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Old 2009-06-03, 23:33   Link #1121
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lixuelai View Post
Never said anything about otakus. Anime is not necessarily otaku culture. Just like manga isnt. Otaku can be anything that is taken to an extreme/obsession.
Right, but what are we talking about here?
If you're an adult who takes an interest into anime culture, you're precieved as an otaku.
Well, it depends on the type of anime, and it depends on who you're talking to.

But trust me, if you come over here and say you like anime, quite a few people will label you otaku. That's what a stereotype is.
Manga is a totally different story. Manga is much, MUCH more accepted hobby than anime for adults.

Seriously, take my word for granted. There's a quite a difference between you hearing about Japan, and me living in Japan for decades.
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Old 2009-06-03, 23:38   Link #1122
yezhanquan
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I guess it's just like everywhere else: it's basic courtesy to test your audience first on where they stand, before going into greater detail.

IMO, I treat Disney film audience and adult Marvel comic readers the same way. Heck, I dare say I respect a Marvel fan who can sort out the various timelines properly. The multiverse stuff hurts my brain really badly.
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Old 2009-06-03, 23:42   Link #1123
npcomplete
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I guess this relates to that other thread regarding the usage of "otaku" but even if they label you as one, do they mean it in any spiteful or hateful way?

For example, over here, displaying interest and discussing about computers, science and other similar areas will get you labeled as a geek or nerd. But there's no good or bad connotation that's inherent in that label. A friend might describe someone as "nice but pretty geeky".
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Old 2009-06-03, 23:45   Link #1124
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npcomplete View Post
I guess this relates to that other thread regarding the usage of "otaku" but even if they label you as one, do they mean it in any spiteful or hateful way?

For example, over here, displaying interest and discussing about computers, science and other similar areas will get you labeled as a geek or nerd. But there's no good or bad connotation that's inherent in that label. A friend might describe someone as "nice but pretty geeky".
That depends on the person.
He/she could be "oh geez, a geek", "guy must be immature", "coolness I found a friend" or a Shibuya gals would probably go "eeeeewwww sick"
Women in general tend to show less tolerance of anime fans. Coming out as anime fans to girls will always be a challenge.

Labeling of geek is pretty close to it, except geeks gets more respect these days, thanks to the IT world.
Gotta say thanks to Mr. Gates for that. The guy's a stereotypical geek, but his success in the American Dream earns him mucho respect.
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Old 2009-06-03, 23:53   Link #1125
yezhanquan
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On Bill Gates, people also tend to forget that he's at least an amateur Chessmaster (see TV Tropes). The fact that he was never ousted in Microsoft (unlike Steve Jobs from Apple) says something.
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Old 2009-06-04, 00:11   Link #1126
lixuelai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Right, but what are we talking about here?
If you're an adult who takes an interest into anime culture, you're precieved as an otaku.
Well, it depends on the type of anime, and it depends on who you're talking to.

But trust me, if you come over here and say you like anime, quite a few people will label you otaku. That's what a stereotype is.
Manga is a totally different story. Manga is much, MUCH more accepted hobby than anime for adults.

Seriously, take my word for granted. There's a quite a difference between you hearing about Japan, and me living in Japan for decades.
I was just talking about "anime for non-anime fan". Point being that I doubt anyone would be like "ewww anime" when they grew up watching that stuff. I find it hard to believe that the non family fare stuff from series like Nana to films like Sky Crawlers are all otaku fare as they are obviously not aimed at kids.

Anyway my impression was from studying abroad at a Japanese university and the otaku I knew (and everyone else labeled as such) was someone who takes pictures of the galge section at the local software store so he can download it at his leisure. Maybe the standards of being an otaku is higher in Uni... But anyway not doubting your experiences, just that the perception from a different age group may be different.
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Old 2009-06-04, 00:22   Link #1127
aohige
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Well, you're clearly not believing me.

Quote:
Point being that I doubt anyone would be like "ewww anime" when they grew up watching that stuff.
I don't know what to say about this, other than simply, you're wrong.
You're thinking logically, but stereotypes are not logical.
And no, they are not going "ewww anime". They are going "ewww you watch anime and you're 30 years old"

Quote:
Anyway my impression was from studying abroad at a Japanese university and the otaku I knew (and everyone else labeled as such) was someone who takes pictures of the galge section at the local software store so he can download it at his leisure. Maybe the standards of being an otaku is higher in Uni...
University is a totally different story.
University is where the line is drawn between child and adult.
It's still comparatively acceptable to have hobbies percieved as childish still. You're a student.

Of course not all anime is made for kids. DUH.
That's not the point. The point is, people see anime as something for kids (and geeks), whether they are right or wrong is totally out of the question.
That's exactly what a STEREOTYPE is. Stereotype is set by what people think about a group of people, not what really represents them.

And let me add, "galge" is one of the most geeky thing to be caught with.
If you're an adult in the working world, and is seen liking galge, you'll be most definitely labeled an otaku by the vast majority. Only thing worse than galge would be eroge.

Seriously, why don't you move to Japan and see it for yourself?
Live there for 10 years or so, and you'll understand what I mean.
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Old 2009-06-04, 00:25   Link #1128
yezhanquan
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The old rule of thumb for stereotypes: It is foolish to believe 100% of it, or 0% of it. There are nuggets of truth within each stereotype. Nothing is more fun than to stun people who judge you by stereotypes with actions which would be "clearly" non-stereotypical.
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Old 2009-06-04, 00:30   Link #1129
lixuelai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Well, you're clearly not believing me.


I don't know what to say about this, other than simply, you're wrong.
You're thinking logically, but stereotypes are not logical.
And no, they are not going "ewww anime". They are going "ewww you watch anime and you're 30 years old"



University is a totally different story.
University is where the line is drawn between child and adult.
It's still comparatively acceptable to have hobbies percieved as childish still. You're a student.

Of course not all anime is made for kids. DUH.
That's not the point. The point is, people see anime as something for kids (and geeks), whether they are right or wrong is totally out of the question.
That's exactly what a STEREOTYPE is. Stereotype is set by what people think about a group of people, not what really represents them.

And let me add, "galge" is one of the most geeky thing to be caught with.
If you're an adult in the working world, and is seen liking galge, you'll be most definitely labeled an otaku by the vast majority. Only thing worse than galge would be eroge.

Seriously, why don't you move to Japan and see it for yourself?
Live there for 10 years or so, and you'll understand what I mean.
Hopefully I get to spend 10 years in Japan. Looking to get my Masters there. Maybe I will ascend to the next level of otaku-ness by that time.
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Old 2009-06-04, 00:32   Link #1130
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lixuelai View Post
Hopefully I get to spend 10 years in Japan. Looking to get my Masters there. Maybe I will ascend to the next level of otaku-ness by that time.
Well, hopefully, we'll outnumber the uninformed majority by then, and take over Japan.

But seriously, the number of anime fans are growing each decade, and once the oldbags up there are replaced by the current generation (including current NEETs), anime will probably be a much more tolerable hobby in the majority.
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Old 2009-06-04, 00:32   Link #1131
Vexx
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I remember arguments like this when I was in New York on a project and the New York engineers would try to tell me (7th gen native Texan, raised in Texas) what Texas was like, when most of their knowledge came from the tv series "Dallas", "Urban Cowboy".

So I may discuss culture with a native and bring up things they may not be aware of... but there's always going to be "you're actually there and I'm not".

Views on anime are changing.. with every funeral (old science joke... science improves with the funeral of every crusty recalcitrant scientist).
When I played D&D in the 1980s I actually had to deal with people who seriously thought I and my friends were engaging in Satanism. Of course, they were Baptists and also claimed that Methodists were Satanists so YMMV
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Old 2009-06-04, 00:36   Link #1132
aohige
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I remember arguments like this when I was in New York on a project and the New York engineers would try to tell me (7th gen native Texan, raised in Texas) what Texas was like, when most of their knowledge came from the tv series "Dallas", "Urban Cowboy".

So I may discuss culture with a native and bring up things they may not be aware of... but there's always going to be "you're actually there and I'm not".
But Texans really do drive pick up trucks, and have funny accents!
It's amazing how many pick-up trucks you see in Dallas.
And for every one hundred middle aged white man you see, you'll see 1 or 2 guys wearing cowboy hats and boots.

BTW, Japanese stereotype of Texas is deserts, cowboys, and tumbleweeds everywhere.
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Old 2009-06-04, 00:42   Link #1133
lixuelai
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Curious, say a girl says she watches anime. Stuff like Nana and HachiKuro. How is she perceived?
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Old 2009-06-04, 00:44   Link #1134
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lixuelai View Post
Curious, say a girl says she watches anime. Stuff like Nana and HachiKuro. How is she perceived?
Girls are usually off the hook, if they're watching the likes of NANA.
NANA is one of the few exceptions I mentioned in the previous page.

If they're watching say, PreCure and they're in the 20s, they'll be seen somewhat child-ish, but again is let off the hook more so than guys.
Unfair, isn't it?

If they're watching say, Bleach and talking yaoi fantasies, then they are thrown into the fujoshi classification.

Girls in otakudom gets away with a lot of stuff.
For example, shoujo manga aimed at young girls can get away with depiction of sex, even underage sex... but it's a big taboo in shounen manga for boys.
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Old 2009-06-04, 00:56   Link #1135
bhl88
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I noticed.
@aohige:
'Cause they probably think:

Influenced:

Boys > Girls

Crime

Boys > Girls (I watch news... including surfing at blogs so I hardly see a news about: 'a girl gets arrested for... xyz')

There are even a few tropes in TV Tropes that dismisses the girls' faults:


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Old 2009-06-09, 16:15   Link #1136
noraemon
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Because a topic of otaku seems to be talked about, I write recognition about otaku in Japan.
otaku is words to show the person who devotes itself to the hobby that a social cognitive degree is not high.
There are two kinds in otaku.
(1) "The expendability otaku" who spends income and the most of the off time for a hobby
(2) The "psychology-related otaku" "creative otaku" who wants to spread one's hobby around

Otaku is the words that have been used from 1980's in Japan. It was used for the single Japanese man who had a hobby (an anime and comics, an idol, a TV game, a computer) recognized for a hobby and the world of the child at that time.
However, in late years, as for the words called the otaku, coverage spreads out. It is not words only as for pointing with the person who regards an anime and comics as a hobby.
It is used by a person with a scientific hobby and a person with various hobbies.
The otaku becomes the words that are used for the woman.

However, I am disappointed, but the words of a negative image are not wrong.

I am sorry in clumsy English.
Please hear it if you want to know Japanese culture.
I answer in the range that I know.
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Old 2009-06-09, 16:38   Link #1137
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noraemon View Post
Because a topic of otaku seems to be talked about, I write recognition about otaku in Japan.
otaku is words to show the person who devotes itself to the hobby that a social cognitive degree is not high.
There are two kinds in otaku.
(1) "The expendability otaku" who spends income and the most of the off time for a hobby
(2) The "psychology-related otaku" "creative otaku" who wants to spread one's hobby around

Otaku is the words that have been used from 1980's in Japan. It was used for the single Japanese man who had a hobby (an anime and comics, an idol, a TV game, a computer) recognized for a hobby and the world of the child at that time.
However, in late years, as for the words called the otaku, coverage spreads out. It is not words only as for pointing with the person who regards an anime and comics as a hobby.
It is used by a person with a scientific hobby and a person with various hobbies.
The otaku becomes the words that are used for the woman.

However, I am disappointed, but the words of a negative image are not wrong.

I am sorry in clumsy English.
Please hear it if you want to know Japanese culture.
I answer in the range that I know.
No, you were perfectly understandable. Some of the phrases were a bit unusual but the meaning is clear. This is a good place to practice your English and we like hearing from people such as you.

I think many fans forget that the word "otaku" also has a regular meaning that is not slang.

In *your* experience, is the perception of otaku improving slowly? Are enough otaku becoming part of daily society to reduce the public perception that all otaku are dangerous and creepy?

(I know what aohige and others think, just want to see what noraemon's experience is)
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Old 2009-06-09, 20:48   Link #1138
Yotsuba
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I agree, I've also lived in Japan and manga is accepted as a hobby for adults (to a point) but anime isn't really. Watching a couple anime isn't really looked down upon, in my experience, but then again I'm a girl. No one ever blinked an eye that me and my girlfriends watched HachiKuro or Naruto, etc. It was pretty normal. Most the girls in my class watched it, actually. We all read Weekly Jump, as well.
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Old 2009-06-10, 05:03   Link #1139
BASS in SPACE
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I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I'd rather not look through 50+ pages of this thread and the search function didn't seem to come up with anything, so here I go. First I'll just link to a video on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5O1m...e=channel_page

For those who couldn't be bothered, I'll just summarise the video. Basically he was talking about sexual harassment on Japan's trains. Apparently, it's not too rare to see old or middle aged men rubbing up against girls in a crowded train. Is this really true? And would people really not do anything about it because "they are too afraid of standing out"? And in the case of the girls themselves, would they really prefer to have some guy they'd never met before rub his joint against them rather than shout out or at the very least, tell him to stop?
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Old 2009-06-10, 06:18   Link #1140
Mystique
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
You know, I've yet to experience a sexuhara train experience yet.
My white female classmates claim they did during our year out, I was feeling somewhat left out xD

As for people not doing anything about it, yeah they usually 'gaman shite' it. (endure it)
Apparently to cause a public outcry or to even physically retaliate if someone hit you is to cause more trouble on your end than the original perpetrator (lame...)

As for the girls, well one can't really speak for the general mass, can we?
I'm sure most do not appreciate it, but again won't say anything and will simply 'gaman shite' it.

On a few JR trains and esp the Tokyo metro, the last carts are 'female only' from 7.30am-9.30am (or so) to kinda help avoid that kinda thing.

I guess men are kinda rowdy in the morning? >.>
As for seeing it... I think I must have 'anti japanese craziness' shades on, I've yet to notice tbh...
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