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View Poll Results: K-On! - Episode 10 Rating
Perfect 10 25 24.75%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 25 24.75%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 24 23.76%
7 out of 10 : Good 14 13.86%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 4.95%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 3.96%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.98%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.99%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.99%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-06-10, 14:32   Link #121
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
I believe I mentioned something to the effect of all the above about five weeks ago. I wouldn't be so conceited as to claim that anyone is following my lead, but there definitely is a recent trend in this forums of fans collectively saying "gyafun" here.
Well, yeah. I want to say that I think it's somewhat cyclical. I know for me personally it isn't by any means the first time I've pointed out these issues over the years. But, like everything else, it's a counter-trend. I mean it's not as if it isn't obvious; to be part of the "AnimeSuki Cool Kids Club" you must:
  1. Watch raws, even if you don't understand Japanese
  2. Comment on said raws, even if you're only guessing at what was said
  3. Leaf through the source material before the episode airs, or act as if you've done so
  4. Complain that every deviation from the source material is inherently bad, regardless of any possible benefits of said modified approach
  5. Treat everything you dislike in a show as an inherent flaw that deserves to be criticized, rather than a simple personal preference.
If you do this around here, you're somehow seen as being smart, sophisticated, and having discriminating tastes. But fundamentally, I haven't seen these people demonstrate that much evidence of greater insight into plot, characterization, or storytelling, which you might expect given the much broader scope of exposure they have to the franchises they discuss. In the end, it seems to me that most of this is just done to "fit in" on the forum, and not really out of a great appreciation for the anime, the story, or anything else. It's just the routine -- the role one plays.

I just feel like whenever the forum experience becomes the product and not simply the byproduct, something of the simple joy of entertainment is lost. Recently, I feel as though this forum has almost passed that point, and as you point out, it seems that others are realizing the same thing. If you don't enjoy anime, what's the point?
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Old 2009-06-10, 14:51   Link #122
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Can I just say I don't find those behavioral patterns all that smart, sophisticated, and something that denotes discriminating tastes? Sometimes, they're just boring - other times, they are funny, tho.
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Old 2009-06-10, 14:56   Link #123
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, yeah. I want to say that I think it's somewhat cyclical. I know for me personally it isn't by any means the first time I've pointed out these issues over the years. But, like everything else, it's a counter-trend. I mean it's not as if it isn't obvious; to be part of the "AnimeSuki Cool Kids Club" you must:
  1. Watch raws, even if you don't understand Japanese
  2. Comment on said raws, even if you're only guessing at what was said
  3. Leaf through the source material before the episode airs, or act as if you've done so
  4. Complain that every deviation from the source material is inherently bad, regardless of any possible benefits of said modified approach
  5. Treat everything you dislike in a show as an inherent flaw that deserves to be criticized, rather than a simple personal preference.
If you do this around here, you're somehow seen as being smart, sophisticated, and having discriminating tastes. But fundamentally, I haven't seen these people demonstrate that much evidence of greater insight into plot, characterization, or storytelling, which you might expect given the much broader scope of exposure they have to the franchises they discuss. In the end, it seems to me that most of this is just done to "fit in" on the forum, and not really out of a great appreciation for the anime, the story, or anything else. It's just the routine -- the role one plays.

I just feel like whenever the forum experience becomes the product and not simply the byproduct, something of the simple joy of entertainment is lost. Recently, I feel as though this forum has almost passed that point, and as you point out, it seems that others are realizing the same thing. If you don't enjoy anime, what's the point?
Sounds about right for the rules of the "cool club". The one I really don't get is number 4 though. To approach a show from that angle is to assume that the source material is inherently perfect, which obviously can't be the case, but you know. Luckily I've spent the last week marathoning and catching up on shows and minimizing my forum experience and it's been a blast. Forums.....they really can just get in the way of simple enjoyment at times and become mentally unhealthy.

Though in K-On's case I truly believe that even if you accept the fact that it's catering to a certain demographic and that it's not meant to be an ambitious masterpiece *lolkyoani* effort like it was initially made out to be following the first episode that it's still coming up short.

And yeah maybe we are seeing the birth of a countertrend towards all of the Kyoani adaptation hype. Then again somehow I highly doubt it. I think it's more as you commented early, that the hypes died down over the past couple years, the other voices are speaking up more and they've found a way to meet somewhere a little closer to the middle. Maybe being the operative phrase in all of the preceeding paragraph.

Anyway if people think I am critical of over the top moe series now then they should have seen my intial reaction upon being introduced to the concept of moe. Luckily I've learned to tolerate and even appreciate the idea behind it all to a certain extent. Though when it starts to seem like the moe is all a series has going for it......
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Old 2009-06-10, 15:30   Link #124
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
But isn't that a bit odd if you think about it? You discard the genre, but then complain about it not meeting its potential. Its potential to be a better what? Please don't say "a better anime", because that's too subjective. A more effective moe slice-of-life comedy, you mean? That begs the question, what do people who enjoy moe slice-of-life comedies want from a show? If it's a genre you don't like to begin with, how would you know what would make it better, except by making it more like a genre you do like? And if it becomes more like the way you wish it to be, won't it be less like the way it is already? Will it cause people who are currently enjoying the show to enjoy it less? I just can't see how you can talk about execution without tying in to expectations, or talk about expectations without taking into consideration the genre of the show. It's all intrinsically linked. If the show is hitting the right buttons with people, even if it isn't with you, doesn't that mean it's doing just fine the way it is?
I didn't discard the genre? I just said that this show does a poor job in executing it. Yes that's an opinion. When talking about the likes and dislikes of a show, it is all opinion no? When I lay out my points of what I disliked, people can agree or disagree. But if certain others come here wanting to see what people liked and disliked about it, perhaps I can help them not pick up something they didn't want by showing that I dislike certain things that he may dislike as well.

Like I said in my previous post, I have absolutely no problem with the genre in question. If I am talking about execution, I suppose you are right that it is not possible to have no expectations. Maybe subconciously I expected this show to be like 10% moe, 60% slice of life, and 30% comedy, but I ended up getting 60% moe, 5% slice of life, and 35% comedy (And more often than not, the comedy is repetitive, and not very funny). Now I am not writing off this series for the general population, I am only writing it off for people who share similar opinions to me. If one of my friends who likes similar anime comes up to me and asks about this show, I will defintely not recommend it.

The general population can go on and like whatever they want. Doesn't mean I am going to consider something like American Idol as "wonderful" or "entertaining." There are many forms of art out there that the general population wouldn't give so much as a second glance at, but they are still considered great by the elitist cultures out there. How else would the words of great philosphers like Haggel last today if they relied on the masses to keep their ideas alive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
So if you combine these two points -- critics are inherently biased by personal preferences, and people differentiate themselves by when they go against the grain -- you get the Internet media-critic culture. This is why it's so frequently out-of-step with popular opinion. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who proclaims themselves a critic is never to be simply trusted outright; you have to get to know them and see where they're coming from first before you can really understand what their opinions mean. This thread is no different, I think.
You make a very good point. But for someone such as myself, I rated the first couple of K-ON! episodes pretty good, then my ratings took a rapid plunge, but have stayed consistently low since then. Would you say that the first couple of episodes were uncharacteristic of me, or the next 8?

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, yeah. I want to say that I think it's somewhat cyclical. I know for me personally it isn't by any means the first time I've pointed out these issues over the years. But, like everything else, it's a counter-trend. I mean it's not as if it isn't obvious; to be part of the "AnimeSuki Cool Kids Club" you must:
  1. Watch raws, even if you don't understand Japanese
  2. Comment on said raws, even if you're only guessing at what was said
  3. Leaf through the source material before the episode airs, or act as if you've done so
  4. Complain that every deviation from the source material is inherently bad, regardless of any possible benefits of said modified approach
  5. Treat everything you dislike in a show as an inherent flaw that deserves to be criticized, rather than a simple personal preference.
If you do this around here, you're somehow seen as being smart, sophisticated, and having discriminating tastes. But fundamentally, I haven't seen these people demonstrate that much evidence of greater insight into plot, characterization, or storytelling, which you might expect given the much broader scope of exposure they have to the franchises they discuss. In the end, it seems to me that most of this is just done to "fit in" on the forum, and not really out of a great appreciation for the anime, the story, or anything else. It's just the routine -- the role one plays.
I don't see this as being completely true because a lot of points you make are only accepted "norms" by about 50-60% (At most, but there is no real way to quantify this, just my own mental picture) of the general anime population while the rest object to many of these points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I just feel like whenever the forum experience becomes the product and not simply the byproduct, something of the simple joy of entertainment is lost. Recently, I feel as though this forum has almost passed that point, and as you point out, it seems that others are realizing the same thing. If you don't enjoy anime, what's the point?
I don't see how the forum can be the product of entertainment. A forum needs a topic of discussion to exist... One can exist with out the other, but one exists only if the other exists no? Unless you are trying to say, maybe if I understand, that people seek entertainment through the forum of anime rather than the anime itself.

If that is the case though, I do not know how you would determine whether or not a forum could reach such a point and how you would judge if someone is doing such in the first place.

If it is true though, which I highly doubt it would be at all, then it is a sad fact.
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Old 2009-06-10, 16:50   Link #125
Vexx
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The series has all the checkpoints that should make it very enjoyable for me. Yet with each episode, my mood about K-on! marches toward marking it as "forgettable fluff". Yeah, me... the L*S, Hidamari, Hyakko, Manabi Straight, et al happy imbiber.

That's the reason I really haven't said much in the forum about it or even bothered to score the episodes.

I don't *dislike* the series... but there's just something not happening that leaves me feeling this series was a stumble for KyoAni.

The characters are cute, the metaphors for sex, drugs, and rock are amusing ("here, just one piece of cake won't hurt"), nothing's better than a cute electric bass player, but.... ?meh?

No idea what to think about my mood on this one.
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Old 2009-06-10, 17:09   Link #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
And yeah maybe we are seeing the birth of a countertrend towards all of the Kyoani adaptation hype. Then again somehow I highly doubt it. I think it's more as you commented early, that the hypes died down over the past couple years, the other voices are speaking up more and they've found a way to meet somewhere a little closer to the middle. Maybe being the operative phrase in all of the preceeding paragraph.
On the contrary, I think there's a countertrend against trying to argue against people who've never liked Kyoto Animation or moe~ shows because the arguments have gotten old after all these years. The actual popularity of K-On, even here, is quite high. Most people just don't care to defend their tastes on the subject anymore, which ties into Ascaloth's point. It gives the impression that the Kyoani hype has died down (or that the critics have more of a "voice"), but the general appeal is still quite large both here and in Japan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
But for someone such as myself, I rated the first couple of K-ON! episodes pretty good, then my ratings took a rapid plunge, but have stayed consistently low since then. Would you say that the first couple of episodes were uncharacteristic of me, or the next 8?
I guess I don't really see the first few episodes as being fundamentally different from the rest of the series, but I suppose it would suggest to me that maybe it took a little while for the show's to get its "groove", or for the pattern to "sink in"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I don't see this as being completely true because a lot of points you make are only accepted "norms" by about 50-60% (At most, but there is no real way to quantify this, just my own mental picture) of the general anime population while the rest object to many of these points.
Heh -- this is exactly my point; I think it's more like 10% or less. But the 10% have such a disproportionately loud voice that it makes you *think* that it's the new "norm". Most of the people on this board don't do any of those five things (except maybe #3 in some cases).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
If that is the case though, I do not know how you would determine whether or not a forum could reach such a point and how you would judge if someone is doing such in the first place.
I guess the simple answer is: time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I don't *dislike* the series... but there's just something not happening that leaves me feeling this series was a stumble for KyoAni.
Despite the fact that this way of phrasing things will forever annoy the heck out of me, on a personal level I do understand what you're getting at. Some of the genre competition you listed raises a pretty high bar in my mind as well. But I don't think it's necessarily a "stumble" for the animation studio; the show is already on track to being another huge mass-market success for them. But of course, not every show will hit a "home run" with every single person. Nothing wrong with that!
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Old 2009-06-10, 17:53   Link #127
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Wow the Hate because they did another beach episode. I really think many people missed the point. Go back and watch episode 3. This was the first time the band got together and played as a band. it was also the first time they really got to know each other. Now look at 10, here you can see they have become friends.
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Old 2009-06-10, 18:34   Link #128
Vexx
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Quote:
Despite the fact that this way of phrasing things will forever annoy the heck out of me, on a personal level I do understand what you're getting at.
yeah, I'll admit being too shorthanded with that.... what I meant was that, for me, it seemed to be a stumble. Obviously, K-On! is doing quite well in Japan (the most important market). I wonder though if about my "forgettable".... I've watched a number of series now that ardent fans claimed they'd cherish always that now sit quietly in the archives while those fans claim "waifu" on the latest cherry blossom :P

As for this episode (back to topic), I stopped downloading the raws early on so just waiting for my preferred fansubbers to pop it.
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Old 2009-06-10, 18:37   Link #129
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On K-On, I'll definitely buy the manga, since the Chinese translation is coming (Bless Jian Duan. Nice work on Hidamari as well). As for the Blu-Rays, you're out of luck, Kyo Ani. Now, if the OST has Don't Say Lazy and Fuwa Fuwa Time together...

I think the main reason is that it's Kyo Ani. If it was a lesser known company, expectations might not be as high, I believe.
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Old 2009-06-10, 18:54   Link #130
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
On the contrary, I think there's a countertrend against trying to argue against people who've never liked Kyoto Animation or moe~ shows because the arguments have gotten old after all these years. The actual popularity of K-On, even here, is quite high. Most people just don't care to defend their tastes on the subject anymore, which ties into Ascaloth's point. It gives the impression that the Kyoani hype has died down (or that the critics have more of a "voice"), but the general appeal is still quite large both here and in Japan.
Or perhaps people just prefer to enjoy their shows more quitely now, which is perfectly cool in my book if it's the case. After all if someone likes something then generally that feeling never goes away, but the manner in which one enjoys something and expresses it, that can change with time and experience.

Anyway, K-On being a "smash success" is kind of beside the point and a bit of a given. Kyoto Animation has such a loyal and passive fanbase here and in Japan that it still seems no matter what they do, as long as give the otaku what they want then they will always have a "hit". Again that's fine, I just find it hard to rationalize whenever people try to claim to me that their series are masterpieces, original, "genius", superior or whatever, because I just do not see it....especially with K-On, though I don't think anybody has tried to proclaim it as a superior show since the 1st episode.

I guess this is another one of those old points, but for me at least it still seems somewhat relevant, though maybe not for much longer depending on a number of factors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relentlessflame
Despite the fact that this way of phrasing things will forever annoy the heck out of me, on a personal level I do understand what you're getting at. Some of the genre competition you listed raises a pretty high bar in my mind as well. But I don't think it's necessarily a "stumble" for the animation studio; the show is already on track to being another huge mass-market success for them. But of course, not every show will hit a "home run" with every single person. Nothing wrong with that!
When even laid back people like Vexx are struggling to enjoy K-On (and this is a gentleman who adores his 4 girl comedy slice of life from what I've seen and is very loyal to the genre) I have to wonder if there actually hasn't been a bit of a stumble as far as K-On goes. Yes it's a bit of a hit, but not as much as some of us are used to witnessing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
yeah, I'll admit being too shorthanded with that.... what I meant was that, for me, it seemed to be a stumble. Obviously, K-On! is doing quite well in Japan (the most important market). I wonder though if about my "forgettable".... I've watched a number of series now that ardent fans claimed they'd cherish always that now sit quietly in the archives while those fans claim "waifu" on the latest cherry blossom :P
Is this like how Mio was all the rage and then once a cuter even more uptight (and not to mention lolier) version of her showed up in Azusa people seemed to dump her like a bad date? It's kind of funny because you can almost pinpoint the exact moment where the topic switched from "Moe Moe Kyun!" to "Azu-Nyaaaaan~" as far as reactions to this show go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
I think the main reason is that it's Kyo Ani. If it was a lesser known company, expectations might not be as high, I believe.
I think it's more the initial attention and anticipation wouldn't have been at such a high level. Expectations for Kyoani series have never seemed all that high to me. In fact sometimes it appears as if expectations don't even exist.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2009-06-10 at 19:07.
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Old 2009-06-10, 19:44   Link #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Kyoto Animation has such a loyal and passive fanbase here and in Japan that it still seems no matter what they do, as long as give the otaku what they want then they will always have a "hit". Again that's fine, I just find it hard to rationalize whenever people try to claim to me that their series are masterpieces, original, "genius", superior or whatever, because I just do not see it...
That's definitely an old, tired point. Really. Hating on Kyoto Animation because they're popular and you don't "get it" is just so low; it's like a sideswipe at the fans and accusing them of having poor taste (or of being "sheep") just because you happen to not like some studio's work. If there's anything that gets tiresome, it's this. If they consistently produce work that their target audience in Japan loves, that's success to them, even if you happen to think it's overrated generic moe~ crap. If we could at least move past that one after all these years...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
When even laid back people like Vexx are struggling to enjoy K-On (and this is a gentleman who adores his 4 girl comedy slice of life from what I've seen and is very loyal to the genre) I have to wonder if there actually hasn't been a bit of a stumble as far as K-On goes. Yes it's a bit of a hit, but not as much as some of us are used to witnessing.
*facepalm* Co-opting other people's personal opinions like this just to support your "it's not so great after all" argument is a bit low, don't you think? Even if some people who might like the genre aren't totally in love with the show, that doesn't make those who do love it somehow less "legitimate". And the sales charts so far don't seem to suggest that it's only "a bit of a hit". It's not all about us, it's about the show. If someone wants to claim this show is a masterpiece -- because, to them, it is -- we might disagree, but what right do we have to tell them they "must be wrong"? "One's trash is another's treasure." There's no wrong way or reason to enjoy anime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I wonder though if about my "forgettable".... I've watched a number of series now that ardent fans claimed they'd cherish always that now sit quietly in the archives while those fans claim "waifu" on the latest cherry blossom :P
Haha -- that's certainly true. I think many shows are "masterpieces of the moment". It's just the right show at the right time that hits all the right buttons. But then times and circumstances change, and so there's a new "masterpiece" that takes its place. This is why I think it's a bit much to worry about finding anime that "stand the test of time". Enjoying it at that moment is a more achievable goal.


Anyway, with all that being said, I guess it's time to go back to letting people enjoy the show. The next episode will air in around 16 hours.
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Old 2009-06-10, 19:55   Link #132
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Really enjoying K-On!, makes me wish I took up that offer to learn Bass Guitar.
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Old 2009-06-10, 20:17   Link #133
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Uh yeah, I'm not jumping into that philosophical debate on being a critic or what have you because my tastes are very, very peculiar (I'll watch literally everything), and to many here who don't know me, well I come off as hating most everything, or a troll or what have you, but that's how I tend to express myself. It's never been an intention of mine to actually rile anyone up or willingly start an argument, but, well, I'm more vocal (and crude) then most so it rubs people the wrong way more often then not.

That being said, I don't hate K-On. I don't love it either.

I hate Mio, I kinda like Yui (thank you hentai), Mugi is dead to me, and I want to take Ritsu home with me.

They suck COMPLETE ASS as a club, but they're pretty damn good as a band but we keep getting more of the club shoved down our throats, and consistently less and less of the band.

Meh.
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Old 2009-06-10, 20:44   Link #134
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my tastes are very, very peculiar (I'll watch literally everything), and to many here who don't know me, well I come off as hating most everything
Well, this hardly seems surprising, if you ask me. If you literally watch everything, is it really surprising that you dislike a lot of it? And then if you have a compulsion to write about everything you watch, it would therefore seem like you hate most everything. I'm tempted to ask "why watch shows you don't like", but I guess everyone has their reasons.

On the flip side, I suppose, I watch very few shows and only the ones that I think (after doing some research) that I'll have a high likelihood of enjoying. I also drop everything that isn't enjoyable, if I even started watching it in the first place. So, as a result, it would seem like I like everything (but it's more that I like everything I watch, because I only watch what I like).

I guess it's just a difference in styles or something.
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Old 2009-06-10, 20:49   Link #135
Master Chibi
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I meant to write 'anything' instead of everything, as an indication that I'm usually open to most whatever is out there.

That being said, I've made plenty of replies / comments on here (AS rather) that hold no malice to them at all. Check the Maria-sama ga Miteru threads, it's nothing but pure fanboy spooge, haha.

It's just that people take note of me when I walk into a thread for a series like Clannad and suddenly wish the main character's wife was dead, so my moments of happiness get overshadowed easily.

Maybe if I went OD on said posts things would cancel out / negate each other somehow?

Haha~
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Old 2009-06-10, 21:40   Link #136
Vexx
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Interestingly, Mio is the center point for what I do enjoy about K-on! and the reason is quite clear to me -- the designer managed to hit all my buttons for what appeals to me.
Someone who manages to be quiet and Sasaki-ish (AzuDa) yet can shift gears to dynamically assertive (Kagami-firespit) ... of course, they gave her Kagami:L*S eyes as well.
Some demonic combination of Nagato and Kagami.... o.O

Then... then they go and bring in her metaphorical little sister - with twin tails no less.

Argh, the manipulation....
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Old 2009-06-10, 21:52   Link #137
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Notice that Mio and Ritsu are the two members who we know very little about, compared to Yui and Mugi. Besides the pair being friends since young, we don't know much of where they're coming from. There's definitely that air of mystery around Mio.
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Old 2009-06-10, 21:53   Link #138
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Lesbian town.
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Old 2009-06-10, 22:24   Link #139
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Originally Posted by Master Chibi View Post

I hate Mio, I kinda like Yui (thank you hentai), Mugi is dead to me, and I want to take Ritsu home with me.
ROFL @ hentai

damn this is getting better and better
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Old 2009-06-10, 23:26   Link #140
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
That's definitely an old, tired point. Really. Hating on Kyoto Animation because they're popular and you don't "get it" is just so low; it's like a sideswipe at the fans and accusing them of having poor taste (or of being "sheep") just because you happen to not like some studio's work. If there's anything that gets tiresome, it's this. If they consistently produce work that their target audience in Japan loves, that's success to them, even if you happen to think it's overrated generic moe~ crap. If we could at least move past that one after all these years...

*facepalm* Co-opting other people's personal opinions like this just to support your "it's not so great after all" argument is a bit low, don't you think? Even if some people who might like the genre aren't totally in love with the show, that doesn't make those who do love it somehow less "legitimate". And the sales charts so far don't seem to suggest that it's only "a bit of a hit". It's not all about us, it's about the show. If someone wants to claim this show is a masterpiece -- because, to them, it is -- we might disagree, but what right do we have to tell them they "must be wrong"? "One's trash is another's treasure." There's no wrong way or reason to enjoy anime.

Haha -- that's certainly true. I think many shows are "masterpieces of the moment". It's just the right show at the right time that hits all the right buttons. But then times and circumstances change, and so there's a new "masterpiece" that takes its place. This is why I think it's a bit much to worry about finding anime that "stand the test of time". Enjoying it at that moment is a more achievable goal.

Anyway, with all that being said, I guess it's time to go back to letting people enjoy the show. The next episode will air in around 16 hours.
It's weird, you seem to be undertanding what I'm getting at and yet you don't quite pick up on all of it. Not only that but we seem to share an awareness of this "masterpiece of the moment" phenomenon (though again I struggle to rationalize the idea of masterpiece coming up in a topic about K-On), but we also seem to measure success in different ways. You seem to put a lot of weight on how much a series sells, but I put a little more on the impact it leaves with me and whether I've come to care about the characters, the gag bits, the art direction, the music and the overall narrative or storyline. I felt Vexx shared this idea of how much of an impact something leaves on one as a measure of success which is why I chose to quote him. You may see it as co-opting of an opinion, I just see it as an illustation of shared views, though if not I'm sure he'll correct me.

I also think that while it's primarily about the show, that it is about us at some point. Anyway, I believe the point I made was that I find it hard to rationalize something like K-On as a masterpiece. As in it doesn't register. Though you seem to think of this as hating on them. Me though, I just take what I see and react to it and that's about all I can do. If something registers with me like episode 08 did and on a good note then it'll be positive. If not...well......I guess there's always next episode.

Anyway, enough of that, I'm curious now, what do you see in K-On that makes it great and/or enjoyable to you? Maybe if I could step into your shoes I might be able to better understand the situation.
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