The Gundam 00 Armchair Generals' Thread

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Their size works against them, and a Gundam has more than enough power to damage them.

Damage them, yes. Destroy something 2,000 feet in diameter, with probably plenty of structural redundancy as required by something that size? I doubt it.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by brightman

Damage them, yes. Destroy something 2,000 feet in diameter, with probably plenty of structural redundancy as required by something that size? I doubt it.

Structural redundancy? Don't you mean "Disaster waiting to happen"? It wouldn't take much to make the whole thing fall in on itself.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Why didn't Ali destroy the Elevators once he had his Gundam? His past behavior as a terrorist and "war instigator" was anti-Solarpower. Why not take the oppurtunity to start some real fighting and instability, while getting some personal satisfaction?

While Ali certainly delights in conflict, he doesn't seem to be someone who does things for random reasons. It's unlikely that he'd just randomly attack an elevator and make himself an enemy of all of the power blocs without damned good reason. Since all of the major governments are firmly invested in their elevators, there's no way he'd be able to profit from such an act of wanton destruction.

Originally Posted by brightman

Damage them, yes. Destroy something 2,000 feet in diameter, with probably plenty of structural redundancy as required by something that size? I doubt it.

The evidence is contradictory in regards to the structure of the elevators. They're enormous artifices spanning anywhere from 1-2km in diameter at their base, and the structural design of the elevator gives it great strength. By most measures, it should hold against all but the strongest attacks.

However, we've already seen a major chunk of the HRL's portion of the orbital ring get knocked off by random shots of the Tieren Taozi's relatively small gun. I'd hope that the elevators were well designed enough to withstand major damage, but the technology in Gundam 00 hasn't really been portrayed very consistently, so it's hard to say.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

While Ali certainly delights in conflict, he doesn't seem to be someone who does things for random reasons. It's unlikely that he'd just randomly attack an elevator and make himself an enemy of all of the power blocs without damned good reason. Since all of the major governments are firmly invested in their elevators, there's no way he'd be able to profit from such an act of wanton destruction.

He already is an enemy of pretty much everybody. He's just good at hiding who is. And he's not interested in profit, he's interested in lulz and fighting. He seems the sort who'd thrive in a chaotic, war-wrought, enviroment. The only downside for him is his job of being a warmonger would become harder and more in demand afterwards.

[Terra]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

However, we've already seen a major chunk of the HRL's portion of the orbital ring get knocked off by random shots of the Tieren Taozi's relatively small gun. I'd hope that the elevators were well designed enough to withstand major damage, but the technology in Gundam 00 hasn't really been portrayed very consistently, so it's hard to say.

It was hardly a major chunk, and definately not structural. Plus it also happened to be one of the gravitational areas so it had the spining to also act as a weakener. The loss of the support cables combined with the spinning made it give easier than what a non-gravitational area would have done. Plus it's size is a lot smaller than what the elevator is. And it's not like they expected one of their own to go shooting at it out of control.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

He already is an enemy of pretty much everybody. He's just good at hiding who is. And he's not interested in profit, he's interested in lulz and fighting. He seems the sort who'd thrive in a chaotic, war-wrought, enviroment. The only downside for him is his job of being a warmonger would become harder and more in demand afterwards.

I don't think that Ali's such a shallow character that he has no motivation for doing evil things other than the sake of evil or perverseness. There has to be some deeper reasons for what he does, so there should be some sort of incentive for his actions.

Originally Posted by Terra

It was hardly a major chunk, and definately not structural. Plus it also happened to be one of the gravitational areas so it had the spining to also act as a weakener. The loss of the support cables combined with the spinning made it give easier than what a non-gravitational area would have done. Plus it's size is a lot smaller than what the elevator is. And it's not like they expected one of their own to go shooting at it out of control.

The chunk was some 100m x 100m x 150m - that's about 90% the volume of a World Trade Center tower. While it's small compared to the whole elevator, I'd still expect something this big to have an awful lot of sturctural supports to keep it together, but Souma demonstrated that this wasn't the case. Moreover, the elevators had already been attacked, so one would hope that they prepared for that eventuality.

I'd also expect the elevators themselves to be much more impervious to attack, but the previous case doesn't lend that expectation all that much confidence.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I don't think that Ali's such a shallow character that he has no motivation for doing evil things other than the sake of evil or perverseness. There has to be some deeper reasons for what he does, so there should be some sort of incentive for his actions.

He was pretty evil and perverted when he killed Kinue. Even freaked her out before doing so.

Shallowness seems to be the one trait shared by all characters in OO. Might change in the second season, but I don't think that's fair to the viewer.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

He was pretty evil and perverted when he killed Kinue. Even freaked her out before doing so.

Still, Ali killed her for a motive beyond the sheer perverseness of it. This motive would not apply in a hypothetical attack against the elevators.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Shallowness seems to be the one trait shared by all characters in OO. Might change in the second season, but I don't think that's fair to the viewer.

While I agree that the characterizations in Gundam 00 were generally quite weak, it's another thing altogether to claim that they were utterly shallow. I think that Ali's portrayal has already done enough to establish that he has an overriding reason behind everything he has done so far. Perhaps, the second season will fail on this front, but it wouldn't be inconsistent to flesh his character out more.

[JMvS]

I think it was show in in episode 1 that the solar energy ring was protected by a kind of energy field (one of the terrorists Hellion blew up against it).
And I may be mistaken but I think I have read somewhere that the pillars where likewise protected against micrometeorites and atmospheric erosion.

Considering the resilience of the Solar Energy system, there's a huge difference between important structural parts like the pillars which support several Gt suspended from geostationary orbit, and a small inhabitation torus.

Regarding the Pillars, they for sure would be several times redudants, as they carry a lot of "dead load": we can assume they are made of E-carbon wires, but they have to support their own weigth but also several maglev systems, hangars, and others useless (and heavy) things...

[Papaya]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science...lar/index.html

COMING SOON TO A SPACE ELEVATOR NEAR YOU

[Dean_the_Young]

For the record, the early intro's for the series confirm that the Orbital Elevators are "fragile from a structural standpoint, making them very difficult to defend."

Not that Ali's had any interest in destroying them, but it's very likely a rogue gundam could put one out of commission very easily.

[Double 120%]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Why didn't Ali destroy the Elevators once he had his Gundam? His past behavior as a terrorist and "war instigator" was anti-Solarpower. Why not take the oppurtunity to start some real fighting and instability, while getting some personal satisfaction?

Most likely Ribbons would just shut down Ali's suit if he tried anything outside of Ribbons plans.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Graham's survival has more than once been due to the speed and manuverability of the Custom Flag alone, not his "skill." Ali is the only pilot who can credibly claim to rely on skill more than machine AND skill.

The amazing thing about Graham piloting the Custom Flag is the drawbacks.The most obvious being the lack of G-Dampeners as stated,even the other Overflag pilots didn't dare take that out.Also, the Custom Flag being designed for Anti-Gundam warfare,has some anti-beam coating on it

The Gundams have high performence without much drawbacks,Graham had to take out all the pilot safety limitations.The GN Flag wasn't even meant to be used in space.

The other drawbacks of the Custom Flag include a much weaker armor,and has much less fuel[This could be related to the lighter armor,since the Flags store their hydrogen fuel on the armor,the hydrogen itself being stored in the empty space in the middle of the carbons,which the armor is made from] as noted by Fon in 00F.Also piloted the Masuruo;which has no G-Dampeners either or much armor,at full speed Trans-Am,againts 00 a suit that has high performence in multiple field[Defence,beam attacks,melee,speed etc].That's Graham style,as always.

Originally Posted by allenephilim88

Well, it depends. In the case of the HRL I would make an alliance with either the AEU or the Union. The reason??? I seriously believe that HRL military technology is behind compared to the other blocks (a normal flag or an realdo is definitely more effective than a Tieren). The gundams can defeat a tieren pretty easy, but not a flag or another mobile suit. The most viable alliance would be with the AEU, because they still haven't finished the orbital elevator and they could strengthen their military with the help of the HRL. Besides, it would be great to see Sergei and colonel Manekin working together (imagine the strategies they would use to capture the gundams).

One of the 00V chapter,forgot which one[Something to do with a Tieren],mentions that the HRL usage of the Tieren had a specific purpose and not because their technology is inferior.Although the Tieren is less advanced,it has proven to be very reliable and in terms of mechanical failures,is much much more lower than the Flags or Enacts.This is because the Tieren uses technology that is already common and well known,thus it's known to be more reliable and the engineers are familiar with it.Because the Flags/Enact use more advance technology,they tend to fail more often,require more maintenance and are less reliable.

My own added reasoning:They're probably cheaper to make as well,and being the largest bloc in population,this may be helpful.

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Also even if GN particles can block transmissions I'd assume there is a particular frequency that is unaffected used by CB.

Celestial Being has been using light communication technology,it's been referenced in S2 a few times[I remember hearing that it was mentioned in some external sources as well,but I can't recall this sources].In episode S207,Sergei used his GNX III to communicate with Cherudim,this is one example of it's usage albeit a very simple one.It's been mentioned in S209 as well,Feldt said that one of the A-LAWS suits sent Kati's message to Sumeragi through it.

It's not perfect,smoke has a tendency to jam it,as seen in S207 as well,and in S202,Ptolymy used their missles [Not sure whether they used smoke for this one,but the flash remind me of fire crackers]to jam A-LAWs communications slightly,you can see Ginin's Ahead their screen flicker slightly.In the case of S207,after 00's Trans-Am accident,the effect was almost full jamming for a little while.The jamming effect is temporary though,it's not like it's a full extended blackout for a olong time or anything,but it can be jam for a quick duration of time.