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Old 2009-06-10, 05:02   Link #981
klare
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maybe Rafaela knew herself will awake and no longer on the human side, so she download her memory into Clare, so that the info can be used against the organisation

i guess she also sensed some Teresa in her
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Old 2009-06-10, 07:08   Link #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta View Post
I don't think that is right. The way I see it is: in general, in the awakening process, a new consciousness that is inhuman is born and it either suppresses and buries the human consciousness or the human consciousness fades away. Here is the important part: the new consciousness inherits all the Claymores memories, to the extent that the new consciousness believes it is the old consciousness but awakened, when in reality it awakened independently and inherited the old consciousness memories. That's why The Priscilla that fought Teresa is actually a different person, consciousness, than the awakened being that took Irene's arm.



Don'tcha wish Cyclone-sama was here.
that is what i was trying to say in my previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
On Panel 16 in raw (page 15 in One Manga), Rafaela said:

"Kokokara saki ni, Omai ga sono karada de rikai suro beki kodo da..."

One Manga translate this to:

"From here on, you must come to understand through that body you bear."

It is a bit confusing in the context of the previous panel with the mistake.

It would be better translated to be:

(Unsaid: "Enough of this") "Now you must use that body of yours to learn..."

Rafaela is basically telling Clare to fight.

must....get...head...out of....gutter...
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Old 2009-06-10, 09:41   Link #983
camilla
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Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
My problem is even to translate this sentence in a semantically correct german sentence.
Not only yours. Mine as well. I have to put it in a correct French or Italian form and I always find myself adding things to the original sentence.


Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post


What did rafaella know about clare?
She knew that she is making a mistake but she did not know about the quicksword?
Another reason not to trust her.

Thanks for the clarification, SagaraSouske.

Yet, there's still the "body" part that escapes me. What body, to begin with? Why does Clare have to experience all that with her physical body/physically to understand? Isn't it the same or maybe isn't it enough to do it mentally? Or does she have to do it both physically and mentally?
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Old 2009-06-10, 11:10   Link #984
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Originally Posted by camilla View Post
Yet, there's still the "body" part that escapes me. What body, to begin with? Why does Clare have to experience all that with her physical body/physically to understand? Isn't it the same or maybe isn't it enough to do it mentally? Or does she have to do it both physically and mentally?
Camilla....I think you're really thinking too deeply about this

Rafaela was just being overdramatic. She wanted to know what she felt, everything that happened in her life as if she was her. Mentally is fine all right, but if she was in the face of great danger and pain, physical is quite a good way to get the message across, especially if it involved yoki. Both is preferable.

I think you're really wracking your brain over nothing.
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Old 2009-06-10, 11:32   Link #985
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Originally Posted by camilla View Post
Yet, there's still the "body" part that escapes me. What body, to begin with? Why does Clare have to experience all that with her physical body/physically to understand? Isn't it the same or maybe isn't it enough to do it mentally? Or does she have to do it both physically and mentally?
Are you talking about SEX? Admit It!
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Old 2009-06-10, 11:37   Link #986
irvinethearcher
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I think there are things you can not learn from books or teachings alone especially when feelings like love or hate are involved.
Assuming clare can trust rafaella that's perhaps why rafaella not only gave her knowledge alone to clare.

By the way
i think that clare's mistake is a mistake rafaella made too.
Perhaps Rafaella felt guilty for the awakening of her sister, clare feels probably still guilty(despite irene) for the death of teresa.
This could be another possibility.
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Old 2009-06-10, 11:43   Link #987
revan5
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Originally Posted by camilla View Post
Not only yours. Mine as well. I have to put it in a correct French or Italian form and I always find myself adding things to the original sentence.

Another reason not to trust her.

Thanks for the clarification, SagaraSouske.

Yet, there's still the "body" part that escapes me. What body, to begin with? Why does Clare have to experience all that with her physical body/physically to understand? Isn't it the same or maybe isn't it enough to do it mentally? Or does she have to do it both physically and mentally?
Well I checked mangahelpers, and near as I can tell, their most recent Italian/French/German translations are around chapters 85-86.

But if you read Italian, Spanish is almost up to date (Chapter 91) and has multiple translators to choose from. It's too bad we can't check any of our translations against theirs, because I get a feeling any translator in German would really have some trouble with that one line.

The biggest problem for them isn't translating it, but fitting the German in the dialogue boxes! Seriously, it makes little enough sense in English. If we were to make it logical in Deutsch I get the feeling the dialogue text would be tiny.
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Old 2009-06-10, 12:30   Link #988
camilla
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You know, you're probably right and I'm reading too much into it and even expecting something deep from a manga. But I can't get out of my head that mental body option that makes me think of something involving soul-link, suggesting Clare to experiment in that direction, too. I mean, Yagi must have chosen that term for a reason.

Yep, when a new chapter is out, I do check all the translations available that I can read, giving precedence to the English ones. The problem is I'm afraid some English to other languages translators take the English one they prefer instead of the Japanese raw to make their translations . Anyway, I can confirm the latest Italian one was good.

*looks around* I have a strong hunch all the talk about translations is getting someone in trouble. Better change the subject.


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Are you talking about SEX? Admit It!
Seriously, it didn't even cross my mind.
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Old 2009-06-10, 12:44   Link #989
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Quote:
You know, you're probably right and I'm reading too much into it and even expecting something deep from a manga.
The fact that it's a manga has nothing to do with it. If it wasn't deep because it's a manga, we wouldn't be having these discussions, now would we?

Quote:
*looks around* I have a strong hunch all the talk about translations is getting someone in trouble. Better change the subject.
Relax, I think the "powers that be" flew back upstairs already, which probably has better air-conditioning then my room(considering mine doesn't exist )
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Old 2009-06-10, 15:13   Link #990
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I think things are getting a little derailed at the moment.
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Old 2009-06-10, 16:52   Link #991
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Choo choo.
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Old 2009-06-10, 16:59   Link #992
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I think things are getting a little derailed at the moment.
Choo choo.
Oh come on, it always get that way after a little while. It gets to a point where people get exhausted with trying to answer the same questions over and over again. People need "coffee breaks", It doesn't take long before getting back into the debating game.

Crazy unexpected surprises like Dunames, or me and Amoredoll talking about Kim Possible are a relief

I like to help by constantly posting Jim Carrey stuff, like Ace Ventura for laughs
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Old 2009-06-10, 17:52   Link #993
camilla
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If we were to believe Rafaela and her good intentions to reward Clare by giving her the memories and feelings she cherished the most as a sign of high esteem towards Clare because she defeated her and then telling her to look into them to find the big mistake she was/is making, it would suggest me to doubt this mistake to be about Priscilla. Why am I saying this? Because at this point, the logical course of action would be to associate the mistake with Clare's revenge against Priscilla. Or better, the Priscilla Clare remembers, as some of you stated. Well, what if it's something else completely? Yagi has a nice way to surprise me since I always guess wrong. What could it be? ...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
The fact that it's a manga has nothing to do with it. If it wasn't deep because it's a manga, we wouldn't be having these discussions, now would we?
It's a common knowledge to think manga aren't deep and are only for children and teenagers. My friends keep on repeating me that I have the attitude to find deep meanings into them when there aren't any to the point of convincing me they're right. They should come in here and see with their eyes.
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Old 2009-06-10, 20:03   Link #994
Shiek927
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If we were to believe Rafaela and her good intentions to reward Clare by giving her the memories and feelings she cherished the most as a sign of high esteem towards Clare because she defeated her and then telling her to look into them to find the big mistake she was/is making, it would suggest me to doubt this mistake to be about Priscilla. Why am I saying this? Because at this point, the logical course of action would be to associate the mistake with Clare's revenge against Priscilla. Or better, the Priscilla Clare remembers, as some of you stated. Well, what if it's something else completely? Yagi has a nice way to surprise me since I always guess wrong. What could it be? ...
*gasps with exhaustion

Just look at all the previous posts hun, that's all I can say

(But yes, I also agree with you. Everything you said sounds logical)
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Old 2009-06-10, 20:44   Link #995
SagaraSouske
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camilla View Post
Not only yours. Mine as well. I have to put it in a correct French or Italian form and I always find myself adding things to the original sentence.



Another reason not to trust her.

Thanks for the clarification, SagaraSouske.

Yet, there's still the "body" part that escapes me. What body, to begin with? Why does Clare have to experience all that with her physical body/physically to understand? Isn't it the same or maybe isn't it enough to do it mentally? Or does she have to do it both physically and mentally?
What Rafaela said there has two layers of meaning. First, she is simply asking Clare to stop wasting time and use whatever technique she has left to attack. The 'using the body to learn' essentially means get physical. I think the deeper layer, which is why these specific words are used instead of say: "Enough, just fight me.", is to tell Clare to pay more attention to how her body works in the future - looking inwards to oneself to find answers for youki control, manipulation, soul link, etc.

Claymores struggle with the prospect of awakening all of their life. It would make sense the solution to their ultimate fate would be a better understanding of how youki and there yoma half effects themselves and find ways exert their human will to better control youki and the yoma half within their body rather then be controlled by it and eventually awaken.
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Old 2009-06-10, 20:57   Link #996
Vinak
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Clare is already able to control her yoki at a level never seen before.

she released her yoki and concentrated it entirely into her right arm.
Rapheala says this herself. she mistakes her yoki disappearing only to realize it is now located only in her right arm.

Theoretically, Clare should now be able to do a full body awakening while preventing her mind from awakening along with it
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Old 2009-06-10, 21:05   Link #997
Shiek927
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Theoretically, Clare should now be able to do a full body awakening while preventing her mind from awakening along with it
.....Theoretically.

That does bring up a possible prospect Vinak. I was always under the impression that their was a very good chance Claire would awaken if she fought Priscilla(not like she has nothing to lose), but this brings up a new good possibility: That she may use all her power and fully awaken, but perhaps keep her mind the same as it was as a Claymore.

If she does do that, or perhaps, is able to turn back to normal(depends what you mean by "full-body". Full Awakening with Claymore mind, or just 99% Controlled Awakening?). If this is true, she is truly the kind of warrior the Organization is looking for.
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Old 2009-06-10, 21:08   Link #998
Vinak
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I mean an awakening in the same fashion as Jean. A full body awakening while maintaining the human mind.
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Old 2009-06-10, 21:12   Link #999
Shiek927
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Originally Posted by Vinak View Post
I mean an awakening in the same fashion as Jean. A full body awakening while maintaining the human mind.
Well, either way, it's a good theory. She'll be able to use, what is basically her good measure of her power if she was an AB(which is virtually invincible) without still being able to go over the limit.

Yes, If their is indeed a Claire vs Priscilla battle, I have no doubt their's an extremely good chance that will happen(assuming she doesn't fully awaken, and assuming their's a battle to begin with)

It would let us see Claire's fully awakened form and she still is able to turn back to normal.
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Old 2009-06-10, 21:19   Link #1000
SagaraSouske
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It's not just controlling youki, but also control the yoma half in them. Youki is a tool. It's like power gained from hybridizing with yoma flesh. Controlling the yoma is far more crucial in not being consumed by the yoma half and lose the human mind when awakening. Youki however, is profoundly linked to the yoma half. To understand how to control the yoma within, one will need to learn through controlling youki - as demonstrated by soul link.

As a bad example, I will borrow Bleach for a moment. Claymores are like shinigami with hollow powers. Awakening is like complete hollowfication of said shinigami. The inner hollow completely takes over the being. Youki is akin to Reiatsu of hollow nature. A successfully controlled awakening with the claymore retaining control is like becoming a Vizard. You gained the hollow power but do not get consumed by your inner hollow. Of course the comparison is not entirely accurate as the relationship between shinigami and hollow vs human and yoma are different, the link between reiatsu and shinigami or hollow powers are also of a different nature compare to youki and yoma.
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