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Old 2009-06-06, 04:09   Link #81
Prestige
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Its a futile time waste of trying to have an argument people who have entirely diffent taste.

No doubt they rate this weeks Bleach chapter many times better than OP chapter and if you read Bleach too you can see how twisted their taste of manga is...

They like diffrent manga, they dont appreciate plot, good phase, comedy and charecter relationships, they dont understand OP but they still read it and bash it because it doesnt please their particular needs, if OP would be such as they would want it to be this wouldnt have much diffrence than Bleach, who is entirely diffrent type of manga.

Some people read mangas for only fighting,powerups and art while others read it for story,comedy,adventure and charecters.

Phenomenom and Mold have such entirely diffrent point of view and diffrent things they want that when they read OP that they are always left dissapointed and bored.

Its excatly how I feel after reading each Bleach chapter, we simply enjoy diffrent things on mangas,what we love they despite and what they love we could find them boring..

Having arguments with such people is truely waste of time because you cant force to change their taste of manga just like you cant force everyone like boiled eggs.
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Old 2009-06-06, 04:18   Link #82
Z. Kensei
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Another awesom chapter from this arc. I love the way thing's are building up, Magellan hot on luffy's tail only to be stopped by Mr 3! Magellan's looking pretty unbeatable right now, I don't know if he'll stall him for long. Magellan's hydra power's just might burn through 3's wax. Now im hoping some strong people come off those ship's. Like Smoker, or Coby. Either way i hope Luffy make's it in time.
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Old 2009-06-06, 04:25   Link #83
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^While I do not agree that the opposite of appreciation is criticism (I did get a degree in Film Theory and Criticism after all, and I didn't get the degree because of any lack of appreciation for the medium ), I do have to admit I am interested to see if you can sink as low as your "opponents" and whether anyone will learn anything from such a lesson...
Well, I'm an art student and I do understand both appreciation and criticism.

Constructive criticism is always needed, but a critic who's clouded by his own views is just a someone who fails to appreciate. And of course someone clouded by the good will fail to see the bad. When you let the good or bad outweigh each other in either ways, you end up on both sides of the coin.

But why bother with the bad if you're out to enjoy? If you're out to enjoy, why not look on the pros and let it outweigh the cons?

And my method once worked over at the Clannad subforum. Of course I was labeled as being as childish as my target, in the end my target learnt his mistake.

I don't know, while we are enjoying ourselves with this arc, some people are just looking from a wrong direction.
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Old 2009-06-06, 05:13   Link #84
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I personally have enjoyed the Impel down Arc, but only because I consider it just an extension of Sabaody Archipelao. Some how I don't see the big show down with Magellan, it just doesn't seem like the focus since my feeling we're going to get the cliche save ace at the public execution. Also when luffy has to actually sets out to defeat a big boss its intentional and its because he's done something inherently evil of his own accord, and usually because someone has done something to his nakama.
(Arlong and Nami, Don Krieg and Sanji, Vivi and Crocodile, Robin and CP9, Ussop and Captain Kuro, Brooke and Moria)

It also seems he's either avoided or not completed major fights when he didn't have this incentive. Though lack of power has been factor. Smoker/Aokiji/Kuma are examples. In these cases the enemy was stronger, but even more so the enemy was "attacking" luffy, and not the other way around.

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is arc has definitely placed itself as the worst arc in the entire manga
Why do you think? I certainly don't found skypea and florian triangle arc much less entertainings, and they seemed discontinuosu from the broader story line except for the ponyglyphs.

Quote:
No doubt they rate this weeks Bleach chapter many times better than OP chapter and if you read Bleach too you can see how twisted their taste of manga is...
Why does every one piece discussion these days devolve into a comparison between one piece and bleach.
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Old 2009-06-06, 05:44   Link #85
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Cos Bleach sucks.
Actually, saying that Bleach sucks would be an understatement..Bleach is that terrible.

Some say Naruto is bad, but compared to Bleach, Naruto is like OP..

rofl, OP isn't the best manga ever, but its definitely the best out of the top 3, and one of the best shonen series out there imo.

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Why do you think? I certainly don't found skypea and florian triangle arc much less entertainings, and they seemed discontinuosu from the broader story line except for the ponyglyphs.
I think Florian Triangle was probably the worst arc, whilst this is the second worst. Don't get me wrong, I still like this arc, but I think the pacing is messed up and its rather disorganized (although I guess this makes it more unpredictable and realistic). I also don't like the fact that we are seeing so many old characters again; one or two would be ok, but Buggy and the entire Baroque Works? Whats next, Arlong, Enel and Lucci?! =.=

To top it off, I can not stand Iva. He can be funny sometimes, but seriously its just way too ridiculous, the whole transsexual thing. Alrite, one tranny is fine, but a whole army of them?! Makes me think wtf...

Maybe thats just me.

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No they don't. By your logic, Blackbeard who has a bounty of 0 would lose to Chopper who has a bounty of 50. Hell, according to you, Bellamy who has a bounty of 55 million would be able to crush Blackbeard and Chopper, when we know that is simply not the case. Bounties do not equal power levels. This isn't Dragon Ball over here, where the higher the number the stronger you are.
Like I said.

Its not 100% accurate, and there are exceptions. But BB and CHopper are the EXCEPTIONS and not the rule.

I said generally speaking, did you even read what i wrote?

..I know the manga. Of course the bounty system is flawed as a measure of strength, and I know there are some rare cases where the WG does not know the true threat of a character or else assigns a higher bounty which does not correspond to strength. But GENERALLY speaking higher bounty = higher strength. Do you not understand what 'generally speaking' actually means?

:rolls eyes:
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Last edited by paradox13; 2009-06-06 at 06:40.
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Old 2009-06-06, 10:28   Link #86
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Typical internet routine, some random internet kid finds it amusing to play the anonymous negative guy 24/7.

Judging by our everday mindless fanboi's view, this eposide sucked because jinbei didnt do a damn,Blackbeards fate is unknown,Iva is defeated in single blow.Dont even bother replying so that they can go and sulk in their little room.
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Old 2009-06-06, 11:14   Link #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Like I said.

Its not 100% accurate, and there are exceptions. But BB and CHopper are the EXCEPTIONS and not the rule.

I said generally speaking, did you even read what i wrote?

..I know the manga. Of course the bounty system is flawed as a measure of strength, and I know there are some rare cases where the WG does not know the true threat of a character or else assigns a higher bounty which does not correspond to strength. But GENERALLY speaking higher bounty = higher strength. Do you not understand what 'generally speaking' actually means?

:rolls eyes:
Yes, I completely read what you wrote and I understand what "generally speaking" means. I don't need you to lecture me about this because I've had plenty of discussions about bounties and what constitutes them (primarily threat, not strength).

There are a few factors that determine how large a bounty can be:

1) How long has the person been a pirate/criminal?

2) How heinous were the actions that they committed, and how many of them have caught the attention of the World Govenment?

3) Location of residence? Someone who resides in the New World is most likely going to have a higher bounty than someone who resides in the Grand Line, given that the New World is a very dangerous domain to stay in, let alone survive.

4) Knowledge that is detrimental to the World Government. Robin received a bounty of 79 million at the age of 8 just for having knowledge of the poneglyphs and being a survivor of the Ohara incident. I don't think I need to elucidate on this any further.

5) Affiliations with other factions? Connections can make a criminal potentially more dangerous.

In addition to these factors, bounties are determined by the World Government and Marines based on how dangerous they perceive the criminals to be. They don't completely know the true potential or strength capabilities of their targets (who would know the criminals better than the criminals themselves?), and therefore it is a fallible argument to suggest that bounties serve as an accurate indicator of strength (due to ignorance on the part of the WG and Marines). I think I've explained myself well enough to you, and if you're still not convinced, I have something ready just in case.
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Old 2009-06-06, 13:09   Link #88
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Quote:
Judging by our everday mindless fanboi's view, this eposide sucked because jinbei didnt do a damn,Blackbeards fate is unknown,Iva is defeated in single blow.Dont even bother replying so that they can go and sulk in their little room.
Who said that?

And blackbeard: I'd type a reply for you, but I'm too tired right now, its 2 in the morning and I wanna sleep.

Will type a post next morning, although its safe to say that I don't agree with you.

From what I've seen in your posts, you seem to be arguing that bounty has nothing whatsoever to do with strength. Whilst I know that bounty is based on threat alone, my point is that the threat of a character to the WG often correlates with their strength. There are some exceptions to this (as you kindly pointed out..) but generally, I belief this to be the case.
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Old 2009-06-06, 15:52   Link #89
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Opposite of appreciation is criticism.

Not true. I still get as much enjoyment as I can out of Impel Down, even though it is the worst arc so far.

Criticism is just called not turning off your mind. If you turn off your mind, maybe you will like everything ok, everything will taste vanilla, but how do you know you didn't miss out on something better?

Honestly, if you think Impel Down is nearly as good as earlier arcs, maybe you just didn't get the most out of the earlier ones.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ashesatdusk View Post
Why do you think? I certainly don't found skypea and florian triangle arc much less entertainings, and they seemed discontinuosu from the broader story line except for the ponyglyphs.

I liked Skypiea very much. It was a classic well-written adventure on its own and also makes the world bigger and more interesting. A narrow focus on the main storyline is not a good idea.


Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
I also don't like the fact that we are seeing so many old characters again; one or two would be ok, but Buggy and the entire Baroque Works? Whats next, Arlong, Enel and Lucci?! =.=

Having so many characters return like they did also starts to feel a bit like fanservice, and makes the world feel smaller and less interesting.

Almost like Oda knew Impel Down had the weakest storyline so far, so he brought back a bunch of fan favorites to distract people.

Personally I don't think Mr 1/2/3 should have appeared at all, that just makes the world too small. And I still think Mr 3's declaration was out of character.
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Old 2009-06-06, 15:54   Link #90
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Who said that?

And blackbeard: I'd type a reply for you, but I'm too tired right now, its 2 in the morning and I wanna sleep.

Will type a post next morning, although its safe to say that I don't agree with you.

From what I've seen in your posts, you seem to be arguing that bounty has nothing whatsoever to do with strength. Whilst I know that bounty is based on threat alone, my point is that the threat of a character to the WG often correlates with their strength. There are some exceptions to this (as you kindly pointed out..) but generally, I belief this to be the case.
I agree. its the Gvernment and Marine Headquarters role to value the bounty. and they're bad guys. In the World, good guys and the bad guys fight each other. When the 'former' bad guys--Marine and Government--send the bounty value to either bad guys and good guys, of course, there's one thing: Belly, money in this case. and i know, many pirate's goal is not money. IT IS TREASURE.
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Old 2009-06-06, 16:23   Link #91
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Originally Posted by Ermes Marana View Post
Having so many characters return like they did also starts to feel a bit like fanservice, and makes the world feel smaller and less interesting.

Almost like Oda knew Impel Down had the weakest storyline so far, so he brought back a bunch of fan favorites to distract people.

Personally I don't think Mr 1/2/3 should have appeared at all, that just makes the world too small. And I still think Mr 3's declaration was out of character.
Mr. 3's declaration was not out of character. Specifically, he, and to a lesser extent Buggy, have grown quite a bit as characters during their escape. Where before he cared for no one but himself, he has now actively supported Buggy, and then actively supported the Level 2 inmates (case and point, he hid many of them from Magellan's poison even though he would have been better served to simply save himself along with Buggy). He has grown from just focusing on his own self interest, to working well with those around him. So, him standing up for Luffy in this chapter is not too far of a stretch from the way he has been acting in recent chapters.

Additionally, in regards to "fan service", besides Buggy, we have known that all of these characters were in Impel Down for close to 150 chapters, far longer than Ace has even been captured. So, realistically, it would have been strange if Luffy hadn't run into them during his invasion of the Gaol.
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Old 2009-06-06, 21:08   Link #92
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Originally Posted by Ermes Marana View Post
Not true. I still get as much enjoyment as I can out of Impel Down, even though it is the worst arc so far.

Criticism is just called not turning off your mind. If you turn off your mind, maybe you will like everything ok, everything will taste vanilla, but how do you know you didn't miss out on something better?

Honestly, if you think Impel Down is nearly as good as earlier arcs, maybe you just didn't get the most out of the earlier ones.

Having so many characters return like they did also starts to feel a bit like fanservice, and makes the world feel smaller and less interesting.

Almost like Oda knew Impel Down had the weakest storyline so far, so he brought back a bunch of fan favorites to distract people.

Personally I don't think Mr 1/2/3 should have appeared at all, that just makes the world too small. And I still think Mr 3's declaration was out of character.
When you switch on your mind even more, you get to appreciate, that's when you find out you missed on the better stuff. Because appreciation is the act of finding the worth of something. You don't find the good by criticising, you find it by appreciating.

And as you said, you're 'personally' thinking you don't like the arc because of the various reasons you stated. It seems that its your personal taste at work which makes you think that the arc is bad. But this doesn't mean the arc is bad for all of us, in fact it seems quite alot of us like this arc. The problem doesn't lie with the arc, it lies with the individual who doesn't like it, because this isn't a downright bad arc.

Even if its not the best, yes you can still enjoy it. And this arc probably won't see an end anytime soon, you won't get a good judgement of things until its complete. There's reasons why we're thinking this is an epic build up of things to come.

Characters are brought back or introduced for this build up, not just for fanservice. If everyone is gathering on one spot of the planet, I'm sure you'll meet someone you know. Impel Down is also where Baroque works is kept, if you're as loud as Luffy, someone who remembers you will probably notice you. Its not like we're meeting every single old character here, we're only meeting ones who are supposed to be here, kept in the prison and those who are involved with Whitebeard.
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Old 2009-06-06, 21:15   Link #93
Change of Pace
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Yikes, this week' comments are angrier than usual. Well, perhaps I'm not really one to judge, because I'm so deluded in my complete and utter idolization of Oda and One Piece that I can never, ever see any possible faults in One Piece. To me, One Piece is perfection on paper. Though, I do feel lucky that I am able to think like this, because if One Piece chapters weren't the highlight of my week, and if I was critical of them in the slightest, I'd be a considerably more miserable person all around. That said, anything I would have to say about this chapter would probably just amount to little more than incessant fan ranting of delight, so I'll leave it at that to avoid invoking anyone's wrath.
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Old 2009-06-06, 21:52   Link #94
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When you switch on your mind even more, you get to appreciate, that's when you find out you missed on the better stuff. Because appreciation is the act of finding the worth of something. You don't find the good by criticising, you find it by appreciating.
Wow what a biased point of view.

Spoken like a true fanboy, I must say.
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Old 2009-06-06, 21:59   Link #95
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Wow what a biased point of view.

Spoken like a true fanboy, I must say.
I guess the word fanboy must be totally non existant in this case. Because that's the view I use on everything. Can I actually be a fanboy of everything?

I stated that point in a general view and its not even about One Piece.

You appreciate to get the good out of something. You criticise to find room for improvement. When you want to enjoy something, you would like to appreciate. If you want to suggest a better idea to the author, you give him your constructive criticism.

They say criticism brings discussion on the internets, but does the criticism bring effective discussions? Is our discussion here effective? Does it reach the ears of Oda?
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Old 2009-06-06, 22:42   Link #96
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Do the people who complain about One Piece ever not complain about any other series?
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Old 2009-06-06, 22:48   Link #97
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You "guys" are looking at it all wrong. Those that complain the loudest are probably the biggest fans. Specifically, they love the series so much that they become very upset when they think that Oda is not living up to his potential...or at least that is my optimistic viewpoint concerning harsh negative criticism when harsh negative criticism is not necessarily warranted.
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Old 2009-06-06, 23:07   Link #98
C.A.
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Which means 'fanboys' are actually the ones complaining. So what are fanboys? The word is totally non existant in my dictionary, it has no meaning. When 'fanboys' argue with each other, fanboys cancel off each other on both sides of the equation, the result has nothing to do with 'fanboys'.

What's left is why can't people just look on the good side of things and enjoy it?

Instead of complaining the appearance of old characters, why not rejoice over their return? Why complain and look at the bad side if you're so keen to enjoy?

While people always point that criticism is needed for discussion, it always ends up useless. Is there a need to argue over something useless?

EDIT: And yes, I'm exactly trying to point out how useless it can be by criticising criticism and showing how criticism ends up with nothing. Can I be doing something out of nothing?
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Old 2009-06-06, 23:16   Link #99
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Stop arguing about semantics.

And for the record, one can appreciate a series and criticise it at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive.
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Old 2009-06-06, 23:22   Link #100
C.A.
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Stop arguing about semantics.

And for the record, one can appreciate a series and criticise it at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Of course, but do you see appreciation from these people who has complained every week with no sign of liking anything about it? Heck, they're even complaining about stuff that's actually making the chapters enjoyable.

Everyone else do criticise, people complained of various stuff, but we do see that they're enjoying what they're reading. But is there a need for complete posts of nothing but complains, every week?
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