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View Poll Results: Eden of the East - Episode 10 Rating
Perfect 10 35 47.30%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 24 32.43%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 14.86%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 4.05%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.35%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-06-13, 02:06   Link #41
izmosmolnar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I'll be out of the house for the rest of the afternoon but I'm running the Psalm in my head while I'm out. Can someone repost the entire OP words again for me? I'll be posting my interpretation of the wrods when I work on it when I get back home.
If you are referring on the engrish text in the OP than here you go:
Spoiler for saving space:
Source, Collected by and credit goes to Kinny Riddle
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Old 2009-06-13, 02:06   Link #42
Kazu-kun
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The real life Juiz is probably Saizo's secretary, as well as the model for the AI Juiz's personality and voice.
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Old 2009-06-13, 02:50   Link #43
drobertbaker
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It's sure great to see that everyone was right all along!!! Now nobody go back and recheck old posts, OK, so we can all continue to bask in our prescience with a clear conscience.

Mononobe says that he is surmising the identity of Mr. Outside. He doesn't know for sure. Although it sounds like a pretty good guess to me. He doesn't even know for sure that Ato is dead.

I think he is telling the truth to IX about that, but I believe he may be lying about why IX erased his memory in order to manipulate him. What he tells IX is that IX was so depressed that he erased his own memory and essentially was committing suicide in front of the White House.

Whereas it's quite possible that Mononobe himself placed IX in that position to get rid of him. Or even that XII erased his memory to give him a fresh start (get over his depression?).

So Mononobe is saying "You were so depressed before, knowing that everyone betrayed you, that you gave up, so now that you know again, you should give up again."

I must say that I'm annoyed at myself for being too lazy to doublecheck a subber's translation. I gave a long polemic about how these guys want to return to the values of the post-war era. Although I did read the first word myself, if I'd read two words further on the phone, I would have seen that the entry said :

"戦後からやり直す"
= sengo kara yarinaosu
= re-do from post-WW2 era
not "take us back to post-WW2 era"

So these guys do not admire the old values and want to to return to them, but rather want to destroy the old values which have led them to their present state, and replace them with different values, redoing the whole rebuilding process in a different way. So they will get rid of the "problematic elderly who cling to their outdated interests" and the NEETs (and everyone else?) and try to do it over with a different group (middle-class, I guess) in charge.

It's so good to know that I was right all along!!!

The Eden gang, looking at the phone records, don't know that X is someone different from IX. They think Takizawa is the one who caused Careless Monday and is the one going to launch the 60 Tomahawks.

The note on the phone for 12/13 was for:

"往復運賃"
= ouhukuunchin
= "round-trip shipping expense"

In other words, IX was going to bring them back, not get rid of them for good. And here they are. And they seem really mad... at somebody.

But I think the returning NEETS have come back to save IX, not to kill him. Maybe they're currently still mad at him, in which case somebody will clue them in. It will be a great scene when the bad guys look up at 20,000 (naked?) NEETS bearing down on them to foil their plans.

It was already a great scene seeing them charging off the ship. Although I didn't have my opera glasses with me, like Hirasawa did.

As for Juiz, this time I did check the subber's translation and I'm glad I did. The note on XII's activity from 12:17 says:

"ジュイス本体"
= Juiz hontai
= Juiz's real form (substance)
not "Juiz herself".

This can't refer to the "human" Juiz as she's still there, clearly not at a hidden location at 23:45.

I will guess that the red-haired woman is the original Juiz, probably Ato's original secretary (concierge). The AI Juiz was built modeled on her to handle concierge duties more superhumanly and of course was given her voice. Loving the old man so, the human Juiz may even have taken it upon herself to complete his dream after his death, and she could be acting in this role as the Supporter, XII.

I mean she really is/was his supporter, wasn't she?

So at 23:17, she saw Mononobe coming down the walk, got "Juiz's real form" to a hidden location, and then could pull the champagne trick at 23:45, knowing that "Juiz's real form" was safely away from the bad guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
- She's a Vocaloid.
Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Good one!

Quote:
Originally Posted by izmosmolnar View Post
Anyway, was it just me who greatly adored the music throughout the episode? I found myself completely speechless how harmonizing the music was to the emotional level. The train-scene with Saki confronting Akira, the Juiz voiced Lady coming in etc.
In fact, the music throughout the whole series has been quite stellar; cool and distinctive, yet well-blended and subtle.

Isn't this a great series?
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Old 2009-06-13, 03:02   Link #44
The_Dominion
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If anyone is wondering how they moved the Juiz AI, then go back and look at the scene before they enter the building, with the trucks with the huge cylinders on them covered in a tarp.

Also the women was obviously the human model for the Juiz AI. And would of course share the same voice. She would probably be the most logical choice for XII, because think about it, how did she know to be there? And that XII is probably the supporter since she knew exactly what was going on.
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Old 2009-06-13, 03:04   Link #45
ButtercupSaiyan
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ARRRGH!! This series! Damn it!

These writers better pull their shit together for the final episode and movie, that's all I'm saying. Higashi no Eden is stringing me along like Lost ...
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Old 2009-06-13, 03:10   Link #46
Schneizel
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Quote:
As for Juiz, this time I did check the subber's translation and I'm glad I did. The note on XII's activity from 12:17 says:

"ジュイス本体"
= Juiz hontai
= Juiz's real form (substance)
not "Juiz herself".

This can't refer to the "human" Juiz as she's still there, clearly not at a hidden location at 23:45.
I don't see what's "inaccurate" about referring to a machine with a female voice as "herself" and hontai is obviously using the machine body meaning here. The real form/substance meaning is wrong for this because it's like saying "Move Juiz's essence" or "Move Juiz's true personality".
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Old 2009-06-13, 03:32   Link #47
Whitemoon648
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Up until episode 10, i thought of this anime as overrated and really not that great.

But episode 10 was epic . The toward the end epic BGM and then stealthiness of the number 12 seleca one step ahead of every one else from the shadows.

Just too epic for words to describe it .
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Old 2009-06-13, 03:57   Link #48
drobertbaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dominion View Post
If anyone is wondering how they moved the Juiz AI, then go back and look at the scene before they enter the building, with the trucks with the huge cylinders on them covered in a tarp.
Right on! Great powers of observation!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneizel View Post
I don't see what's "inaccurate" about referring to a machine with a female voice as "herself" and hontai is obviously using the machine body meaning here. The real form/substance meaning is wrong for this because it's like saying "Move Juiz's essence" or "Move Juiz's true personality".
No offense to the subber (whoever he may be ). I even blamed my own laziness.

I've expressed here before my admiration and gratitude for these unsung heroes. Just for this episode alone, somebody must have been up all night, slaving away for my benefit for no thanks or reward. I personally appreciate it tremendously.

In my opinion, this must be a particularly difficult series to sub; high profile, lots of competition, lots of pressure, all those tiny fleeting phone messages.

The examples I cited were very nuanced. I didn't say "inaccurate". I said "not", which is worse. Sorry

I apologize for my inaccuracy in that characterization. "Herself" can certainly be an interpretation of hontai. I myself feel that a more useful interpretation here (like real form/substance) would express the physicality of the expression so that I know it's not a upload of the software (or essence/personality), for instance.

Again, I have the greatest respect for these guys who certainly owe me nothing. I have no right nor intention to bring anybody to task. They have as much right to interpret expressions as they see fit as I do.
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Last edited by drobertbaker; 2009-06-13 at 06:16.
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Old 2009-06-13, 04:45   Link #49
miroku2192
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Huh...for the BGM in episode 10 at the point where he's told about the betrayals and saki begins crying...that BGM sounds sooo familliar, like it could be linked to..

ohhh gundam 00 s2! It hit me while i was typing this message up, thats what i'm linking it to...don't you all think it sounds a bit like something gundam 00 s2 had in its BGM at certain points? yeah? very captivating
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Old 2009-06-13, 06:50   Link #50
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
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Quote:
In other words, IX was going to bring them back, not get rid of them for good. And here they are. And they seem really mad... at somebody.

But I think the returning NEETS have come back to save IX, not to kill him. Maybe they're currently still mad at him, in which case somebody will clue them in. It will be a great scene when the bad guys look up at 20,000 (naked?) NEETS bearing down on them to foil their plans.
That confirms what I was thinking. So... wow... do you think the 20.000 NEET are going to be Akira's personal army? That would be pretty epic XD the NEET will conquer Japan and transform it into a new EDEN guided by the Messiah Akira!

Ok... stop dreaming...
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Old 2009-06-13, 07:09   Link #51
Dextro
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Oh came on, can't you figure out how Juiz was moved to a secure location? You really can't? She's an AI and hence she's DATA. What's the easiest way to move data from one place to another without anyone noticing? The web!!! They just uploaded the AI software to some other piece of hardware.

And for someone who wondered why Juiz had different "personalities" depending on the person she was talking to that's easy to explain too: she's a machine meant to serve and "judge" (Juiz = Judge) the requests of the Seleção and hence she is probably programmed to adapt to each individual seleção in order to serve them better.
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Old 2009-06-13, 07:25   Link #52
Jan-Poo
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Messiah... Akira... conquering Tokyo... why all this sounds somewhat familiar...
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Old 2009-06-13, 08:04   Link #53
miroku2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Messiah... Akira... conquering Tokyo... why all this sounds somewhat familiar...
a - kira? like one kira? :O

aka a-yagami light aka one yagami light :O))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))0
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Old 2009-06-13, 08:59   Link #54
Jan-Poo
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No I was thinking about something less twisted XD

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17.../ENI/akira.jpg

Well you probably need to know the manga to understand the analogy, because the movie cuts on those parts.
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Old 2009-06-13, 09:02   Link #55
BetoJR
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I think he meant Akira, really. You know, this one:



Youngsters, these days...

Edit ADD:
Dang, beat to the punch...
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Old 2009-06-13, 09:07   Link #56
MeoTwister5
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Ok here's what I think: I'd say that the Psalm-like praises being shown on screen in the OP are being made to describe the actions of Akira Takizawa himself. The revelation that Akira did have an active role in the prevention of the activities of tha allied Selecao seem to support it. Let me break it down by section.

I saw you in Heaven and heard of your glory
You saved our world from the fallen angels
I saw Messiah standing
Standing before me with no words
Nothing but "Hope"
When we lost dread, a Demon was laughing
But now you are showing us wonder
Giving your love
With awe, down on my knees again
I've got to know you're the one
The only one reveals the world


From what I can tell, the first section seems to be either from the POV of Saki or maybe even the NEETs.

The first 2 lines seem to indicate Akira as the savior who saved the Japanese people on Careless Monday. The "Fallen Angels" refer to most likely to the 11 missles that struck Japan but killed no one, but could also mean the violent Selecao.

The next 2 lines, when focusing on the words "Standing", "Messiah" and "No words", seem to point to the moment they met on the White House front walk. Before they even met, Selecao were obviously referred to as Messiahs, and Akira was essentially silent before his mind was wiped, standing there with his gun. A bit of a stretch in truth.

The 2 lines after that seems to point to their eventual return to Japan. The Demon probably refers to the Selecao trying to track down Akira for his actions, quite possibly XII himself. The wonders I guess would be the mall and the boat ride where Akira almost literally swept her off his feet with his happy-go-lucky attitude and differing views on life and society in Japan.

"Giving you love" might have symbolized when he kissed her but I think to differ. It most probably means his attempt to influence her way of thinking, to break free from the ultrastructured norms of society, symbolized by Ohsugi.

The final 3 lines I guess is when Saki probably saw something brilliant and different in Akira, a person who thought outside the box. "The only one reveals the world" probably tried to say "Reveal a New World", with his abilities as a Selecao and his support of the Eden Program trying to change the face of Japanese society.

THE ABUSE OF GREATNESS
IS WHEN
IT DISJOINS REMORESE
FROM POWER


I assume it's supposed to be Remorse. It obviously makes the link that a person must have remorse if he so chooses to abuse his powers or abilities. This is an obvious finger pointed at the Selecao who use their power for reasons aside from their role, linked to the idea of the nobeless oblige. Taking the whole section as one, it's basically saying that a great person is someone who knows when to feel remorse and seeks penance when he ends up using his powers for improper ends. Greatness is lost and abused when one uses their powers for wrong things and feels no remorse for their actions. As of episode 10, it points at IX.

The King has come!
To lighten up our feet

The King has come! With justice till the end

The King has come!
To save us from
the dark
Who could ever doubt? We have faith


I believe the POV on these are the NEETs. Taken as a whole, it's a praise for the Lord's liberation. In this case, apparently it means their release from being NEETs trapped in their rooms wasting away their lives. The symbolism is pretty obvious for the most part, but based on episode 10 it makes it more obvious when the NEETs were released from the cargo containers back in Japan. At the end of the section, apparently they believed enough (maybe eventually) in Akira to free them and show them the "light".

Let me walk with you when I'm lost in the wild
I know you always lead me to another Eden
Let me bless your name, O Lord, O Lord
Your words will never fade away
Since we believe you're the light on earth
Reveals the world


This is probably the most difficult for me to decipher because it points to an event we haven't seen yet. If anything, apparently Akira might end up being the game's winner and true "Messiah:. He will lead humanity to a new Eden, which would probably mean a transfigured Japan, and that his words and deeds will be remembered. At the end of the section, apparently those who do know him are convinced that he was indeed the one to change Japan, he who reveals a "new" world.

The biggest issue with the last section is that, with emphasis on Messianic Liberation, we can't forget that the Messiah is eventually made a sacrifice for change. Given the events of episode 10, it sets up death flags everywhere. Is Akira the "Messiah" who's life would also be sacrificed for a new Japan?

Only time will tell.
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Old 2009-06-13, 09:34   Link #57
miroku2192
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hehe never watched akira, though was recommended to watch it :X
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Old 2009-06-13, 10:03   Link #58
jtstellar
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Join Date: May 2004
i don't know why the girl and her bunch of friends are even there, they're of no contribution to the cause of the male lead whatsoever so far and are consequently such a drag to the story. i don't get why there always has to be these useless female co-lead characters, but i guess we'll see at the end.
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Old 2009-06-13, 10:03   Link #59
Blaat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
It's funny that #10 managed to understand that the name "Seleção" came from the Brasilian Soccer team but didn't manage to take note that there are only 11 people in a soccer team and there are 12 Seleção...
Actually he got this right as well, don't forget the 12th player in the seleção is the 'supporter' not an actual participant. So I'm guessing he represents either the referee or the coach.
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Old 2009-06-13, 10:09   Link #60
Jan-Poo
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The coach is the only option, there are 4 referees in soccer (three originally).
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