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Old 2009-05-20, 08:25   Link #221
Sol Falling
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...no, it's that Shirley wants to fix it. Disengaged/destructive attitude from lack of faith in the world --> someone who believes in his own happiness. Shirley isn't a masochist: Lelouch is cold to her --> she thinks he's stuck up; Lelouch is cold to the whole world yet bothers to help some traffic victims --> she wants to know what he's thinking.

Remember, this is just my opinion. :P If you really find it that confusing, feel free to stick with your own (sense making, and which don't lead to weird conclusions such as masochism) interpretations.
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Old 2009-05-20, 08:52   Link #222
yezhanquan
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Well, yes, she had a kind heart. Which is why CLAMP gave her a pair of angel wings. Best symbol in the whole series, IMO.
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Old 2009-05-20, 09:19   Link #223
Lolipopo
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Well, yes, she had a kind heart. Which is why CLAMP gave her a pair of angel wings. Best symbol in the whole series, IMO.
...Or maybe because she was dead.
(Dunno it striked me more at that than a reference to her "kind heart")
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Old 2009-05-20, 09:31   Link #224
yezhanquan
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...Or maybe because she was dead.
(Dunno it striked me more at that than a reference to her "kind heart")
I'll say: Both.
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Old 2009-05-20, 10:08   Link #225
incorrupts
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Well, yes, she had a kind heart. Which is why CLAMP gave her a pair of angel wings. Best symbol in the whole series, IMO.
Shirley, did have a kind heart {way too much, for her own good}, but CLAMP has a theme, of drawing wings and stuff, since '91, and X/1999 era.
However, the whole illustration is really beautiful and suits her character.
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Old 2009-05-20, 10:19   Link #226
Kid Ying
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
I'll say: Both.
I think it's more because of the way she was living. She was just living her life, minding her business and being nice with everyone. Kallen got a pair of black wings but that doesn't mean she's not kind, just that the path she choose would lead towards destruction, instead of Shiley. Ironically, Shirley is the one who died in the end.

But Inc is probably right. Maybe Clamp just put wings on everyone because they like, hehe. If you look for an image of X, you shall find some wings.
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Old 2009-05-20, 11:42   Link #227
darthfury78
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Originally Posted by Kid Ying View Post
I think it's more because of the way she was living. She was just living her life, minding her business and being nice with everyone. Kallen got a pair of black wings but that doesn't mean she's not kind, just that the path she choose would lead towards destruction, instead of Shiley. Ironically, Shirley is the one who died in the end.

But Inc is probably right. Maybe Clamp just put wings on everyone because they like, hehe. If you look for an image of X, you shall find some wings.
This was why I have often said that the two main women in Lelouch's life were Shirley and Milly.

Either one of them could have kept Lelouch falling into the Demon Path that led to his death.

And my comments excludes Nunnally, since she is his sister. And she was too late to save her brother.

Kallen never fell into the Shirley x Milly perspective that kept Lelouch amused.
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Old 2009-05-20, 12:10   Link #228
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by darthfury78 View Post
This was why I have often said that the two main women in Lelouch's life were Shirley and Milly.

Either one of them could have kept Lelouch falling into the Demon Path that led to his death.

And my comments excludes Nunnally, since she is his sister. And she was too late to save her brother.

Kallen never fell into the Shirley x Milly perspective that kept Lelouch amused.
None of them could have kept him off the path. Not Kallen, who Lelouch wouldn't let get close. Not Shirley, who wouldn't have been close to deal with it (alive or dead, she'd be at Ashford and Lelouch couldn't return). And not Milly, who was never even part of the equation.
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Old 2009-05-20, 13:57   Link #229
darthfury78
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
None of them could have kept him off the path. Not Kallen, who Lelouch wouldn't let get close. Not Shirley, who wouldn't have been close to deal with it (alive or dead, she'd be at Ashford and Lelouch couldn't return). And not Milly, who was never even part of the equation.
wanna bet?
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Old 2009-05-20, 14:01   Link #230
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Originally Posted by darthfury78 View Post
wanna bet?
If Nunnally couldn't do it, what makes you think that anyone else could. This was something more important and they'll thank him in the long long whether they agree with his decision or not.
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Old 2009-05-20, 14:07   Link #231
darthfury78
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..the outfit she planned for Villetta is enough of a proof of having a sex-drive toward females too? XD
Kidding, in fact, the main problem with this pairing is that she never showed any homosexual tendency... BUT!... Milly, on the contrary, is quite believable to be 'open' and if she is the one to take the initiative, well... who knows if she could not win Shirley with a love that steems from deep affection and friendship?

Okay, that's wild speculation, but you asked for it! XD

On average, I find Shirley a very likeable girl, but maybe the reason why she's not shown to be popular at school is that she's kind of shy and naive with boys.
I don't remember about the other girls, but only Milly is shown to be really popular in school, if I'm not wrong....
Milly does have an outgoing personality that would compliment with Lelouch's own.
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Old 2009-05-20, 14:09   Link #232
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by FruitsPunchSamurai View Post
If Nunnally couldn't do it, what makes you think that anyone else could. This was something more important and they'll thank him in the long long whether they agree with his decision or not.
Clovis could have done it!
Simply because he's Clovis, of course.

Errr... anyway.
Shirley is one of the very, very few "omg, I am completely head over heels for the protagonist!" characters I truly like. Whenever she wasn't just being a carefree school girl, her charme kind of hit me.
And the livejournal link thingy was an interesting read.
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Old 2009-05-20, 14:11   Link #233
FruitsPunchSamurai
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Clovis could have done it!
Simply because he's Clovis, of course.

Errr... anyway.
Shirley is one of the very, very few "omg, I am completely head over heels for the protagonist!" characters I truly like. Whenever she wasn't just being a carefree school girl, her charme kind of hit me.
And the livejournal link thingy was an interesting read.
Oh Nogitsune. you and your Clovis obsession!
I will never get why he's so damn popular
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Old 2009-05-20, 14:12   Link #234
Nogitsune
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Oh Nogitsune. you and your Clovis obsession!
I will never get why he's so damn popular
Yep, I'm hopeless. xD
But actually, I don't think he's all that popular. I know very few people who fangirl (or fanboy) him.
Which is sad, because Clovis is awesome. xD
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Old 2009-05-20, 14:23   Link #235
Nobodyman9
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
I'll say: Both.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FruitsPunchSamurai View Post
If Nunnally couldn't do it, what makes you think that anyone else could. This was something more important and they'll thank him in the long long whether they agree with his decision or not.
Nunnally never knew very much about what Lelouch was doing. I mean, after all, she was blind (in more than one sense of the word) Speaking of which, when did she get her heart-reading powers anyway? If she had had it the whole time and used it on Lelouch right away she could have saved everyone a lot of grief.

Anywho, I don't usually like to speculate on "could haves" but I don't think it's impossible that Shirley could have changed Lelouch. Kallen didn't really have a desire to change Lelouch since she was his loyal follower and looked to him for guidance. Milly, as it's been said, wasn't part of the equation. But if we go by what Sol said, Shirley definitely had a desire to help Lelouch. I think she was actually on a quite a role in Turn 13 until you-know-what happened.

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Originally Posted by FruitsPunchSamurai View Post
Oh Nogitsune. you and your Clovis obsession!
I will never get why he's so damn popular
Eh, he's not popular. Nogi just makes it seem that way
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Old 2009-05-20, 14:24   Link #236
FruitsPunchSamurai
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
Yep, I'm hopeless. xD
But actually, I don't think he's all that popular. I know very few people who fangirl (or fanboy) him.
Which is sad, because Clovis is awesome. xD
Well he did place number 1 in the US fan poll (Shirley placed fifth) but that may have just been trolling on the US fans part since Rivalz placed second
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Old 2009-05-20, 14:27   Link #237
Nobodyman9
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Well he did place number 1 in the US fan poll (Shirley placed fifth) but that may have just been trolling on the US fans part since Rivalz placed second
Eh, I remember that. And yeah, I'd say it was definitely trolling. Those results make absolutely no sense (well, except maybe Shirley being fifth )
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Old 2009-05-20, 14:29   Link #238
Nogitsune
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Eh, he's not popular. Nogi just makes it seem that way
May I hug? xD

Quote:
Originally Posted by FruitsPunchSamurai View Post
Well he did place number 1 in the US fan poll (Shirley placed fifth) but that may have just been trolling on the US fans part since Rivalz placed second
Yep, as far as I know, that was "trolling" after some community found out Clovis fanboyed Lelouch. Awesome trolling, though. xD
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Old 2009-05-20, 14:30   Link #239
FruitsPunchSamurai
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Eh, I remember that. And yeah, I'd say it was definitely trolling. Those results make absolutely no sense (well, except maybe Shirley being fifth )
Yeah considering the poll was made in the aftermath of her death, nice to know that at least she's remember fondly by the fanbase at that time (trolling aside of course).
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Old 2009-05-20, 14:35   Link #240
azul120
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Originally Posted by Kid Ying View Post
I think it's more because of the way she was living. She was just living her life, minding her business and being nice with everyone. Kallen got a pair of black wings but that doesn't mean she's not kind, just that the path she choose would lead towards destruction, instead of Shiley. Ironically, Shirley is the one who died in the end.

But Inc is probably right. Maybe Clamp just put wings on everyone because they like, hehe. If you look for an image of X, you shall find some wings.
But the first ending of R2, which was where Kallen was given the black wings, was thematically different. The characters with white wings were all part of Britannia and represented order, even the ones who had no problems with causing death and destruction (see: V. V., Gino, Charles, etc.). Kallen, Lelouch, and C. C., the ones with the black wings, represented the chaos in the form of rebellion against Britannia.

Shirley on the other hand was an outsider to the conflict, and her portrait as an angel in the end of R2 represented that she was dead, and that she represented pure angelic qualities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyman9
Kallen didn't really have a desire to change Lelouch since she was his loyal follower and looked to him for guidance.
I think Kallen, knowing his reasons for rebelling against Britannia that were not too far removed from her own, saw him as a kindred spirit and resolved to help him by seeing to their mutual goal of changing the world through conquering the Britannian order.
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