hours (I recall Osugi saying he'd come pick her up at 2), after which he drops her off at the location of her choice.

Of course a guy who's waving a gun around while naked in front of the white house is suspicious. Learing he has no memory makes him even more so. That's the point at which many people would say "so long and a have a nice life". Saki didn't. She decided to trust him and indeed, he's given her absolutely no reason to suspect she was wrong in doing so. Why start now?

You make an interesting point about Hirasawa though I hadn't thought about her putting up an act to make him feel more at ease. And though I personally think it's a little silly, I guess she could be the kind of person who would do such a thing.
My point is that a dangerous situation is not negated just because no one gets hurt. Dashing across a busy highway is still a dangerous thing to do regardless of whether or not the pedestrian/drivers get hurt.

I guess the difference in our views is that I don't think Saki was consciously thinking of the danger. Akira's just standing on the boat looking handsome in the sunset and she's thinking about how she didn't get to exchange contact info with him and then suddenly he extends his hand. She's overjoyed and jumps. No real consideration for danger from what was shown, IMO.

Anyway, I lean more towards her just humoring Hirasawa.
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Old 2009-05-17, 11:08   Link #88
Kaoru Chujo
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Having watched this episode three times now, I am coming to like it more, especially for helping us understand what Hirasawa and the others are really getting at.

Japanese working life is unfair and onerous, it appears to me, particularly in companies. I've had it explained to me that in certain jobs, you spend the whole day sucking up to customers and potential customers, then go back to the office at five and spend three hours doing the actual paperwork. Some nights, you go out drinking with your boss and coworkers after that. Bosses can be quite inconsiderate, bossy, and proud. And you can't get out of social events connected with work, of which there are many. You are more or less imprisoned with your workmates for forty years, until you are forced to retire. And if you don't voluntarily enter this hell, you are a weirdo to be shunned, a NEET, a hikikomori, a freeter.

Eden is dedicated to finding a way out of this, to reorganizing Japanese society to be freer and more respectful of difference. I noted that when we first saw the hallway with the name of the Eden of the East club by a door, the name had been written over a previous club's name: "Eastern Revolutionary League." Maybe that was Hirasawa's previous club.

Like many Production IG shows, the emotions in this show are kind of restrained. And points aren't made that with that much emphasis, so it takes time for them to actually touch my emotions.

The romance between Saki and Akira is also being held back for a while. She decided not to stay with him that night. We are still not sure how much comfort and how much love there was in that kiss. But when he asks her if she really wants to know why he invited her to stay, the implication for me was that he was going to say it was because he likes her, as well as feeling sympathy for her position.

We were wondering earlier if Saki was a NEET: she is now, and proud of it. She may be timid, but she is also, almost despite herself, bold and fruitful: she went off to DC on her own, she figured out how to make the club actually work, she was kind to naked Akira, she followed him to Japan and the boat and the mall, she refused to work for a company she thought was going to exploit her. I know a couple of apparently timid women who would do stuff like that.

I couldn't help enjoying Akira and Micchan's little playtime out in the courtyard, but it was odd that Micchan was portrayed as if she was about four, even though she is actually 21.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2009-05-17 at 18:30.
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Old 2009-05-17, 12:18   Link #89
Field of Lilies
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@Jan-Poo: You are absolutely right of course, and I was not elaborate enough in that second paragraph. I oversimplified things because I'd been focusing on the first visit to the mall and what happened after that. I was mostly pointing out why I didn't agree with ~BC~ about Saki realizing she did something dangerous after the mall incident.

@~BC~: I really have to disagree with that analogy. While a busy highway will always be dangerous, the level of danger when humans are involved isn't fixed. Past experiences colour our perception of danger and people become less of a threat the more they prove to us they can be trusted.

I never claimed Saki was conciously thinking of the danger, because that's exactly my point: she doesn't see Akira as a threat at those points of the story. It wouldn't be weird at all to do so, but she doesn't see the danger then and she has no reason to see it now.

But this discussion is a bit pointless, because as I said in my previous post, I agree with you that's she's not really scared or anything but just doing it for Hirasawa.
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Old 2009-05-17, 16:11   Link #90
taco
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To be honest, this episode truly made my mind boggle. It was really hard to understand. It looks like the whole episode was just rushed as they were talking about different topics one after another. I've only seen this episode once so I'll have to watch it one more time soon.
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Old 2009-05-17, 19:40   Link #91
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
Japanese working life is unfair and onerous, it appears to me, particularly in companies. I've had it explained to me that in certain jobs, you spend the whole day sucking up to customers and potential customers, then go back to the office at five and spend three hours doing the actual paperwork. Some nights, you go out drinking with your boss and coworkers after that. Bosses can be quite inconsiderate, bossy, and proud. And you can't get out of social events connected with work, of which there are many. You are more or less imprisoned with your workmates for forty years, until you are forced to retire. And if you don't voluntarily enter this hell, you are a weirdo to be shunned, a NEET, a hikikomori, a freeter.
Thank you! First time I see someone in this thread state what I couldn't with much simpler words.

That is what I meant by the discussion of what was a NEET and wasn't. Basically, anything that doesn't fall within the standard way of behaving will be socially stigmatized and will be called something.

Quote:
In that case I'll have to ask you were your source comes from, because to me it's not a matter of the "original meaning", but rather the general idea of what is a NEET according to the japanese and that I seemed to understand so far is different from what you are stating.
There are many good essays on Japanese work culture (Union-Management conflict in a Japanese Company, R.C. Clark, 1975; The Use and Meaning of Leisure in Present-Day Japan, Sepp Linhart, 1988 are some I read a year or so ago) that detail many of the things we find rather difficult to understand from the traditional way of doing things in Japan.

However, the way I understood it the most wasn't just from reading essays about it. A lot of it were independent conclusions I arrived to after talking to different people, both Japanese and Western, and through art and literature. I really never read anywhere any sort of dissertation on the meaning of NEET in Japan--however, after all I've learned about work culture in Japan, I can somewhat realize by myself just in what levels the meaning of that word will differ in Japan--especially after the way it's been used in this episode.

What does stand is that the idea that this show is somehow changing the meaning of the word NEET within the Japanese society is completely ridiculous from a linguistic standpoint. Especially if the show's trying to prove a point--that the perception of NEETs in Japanese society is bullshit.
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Old 2009-05-17, 22:39   Link #92
frubam
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Soooo.... what did Saki do with that image search thing that made it so bad, a girl quits because of it?
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Old 2009-05-17, 23:07   Link #93
~BC~
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Saki didn't do anything really. It was just that people started using the program for their own personal vendettas/indulgences. I imagine something like adding someone to the database and putting in false information about that person and causing rumors ( thus a girl dropping out of school).
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Old 2009-05-17, 23:17   Link #94
bekyuubi
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For the jazz song that plays in the background when they lit the fireworks, please refer to the opening theme and look at the text.

I saw you in Heaven
and heard of your glory
You saved our world from the fallen angels
I saw Messiah standing,
Standing before me with no words
Nothing but "Hope".
When we lost dread, a Demon was laughing
But now you are showing us wonder
Giving your love
With awe, down on my knees again
I've got to know you're the one,
The only one reveals the world

The King has come!
To lighten up our feet
The King has come!
To save us from the dark
Who could ever doubt? We have faith

Let me walk with you when I'm lost in the wild
I know you always lead me to another Eden
Let me bless your name, O Lord, O Lord!
Your words will never fade away
Since we believe you're the light on earth
Reveals the world

Hohoho. Took a while to realize.
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Old 2009-05-17, 23:55   Link #95
Azuma Denton
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Well if anyone ever watched Genshiken, then maybe some of the problem discussed here will be solved.

To (almost) anyone in Japan, if you are graduate from one educational institute (whether you're in School, University, or any other educational firm), you must work. Be it working in company or opening your own shop.

If not, then you'll be labeled a ronin. To people in Japan, the word Ronin, is equal to trash. "OMG, you're 22 and your parent still feeding you??" That comment will be heard.

And after you enter the company, well if i say, work environment in Japan is not the same as the western work environment. Fresh graduate worker will be suffering, either from the heavy load of work (we all know that Japanesse worker is a very hard worker) and as an object of joke and abuse from your senior and boss. You must please your boss and senior in drinking session, or you'll be isolated no matter how genius you are. Not to mention the famous sekuhara involving women worker.

And it happen to Saki. I think that's what the Eden's club aiming. They think they dont fit in the current social style. Going to company early in the morning, bowing down your head to your lousy boss and senior.

And if they're aiming to finish the image identifier software, they will have to work it for maybe years. And they will be still asking money from their parents or relative. And that is unproductive and so they think they will become NEET.
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Old 2009-05-18, 00:46   Link #96
SkoolRumble4Ya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bekyuubi View Post
For the jazz song that plays in the background when they lit the fireworks, please refer to the opening theme and look at the text.

I saw you in Heaven
and heard of your glory
You saved our world from the fallen angels
I saw Messiah standing,
Standing before me with no words
Nothing but "Hope".
When we lost dread, a Demon was laughing
But now you are showing us wonder
Giving your love
With awe, down on my knees again
I've got to know you're the one,
The only one reveals the world

The King has come!
To lighten up our feet
The King has come!
To save us from the dark
Who could ever doubt? We have faith

Let me walk with you when I'm lost in the wild
I know you always lead me to another Eden
Let me bless your name, O Lord, O Lord!
Your words will never fade away
Since we believe you're the light on earth
Reveals the world

Hohoho. Took a while to realize.
What do you mean by refer to the opening?
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Old 2009-05-18, 00:52   Link #97
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkoolRumble4Ya View Post
What do you mean by refer to the opening?
These text appears in the OP in disconnected paragraphs.

It's also Engrishy. If I'm correct, this is a mangled translation from a verse in the Book of Psalms.
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Old 2009-05-18, 01:38   Link #98
taco
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I watched ep 6 a second time but still confused.

Please tell me if I'm correct here because I'm not exactly sure:
Mittan created this image search engine for the mobile which uses the camera to identify people. The only thing you gotta do to use it is register on the site, and input personal who you are etc. I'm guessing Akira is interested because he wants to regain more of his memories and he thinks he can find out who he really is by using it.

Anymore info on this search engine? All it's done is get me confused and I think the fabsubbers were not that good on explaining it or maybe the creator himself is making it hard to understand.
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Old 2009-05-18, 08:10   Link #99
BetoJR
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I'd think that the image recognition software by itself would be quite a big deal, regardless of whatever added bonuses might be put upon it...
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Old 2009-05-18, 11:15   Link #100
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taco View Post
I watched ep 6 a second time but still confused.

Please tell me if I'm correct here because I'm not exactly sure:
Mittan created this image search engine for the mobile which uses the camera to identify people. The only thing you gotta do to use it is register on the site, and input personal who you are etc. I'm guessing Akira is interested because he wants to regain more of his memories and he thinks he can find out who he really is by using it.

Anymore info on this search engine? All it's done is get me confused and I think the fabsubbers were not that good on explaining it or maybe the creator himself is making it hard to understand.
The main thing is it will recognize stuff in a pile of trash, stuff that can then be useful. Watch the scene again and think about how the software could help the NEETs directly.

And I think this anime is going to end like Fight Club.. in awe over the sheer brilliance.
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