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Old 2009-05-31, 14:17   Link #2061
Yot-chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesie View Post
The only Famitsu article Shaloom translated was originally sourced here, although it seems to lead to a dead end - since I can't speak spanish, I'm not sure if this is a locked or deleted thread. It would be helpful for either to be confirmed.

Even if it's deleted, mentions and quotations of the commentaries first surfaced here on 2008-10-08, which got the attention of the forum. That gives a good starting point in tracing back issues before that date; you would be tracing seven Famitsu magazines that were published between 3rd of April and 10th of October. To narrow it down even further, the article describes fan reactions on Episode 24, so there's a high chance the Famitsu magazine in question would be the issue between 18/9/08 (the date the episode aired) to 8/10/08.

ETA: I'm withholding names and link of the post so I don't subject the user to attention.
Yeah, it's Famitsu #1035. One of the guys at MacrossWorld has it, and is trying to find a way to either scan it or send the whole magazine to bishopcruz.

I'm not sure how long it's going to take, though...feels like it's been ages already.

Anyway, he glanced at it and said "It doesn't seem to be the same interview as the one that's been making the rounds in English and Spanish."

As I said before, the scans I have seen of the issue (which I shared a page or so back), while too small to read, visibly have no episode commentary.

I also found a review of the issue here:

http://ameblo.jp/abstract1/entry-10146415805.html

But it doesn't say anything about the Kawamori interview.

There's also this:

http://kokubannnorakugaki.seesaa.net...107752362.html

Which is where I got the picture from, but the text isn't terribly helpful.

The most damning non-evidence I found, though (besides the non-existence of a story the Studio Nue Entertainment Bibles and the elusiveness of the radio show) was the fact that Shaloom said "The inclusion of Hiroshi Ohnogi to the staff of Macross Frontier caused furor in various Japanese forums, and actor Kenta Miyake (Bobby Margo) has invited him to the Macross Radio program for an interview. The program was broadcast on the Radio MBS, August 9, 2008."

I searched the Macross F BBS and the macross.co.jp BBS and found all of two references to Ohnogi, neither of which was about him having any involvement in Frontier. That doesn't sound like a "furor" to me.

But, as you said before, the show is still the show. Sheryl is still Sheryl. And Alto, for better or for worse, is still Alto. None of this should affect anyone's enjoyment of the show itself. (In fact, it should make everyone relax a bit about the movie. If Ohnogi was never involved, then it doesn't really matter that he's not writing the movie, right?)

But I don't believe all of this stuff about Ranka being "pampered" by Kawamori, or Kawamori saying that the movie CANNOT have a Sheryl-ending.

Nor do I believe that he originally planned to kill Sheryl off (although the episode commentaries say that Michael was originally slated to die by around episode 13, but the staff ended up liking him so much they let him live for a while longer).

As far as I can tell, the one thing Shaloom's notes really try to hammer home is that Kawamori really had it out for Sheryl, and was trying to shove Ranka down everyone's collective throat (not just the fans, but the staff, too). And that he would only change his mind with intense pressure from both the fanbase and the other staff members. And this is where I think Shaloom is mistaken. I don't know WHY he wants everyone to hate Kawamori so much, but that, I think, was his goal.
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Old 2009-05-31, 14:24   Link #2062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
I don't know WHY he wants everyone to hate Kawamori so much, but that, I think, was his goal.
That's just plain WEIRD. What, is he trying to get Kawamori back for Macross 7? Or Zero?
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Old 2009-05-31, 14:26   Link #2063
Yot-chan
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*checks the rules quickly...nope, nothing about double posting there.*
Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
magnuskn and Yot-chan, I just want to make it very clear that I don't place any blame on anyone...my question to magnuskn was whether he contacted Shaloom again after Yot-chan made a breakthrough on this issue. But from Yot-chan's post, it seems that Shaloom doesn't quite know the whole thing either...

Seems like this saga is about to be over, until anyone can find other proof to prove otherwise...so for now the verdict is: (using the voice of a judge with a hammer in hand) Ohnogi doesn't involve with MF at all, besides ep 10...and everyone should add rep to Yot-chan for discovering this issue XD
I didn't find it myself. Bishopcruz and magnuskn did a lot on their own, as well, as did a couple of other MacrossWorld people (including one who joined MacrossWorld SOLELY to comment on this issue, gave some sources, and then disappeared. Maybe he's on AS as well...?).

I don't know if magnus has talked to Shaloom, but bishopcruz sent of a message to him a while ago, which got no response. For my part, I emailed him this morning asking (nicely, I think) if he could provide some sources.

But so far, it seems like anyone asking for proof has gotten no answer from him. I'm hoping that bringing it here will force him to cough up SOMETHING.

I can't believe he simply made up the entire Bobby/Ohnogi interviews, and the quotes from the Ohnogi stories (especially the Max and Milia one) were rather nice.

And, based on his posts on MacrossWorld, Shaloom DOES have an extensive collection of Macross stuff...so it's always possible that he really does have some things no one else knows about.

I've got a lot on my translation plate right now, but if there are other Macross stories I don't know about, I want 'em!
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Old 2009-05-31, 14:33   Link #2064
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Originally Posted by abynormal View Post
That's just plain WEIRD. What, is he trying to get Kawamori back for Macross 7? Or Zero?
Couldn't be for Zero, since Ohnogi wrote that series.

I have no evidencef for this, but my best guess is that the "Triangler Ending" pissed him off SO much that he had to create a rationale for it.

Anyway...unless something comes out that proves Shaloom was right (unlikely, but possible), can we PLEASE stop referring to Kawamori as the Master Troll?

If (I'll say it again: IF) Shaloom did all of this deliberately, and with intention to deceive, then we know who the Master Troll is...and it ain't Kawamori.
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Old 2009-05-31, 14:54   Link #2065
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post

Anyway...unless something comes out that proves Shaloom was right (unlikely, but possible), can we PLEASE stop referring to Kawamori as the Master Troll?
Can we still refer to him as Hoary Froating Head?
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Old 2009-05-31, 14:59   Link #2066
justavisitor
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I don't find any episode of macross frontier is a troll at all lol...lot of ppl in here say how they dislike ep 25 etc..but the thing is, for this series, the director and staff find every possible chance to build up ranka and Alto plus Sheryl and Alto...whenever you see Ranka and Alto or Sheryl and Alto are together alone, some developments have to happen...so episode 25 just follows the trend and makes it an open ending, as simple as that...if the staff really wants a definite set of couple in the beginning, Alto will have a lot more of his inner thought revealed to the public...now we have only episode 23 for Ranka, episode 24 for Sheryl, and episode 25 for both

So none of the episode is a troll, and the series is not a troll lol..and since the series is not a troll, how can we say the director is a master troll?? , that's my opinion of course
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To all old and new Sheryl fans:
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Last edited by justavisitor; 2009-05-31 at 15:16.
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Old 2009-05-31, 15:28   Link #2067
Yot-chan
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Originally Posted by abynormal View Post
Can we still refer to him as Hoary Froating Head?

yes I said yes I will yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
I don't find any episode of macross frontier is a troll at all lol...lot of ppl in here say how they dislike ep 25 etc..but the thing is, for this series, the director and staff find every possible chance to build up ranka and Alto plus Sheryl and Alto...whenever you see Ranka and Alto or Sheryl and Alto are together alone, some developments have to happen...so episode 25 just follows the trend and makes it an open ending, as simple as that...if the staff really wants a definite set of couple in the beginning, Alto will have a lot more of his inner thought revealed to the public...now we have only episode 23 for Ranka, episode 24 for Sheryl, and episode 25 for both

So none of the episode is a troll, and the series is not a troll lol..and since the series is not a troll, how can we say the director is a master troll?? , that's my opinion of course
I liked the ending, too...but I can understand why people were upset about it. I'm first and foremost a Nanase fan, so while other people were getting worked up about whether their favorite girl would have Alto, I was getting worked up about whether MY favorite girl would even have CONSCIOUSNESS. (And talk about unresolved endings...did Nanase lose one of her eyes, or not? We never found out... And something tells me that that REALLY won't be addressed in the movie.)

Last edited by Yot-chan; 2009-05-31 at 15:28. Reason: HTML blunder
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Old 2009-05-31, 15:33   Link #2068
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@yot-chan

I thought they have a longer version about episode 25, and it describes that Nanase wakes up?? And Luca has just too much money, he will make sure that Nanase will be 100% healthy..and tech at that time can regain lost limb or eyes (don't ask me for proof, it's just a guess XD)

And since the movie is just a retelling, lots of stuff will change...she may not get injured at all in the movie....

Edit: and I thought if I dodged the confession in episode 24 (Alto never says i love someone in the series) then Alto would confess to Ranka like the way macross zero depicts (but at the end, Alto basically confesses to both ), so not only Sheryl fans are not happy lol, but again, not getting what we want doesn't mean it's a troll
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To all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet
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Old 2009-05-31, 15:38   Link #2069
Tak
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Well, Yot-Chan, you are now officially the only one Nanase fan as far as posters here are concerned

Because everyone wanted her to die :/

On the other hand, if memory serves, I do recall seeing the Japanese versions of the Ohnogi interview (which I read as well), thus why I even trusted the interview's existence and reliability in the first place.

But if that turns out not to be the case, then boy... talk about a major conspiracy?

- Tak
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Old 2009-05-31, 15:44   Link #2070
justavisitor
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hmm...I like Nanase also..and actually Sheryl's death would make the story more epic..so if I really want any character to die, it would be Sheryl for plot wise...(my opinion of course)
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To all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet
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Old 2009-05-31, 15:44   Link #2071
Yot-chan
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
@yot-chan

I thought they have a longer version about episode 25, and it describes that Nanase wakes up?? And Luca has just too much money, he will make sure that Nanase will be 100% healthy..and tech at that time can regain lost limb or eyes (don't ask me for proof, it's just a guess XD)

And since the movie is just a retelling, lots of stuff will change...she may not get injured at all in the movie....
Yeah, she opens her eye, same as in the show. The only difference in the extended cut is that instead of staring straight ahead as she did in the show, she looks over to where the door is. Big deal.

And yeah, I suppose Luca *could* make it all better...

"Hi, Macross Galaxy? This is Luca Angeloni of L.A.I. Since you lost your battle cruiser, I figure you'll be needing some quick cash to build another one. I've also heard you've got a lot of pretty blond street urchins, and, well, I'm betting some of them have really lovely eyes, and I'd like to take one of them off your hands. There'd be a nice little finder's fee for you, of course.........No, no! What do take me for!? It's nothing like that, it's just that I'd got a friend who had a little accident..."
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Old 2009-05-31, 15:50   Link #2072
Yot-chan
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Well, Yot-Chan, you are now officially the only one Nanase fan as far as posters here are concerned

Because everyone wanted her to die :/

On the other hand, if memory serves, I do recall seeing the Japanese versions of the Ohnogi interview (which I read as well), thus why I even trusted the interview's existence and reliability in the first place.

But if that turns out not to be the case, then boy... talk about a major conspiracy?

- Tak
Yeah...I'm MacrossWorld's only official Nanasist as well. Oh well, at least I have no competition!

And you read an Ohnogi interview about Frontier in Japanese? Hmmm...if you could find a link to that, I'd be grateful. My google-fu turned up nothing to connect Ohnogi to Bobby.

And then yes, why on earth would leave Ohnogi out of both 2059: Memories and the Macross F Official Fan Book. It makes no sense.
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Old 2009-05-31, 15:54   Link #2073
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
And you read an Ohnogi interview about Frontier in Japanese? Hmmm...if you could find a link to that, I'd be grateful. My google-fu turned up nothing to connect Ohnogi to Bobby.
Thats the problem. I only read it here.

As I said earlier, I have checked my sources in many East Asian sites, but came up with nothing about Ohnogi. The Japanese fan sites did not say anything about his involvement, neither did the Chinese-language fan sites.

As for Kawamori's opinion regarding Sheryl, in a very early interview on Famitsu just weeks after the show begin, he did state I was not convinced that Sheryl would be an important character. As the show progress, I had reasons to believe that he really wanted to kill Sheryl off or at least leave her at the side lines. From 10 ~ 18, Kawamori gave almost all exclusive spotlight to Ranka, while Sheryl remained sick. The entire profess where that took place seemed too convenient.

- Tak
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Old 2009-05-31, 17:01   Link #2074
Yot-chan
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Thats the problem. I only read it here.

As I said earlier, I have checked my sources in many East Asian sites, but came up with nothing about Ohnogi. The Japanese fan sites did not say anything about his involvement, neither did the Chinese-language fan sites.

As for Kawamori's opinion regarding Sheryl, in a very early interview on Famitsu just weeks after the show begin, he did state I was not convinced that Sheryl would be an important character. As the show progress, I had reasons to believe that he really wanted to kill Sheryl off or at least leave her at the side lines. From 10 ~ 18, Kawamori gave almost all exclusive spotlight to Ranka, while Sheryl remained sick. The entire profess where that took place seemed too convenient.

- Tak
Hmm...I think the question then is WHEN did he realize she was an important character. Too much, I think, has been made of the original triangle being Alto/Ranka/Brera during the planning stages.

For the first Macross series, during the planning stages, Minmay wasn't a singer. She wasn't even a major character. She was to be a waitress whose only role was trotting food up to the bridge. But during planning, the staff fell in love with her, and gave her a rather more central role.

If it's like that with Sheryl, then fine and good. If Kawmori didn't realize Sheryl was important until after episode 5, then we have a problem. Do you have any of the Frontier books? If we pool our resources going through the interviews, we might find something.

As for the shift in the story...well, yeah. Ranka definitely had the upper hand in episodes 12~19. I don't see why that means the staff was planning to kill Sheryl, though. It's the nature of drama. Twists and reversals of fortune are bound to happen. Besides, if someone in a science-fiction story is given an incurable disease early on in the story, isn't it par for the course for that character to get cured by the end?

I dunno. I never understood the hand-wringing about Sheryl's fate; Macross has rarely been a tragic series, and usually the leads all survive (Focker, Guld, and Aries being the only exceptions I can think of, and Focker and Aries were only arguably lead characters).

But yeah, if you want to work together, PM me. I'm not sure how fast I'll be, since I have a lot of OTHER (Macross-related) translation stuff I'm working on, but I should be able to squeeze sout some interviews now and then.
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Old 2009-05-31, 17:24   Link #2075
Tak
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
If it's like that with Sheryl, then fine and good. If Kawmori didn't realize Sheryl was important until after episode 5, then we have a problem. Do you have any of the Frontier books? If we pool our resources going through the interviews, we might find something.
That is actually the implication. Kawamori did state that he had to rewrite some scenes only after episode 5 when he received massive fan mail regarding Sheryl's character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
I dunno. I never understood the hand-wringing about Sheryl's fate; Macross has rarely been a tragic series, and usually the leads all survive (Focker, Guld, and Aries being the only exceptions I can think of, and Focker and Aries were only arguably lead characters).
ZERO for me was quite tragic. At the end, it would appear most of the major characters (hero or villain) died off. Sure, arguments can be made that Sara and Shin went to a better place, but that might be stretching it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
But yeah, if you want to work together, PM me. I'm not sure how fast I'll be, since I have a lot of OTHER (Macross-related) translation stuff I'm working on, but I should be able to squeeze sout some interviews now and then.
I do like to work with you. Unfortunately, I have little time to spare due to my work & school, so I don't know how fast I can be. Right now, I will have to hold back on that thought until a later time. I am actually writing my papers as we speak

- Tak
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Old 2009-05-31, 17:45   Link #2076
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I do like to work with you. Unfortunately, I have little time to spare due to my work & school, so I don't know how fast I can be. Right now, I will have to hold back on that thought until a later time. I am actually writing my papers as we speak

- Tak
Ah. I understand. I'll look through all the Kawamori interviews I have to see if there are any interesting bits...

As for Zero...yeah, it was tragic overall, come to think of it.

Although I like to think that Shin and Sara ended up hanging out with Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay at the center of the galaxy.
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Old 2009-06-01, 00:08   Link #2077
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Although I like to think that Shin and Sara ended up hanging out with Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay at the center of the galaxy.
I always figured they end up running into each other at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe. XD
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Old 2009-06-01, 00:27   Link #2078
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Here are the next three. Translating the credits is a real pain, so I'll only do it if enough people ask. Suffice to say that Hiroyuki Yoshino is listed as the scriptwriter for all 25 episodes, and for the episodes here, Kawamori did the storyboards for (naturally) episode 7.

Again, many, many thanks to Renato for checking my translations. #07 is about half written by him.


#06 - Bye-Bye Sheryl
Background story arcs that continue to the end of the series. Not only an episode about Sheryl's earring, but also the first time Alto becomes aware of himself truly going into battle. The story's "school life" ratio lessened, and it shifted from that more familiar world to the world of war. I wonder, did we express that feeling? In terms of showing off mecha, we have the scene featuring the launch of the Macross Quarter.

#07 First Attack
For the previous two episodes, there had been no battle scenes, so we wanted to show the fight in a lot of detail. It seems like the Monster fans got especially excited. Because there had never been an episode in which the events unfolded entirely parallel to a concert performance, it was a worthwhile challenge. The deep resonance between the hearts of Ranka and Sheryl was first shown here, and naturally everyone got very excited about this.

#08 - High School Queen
We did the episode about Sheryl's underwear because Yoshino said that he absolutely HAD to do it (laughs). But Ranka's costume definitely came from me. Animal costumes are so common, so how about a vegetable...OF COURSE! A CARROT!, I thought. Likewise, because Sheryl taking the Entertainer Course at Mihoshi High would just be too predictable, we listened to the staff's desire: "We want to see Sheryl in an EX-gear!"

And here are the sources:
Spoiler for Japanese Text:


Spoiler for Big Image:
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Old 2009-06-01, 01:24   Link #2079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Here are the next three. Translating the credits is a real pain, so I'll only do it if enough people ask. Suffice to say that Hiroyuki Yoshino is listed as the scriptwriter for all 25 episodes, and for the episodes here, Kawamori did the storyboards for (naturally) episode 7.

Again, many, many thanks to Renato for checking my translations. #07 is about half written by him.


#06 - Bye-Bye Sheryl
Background story arcs that continue to the end of the series. Not only an episode about Sheryl's earring, but also the first time Alto becomes aware of himself truly going into battle. The story's "school life" ratio lessened, and it shifted from that more familiar world to the world of war. I wonder, did we express that feeling? In terms of showing off mecha, we have the scene featuring the launch of the Macross Quarter.

#07 First Attack
For the previous two episodes, there had been no battle scenes, so we wanted to show the fight in a lot of detail. It seems like the Monster fans got especially excited. Because there had never been an episode in which the events unfolded entirely parallel to a concert performance, it was a worthwhile challenge. The deep resonance between the hearts of Ranka and Sheryl was first shown here, and naturally everyone got very excited about this.

#08 - High School Queen
We did the episode about Sheryl's underwear because Yoshino said that he absolutely HAD to do it (laughs). But Ranka's costume definitely came from me. Animal costumes are so common, so how about a vegetable...OF COURSE! A CARROT!, I thought. Likewise, because Sheryl taking the Entertainer Course at Mihoshi High would just be too predictable, we listened to the staff's desire: "We want to see Sheryl in an EX-gear!"

And here are the sources:
Spoiler for Japanese Text:


Spoiler for Big Image:
Once again, hontoni arigato to both you and Renato for all of this work Seems like Yoshino is the rabid Sheryl fan in there Still, I can't wait for the later episodes to see what Kawamori's comments are and what else Yoshino has to say about Sheryl
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Old 2009-06-02, 01:06   Link #2080
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Well, Yot-Chan, you are now officially the only one Nanase fan as far as posters here are concerned

Because everyone wanted her to die :/



- Tak
That's a lie! I would not let a lady with nice boo... eyes die D:
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