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Old 2009-06-08, 23:57   Link #2961
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
You seem to have an obsession with governments kidnapping people. You suggested that the Air France plane was hijacked and the people kidnapped for use in weird scientific experiments and here you're recommending that in order to secure the release of these journalists North Korean officals are to be kidnapped and threatened with death. Maybe you should take a step back and think about what you're saying here?
You have to remember, North Korea is guilty of numerous kidnappings of South Koreans and Japanese.
Hell, they even admitted to this, and for decades these two nations have been negotiating with North Korea to get their citizens back.

It's pretty natural to jump to kidnapping considering The Great Leader's track record for kidnapping.
We're talking about the one government that DOES indeed kidnap people.
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Old 2009-06-09, 00:05   Link #2962
yezhanquan
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And blow up commercial planes of their enemies.
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Old 2009-06-09, 01:28   Link #2963
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
And blow up commercial planes of their enemies.
Considering it is pretty much enemies with the rest of the world right now, this doesn't seem to sound good.

I am actually curious though, the US has got CIA agents around the world, but why no intelligence from NK at all? Also given their capability in SIGINT and high-res imaging satellites, there doesn't seem to be alot of intelligence coming from the North.
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Old 2009-06-09, 01:53   Link #2964
Circular Logic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Considering it is pretty much enemies with the rest of the world right now, this doesn't seem to sound good.

I am actually curious though, the US has got CIA agents around the world, but why no intelligence from NK at all? Also given their capability in SIGINT and high-res imaging satellites, there doesn't seem to be alot of intelligence coming from the North.
How on earth do you know whether the US has intelligence from North Korea or not? Isn't the point of having agents and whatnot that you DON'T broadcast their existence to the country that you're spying on?
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Old 2009-06-09, 03:07   Link #2965
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Circular Logic View Post
How on earth do you know whether the US has intelligence from North Korea or not? Isn't the point of having agents and whatnot that you DON'T broadcast their existence to the country that you're spying on?
We could speculate that it is tougher to get info conduits set up inside North Korea and tougher to keep them alive.

This article serves to remind us that the jackasses lording over North Korea are fundamentally evil - not just the butt of comedy.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-b...0081105f1.html
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Old 2009-06-09, 04:07   Link #2966
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Circular Logic View Post
How on earth do you know whether the US has intelligence from North Korea or not? Isn't the point of having agents and whatnot that you DON'T broadcast their existence to the country that you're spying on?
On intelligence matters, agencies should have different data to use as propaganda. Seems that the intel is always on the same things : gulags, Kim's gastronomic riches, human rights. There is practically no intel on the fight force's capability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
We could speculate that it is tougher to get info conduits set up inside North Korea and tougher to keep them alive.

This article serves to remind us that the jackasses lording over North Korea are fundamentally evil - not just the butt of comedy.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-b...0081105f1.html
And we thought that slavery has been abolished long time ago, with the lastest being during WWII in which the Nazis worked the Jews to death in concentration camps.

Invading North Korea doesn't seem easy at all. We have got human shields, blackbox technologies and pretty much a mindless army to fight against. Any fighting force, no matter how big or powerful, will result in a stalemate when fighting against the DPRK forces. Heck they aren't as disorganised as the Taliban to put up a "divide and conquer" tactic!
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2009-06-09, 07:56   Link #2967
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Putin lays the smackdown: "Now give me my pen back"
http://www.stabroeknews.com/2009/new...isis-hit-town/
http://www.afpbb.com/article/economy/2609511/4230118


Remember when the three US automakers were brought in front of the government officials, asking for taxpayers' money, and was treated with harsh words?
Imagine the President doing what those government officials did, himself.
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Old 2009-06-09, 10:00   Link #2968
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Putin lays the smackdown: "Now give me my pen back"
http://www.stabroeknews.com/2009/new...isis-hit-town/
http://www.afpbb.com/article/economy/2609511/4230118


Remember when the three US automakers were brought in front of the government officials, asking for taxpayers' money, and was treated with harsh words?
Imagine the President doing what those government officials did, himself.
Now that is what I call a real leader.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2009-06-09, 11:18   Link #2969
Claies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Considering it is pretty much enemies with the rest of the world right now, this doesn't seem to sound good.

I am actually curious though, the US has got CIA agents around the world, but why no intelligence from NK at all? Also given their capability in SIGINT and high-res imaging satellites, there doesn't seem to be alot of intelligence coming from the North.
Because that place really locks down all communications and trusts no one. Soviet Russia back then at least had conduits out of pragmatism. This place has none, because they really don't care.
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Old 2009-06-09, 14:37   Link #2970
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News about the news

One reason the US corporate media is possibly considered less credible than the US Congress (hard to do, I know ) To me this isn't silly/odd - it helps clarify for our overseas neighbors just why "average American" has such a poor understanding of the world unless they jump out of the "main news stream".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_213036.html


Quote:
Now that is what I call a real leader.
Putin may be a bastard, but yeah it is nice to see that sort of smackdown of a weasel .... then the business schmuck just makes it worse for himself by reading the document that they've ALL undoubtedly were supposed to read thoroughly. So it means he came to the meeting unprepared. Ouch. And "3 strikes you're out" he tried to walk off with Putin's pen. oye...
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Old 2009-06-09, 15:44   Link #2971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Putin may be a bastard, but yeah it is nice to see that sort of smackdown of a weasel .... then the business schmuck just makes it worse for himself by reading the document that they've ALL undoubtedly were supposed to read thoroughly. So it means he came to the meeting unprepared. Ouch. And "3 strikes you're out" he tried to walk off with Putin's pen. oye...
Putin after all is The Greatest Bastard Of Them All I wish that more leaders would show some more strength and realise that the companies have no right to act in such an embarassing way.

And yes, never take Putin's pen.
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Old 2009-06-09, 15:55   Link #2972
solomon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Putin lays the smackdown: "Now give me my pen back"
http://www.stabroeknews.com/2009/new...isis-hit-town/
http://www.afpbb.com/article/economy/2609511/4230118


Remember when the three US automakers were brought in front of the government officials, asking for taxpayers' money, and was treated with harsh words?
Imagine the President doing what those government officials did, himself.
Wow, I thought Teddy Roosevelt was GAR (he was). But that is awesome.
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Old 2009-06-09, 16:00   Link #2973
solomon
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[QUOTE=Vexx;2444040]One reason the US corporate media is possibly considered less credible than the US Congress (hard to do, I know ) To me this isn't silly/odd - it helps clarify for our overseas neighbors just why "average American" has such a poor understanding of the world unless they jump out of the "main news stream". QUOTE]

Does that include papers? They are my main source of US based news, and although imperfect (I wonder what the glory days of newspaper writing were like) they still are ten times more informative than the television. Bill Moyers had some guests talking about how the media is too preoccupied with being seen as too liberal or whatnot, thus they air any old thing that Rush or Newt says (even if it has no merit, like the justice nominee Sotomayor's "racist" charge) lest they be seen as "biased".

I'm an abberation, but unless you are such an abberation in being a realitvely young news hound, I wonder if most people my age (20s) really care about TV news anymore outside of emergencies.
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Old 2009-06-09, 16:16   Link #2974
Vexx
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Newspapers are fairly good IF you read more than one. Most cities have only one major paper (usually owned by a national entity) and they've cut almost all the local out of them. Also, "no one is reading the newspapers anymore" ... at least the big ones, and they're going out of business. In no small part, imo, because of their sterilization (in much the same way that most "local tv news" *isn't* anymore).

The best paper in my town hands down is a local FREE newspaper (survives on ads) that does outstanding investigative reporting on city and state affairs. They are unabashedly progressive but in a fiscally pragmatic way. There's also a new centrist newspaper (also ad supported) that is starting to do quite well.
The competing major paper is so out of touch that it only survives out of habit. Most of its news is simply newsfeed copy (no local integration of various information sources) and the editorial slant is kind of a weird pro-corporate "good old boy network" big guvmint hash. The last few elections have had them clearly out of touch with their shrinking reader base. I get better world coverage from reading the local (also free) asian newspaper.

But you're right -- virtually any newspaper leaves most commercial television news in the dust.
The big networks give the national/world news maybe 15 minutes a night (after commercials and "WE BE NEWS" logo graphics) and part of that is often a "cute puppy" story. Their local affiliates are even worse with pseudo-local news and the new "teaser" airtime suckage. My wife likes to time the 'no-information-alarmist-question teaser versus the actual time spent giving the vital information (its all about keeping your eyeballs through the next commercial break). As a medical professional, the "OMGZ, WHAT U NEEDZ KNOW BOUT VACCINES!!!!" type of teaser just infuriate her, because she HAS to watch it so she can spend the next few days correcting the misinformed anxieties of patients.

PBS is really the only functional broadcast news station with the News Hour, the Business Report, BBC World News, European Journal and the investigative news like Frontline, Bill Moyer's, NOW, Washington Weekly, etc. CNN has PLENTY of time to do deep news coverage but squanders the opportunity -- every 15-30 minutes you have this feeling of deja vu with CNN because, guess what?, you DID just see the same report before. All the FOX channels are simply 100% loud braying tabloid trash with no distinguishing between news, commentary, gossip, and propaganda. MSNBC is only slightly less obnoxious than FOX because they use essentially the same techniques.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2009-06-09 at 16:30.
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Old 2009-06-09, 17:03   Link #2975
Mystique
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Ahh, gotta love students, they bring hope to me especially when they're actually able to shut down a public political speech with eggs xD
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8091605.stm

Quote:
BNP leader Nick Griffin has been pelted with eggs and forced to abandon a press conference outside Parliament.

Dozens of protesters disrupted the event, which follows the British National Party winning its first two seats in the European Parliament.

Chanting anti-Nazi slogans and holding placards they surrounded Mr Griffin as he was bundled into a car.
I believe Sweden's "Pirate Party" also gained a small victory of their own. It seems 'radical' parties have made some real progress for this Euro election and gained seats for the first time in their history, I wonder if it'll overly impact us all.

For now, it is a sad day on the UK front for the BNP gaining power over the last 18months.
(they also gained their first seat in the London elections last year) *sighs*
- Just have to keep cheering on the students in the meantime. >.>
(Yes, yes, freedom of speech, yada yada, this party should go burn to the ground, their manifestos make me sick and they're very clever with the way they sang up voters using very subtle fear to aid their 'quest for the indigenous British majority')

No, they only support the tiny minority who hate 9% of the UK population for most things and blames all social problems on us all. -.-
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Old 2009-06-09, 17:07   Link #2976
Vexx
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Aye, the BNP should have the right to say what they say and everyone else should have the right to call it the mean-spirited crap it is and throw tomatoes, eggs, cream pies, and other non-lethal bits of embarrassment.
Its better to have these clowns in the public eye where people can keep an eye on them
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Old 2009-06-09, 17:13   Link #2977
Circular Logic
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Surely not. The BNP represents a significant section of the population who actually believe their rubbish. These people have a right to be represented, and throwing eggs at a legitimate political party is an affront to democracy. If you don't like something somebody says, then defeat them in public debate - physically interfering with their right to speak merely allows them to claim victimisation and strengthens their arguments.

Last edited by Circular Logic; 2009-06-09 at 17:41.
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Old 2009-06-09, 17:15   Link #2978
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Aye, the BNP should have the right to say what they say and everyone else should have the right to call it the mean-spirited crap it is and throw tomatoes, eggs, cream pies, and other non-lethal bits of embarrassment.
Its better to have these clowns in the public eye where people can keep an eye on them
Well they're going for their next public speech in Manchester...

If they get away with eggs, they are lucky Vexx, I'm not kidding. The 3rd biggest UK city with a heavy Asian count and they want immigration completely eradicated?
Well, it'll be interesting to see how they try to play it.
As it is, the BNP are blaming Labour, Tories and Lib Dems for backing these protests up (xD)
The 3 biggest political parties in the UK hate this too, but I guess to avoid making martyrs out of them and giving them even more hate material, we should chill a little.
>.>
I know for sure if the students were white (I've a suspicion they were), how convenient it'll be for them to forget to mention 'race' or 'their very own "indigenous British majority" on their website as the people who are opposing them.
*sighs*

Ah well, I guess we can only keep tabs as you said for now, can't reverse the European seats as it is, sadly...

EDIT: Yes yes, I know Circular, I already somewhat half heartedly conceeded on the "freedom of speech" note; they're entitled to the benefits of democracy as everyone else, even if they did snatch their gain from the weakened and disillusioned hearts of previous Labour voters, of which that party crashed and burned real bad in this election, thus giving many of the other parties a better chance at grabbing voters.
I still find it sastifying to see them run off for their first speech regardless xD
I guess we'll have to see how much the students around the UK behave themselves in the future~
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Last edited by Mystique; 2009-06-09 at 17:27.
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Old 2009-06-09, 17:20   Link #2979
Vexx
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As I understood it, the only reason any of these wackjobs got their seats (in the UK and a couple of other countries) was that people were pretty fed up with Labour Party incompetence, shuffling, nonsense, etc. In other words, it was a shot across the bow for Labour to wake up.

Its always a bit alarming when people vote nasty jackasses in because they're irritated at the only other choice.
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Old 2009-06-09, 17:39   Link #2980
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
As I understood it, the only reason any of these wackjobs got their seats (in the UK and a couple of other countries) was that people were pretty fed up with Labour Party incompetence, shuffling, nonsense, etc. In other words, it was a shot across the bow for Labour to wake up.

Its always a bit alarming when people vote nasty jackasses in because they're irritated at the only other choice.
You are correct.
Quote:
On Monday Tory leader David Cameron and Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg said they were "sickened" by the BNP's win and Labour deputy Harriet Harman said it was "a terrible thing".

The number of people voting BNP across the UK as a whole went up slightly, from 808,201 to 943,598 in the European elections, but went down slightly in the two regions where it gained MEPs, with the party benefitting from a collapse in the Labour vote.
Put it this way; when you've got the 3 biggest UK parties all 'competitors against each other' in their own right, teaming up and saying 'no' as one...
It'll give a non Brit a fair idea of just how bad their gain for the European seats are.
That's like the Republicans and Democrats unanimously agreeing on the same thing and expressing the same opinion on an opposite party.
(We'd have to wait until Hell froze over for that right, since it's very much a red vs blue thing for most part...)

Brown becoming PM after Blair was said to have been done without the support of the public or the PM's, he kinda 'forced' his way into there.
Sadly on this end, it feels like a curse.
The amount of things that "suddenly" went wrong nationally were immense, but of course, because responsibility and blame falls on him as leader, it just looks bad and bad and bad.
And of course, with the recent tax fraud exposure thing, it just completely screws the party over, which is a shame to be honest. The Tories are gaining their voters back, but we already had 18 years of them which ended in 1997 and was sick to death of it.
I personally don't feel like going back to the Tories but they are holding surpreme at the moment.
If these numbers are correct from the BBC:
Quote:
They won 6.2% of votes, compared with 8.6% for the Green Party, 13.7% for the Lib Dems, 15.7% for Labour, 16.5% for the UK Independence Party and 27.7% for the Conservatives.
Then I'll prob have a peek at the Independant Party or Lib Dems and see what they have to say for themselves.
We'll see how it goes anyways...
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