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Old 2009-06-13, 07:51   Link #21
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Not that long ago, my grandparents they are still alive( and my grandma is right across the living room from me right now) and they lived during the Japanese occupation of Korea.
Also I would think talking about what Japanese during the war and some of the problems in their current society is related to their culture. This isn't a blame game we all know what happened. I would think discussing about this is a step for East Asians to understand each other and be more accepting to each other.
If understanding a different culture is your only aspiration, then the tone of your post is not in sync with your persevarence. The way your post reads, it's almost as if you are poking for a reaction. Hopefully, no one in this thread will be compelled to take on a defensive stance. That would be very highly silly of them in my extremely humble opinion.
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Old 2009-06-13, 08:05   Link #22
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
If understanding a different culture is your only aspiration, then the tone of your post is not in sync with your persevarence. The way your post reads, it's almost as if you are poking for a reaction. Hopefully, no one in this thread will be compelled to take on a defensive stance. That would be very highly silly of them in my extremely humble opinion.
I am sorry about that but on topic like this I get angry very easily and have very difficult time controlling it
Maybe I should just stay away for now and let other discuses more on this topic as I probably won't be able to have positive contribution.
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Old 2009-06-13, 08:29   Link #23
-HyugaNeji-
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How funny. I just read an article about Anne Frank in one of the biggest german newspapers and they say, that Anne Frank has a nearly divine status in Japan. I try to translate a specific part of that article. Asked about the recognition of Anne Frank worldwide, her still living cousin says:

...It's exceptionally extreme in Japan. Anne Frank is some kind of Saint there. There is an Anne-Frank rose which gets planted in all schools throughout japan as a symbol of peace. In some cities there are even Anne-Frank statues. And when a tourist guide said that i'm her cousin, the people around us began to screech.

The journalist is wondering, why the japanese are so hysterical about her...

....I don't know, but maybe they don't want to talk about their own, terrible past. They somehow adopted the holocaust. And that is symbolized by Anne-Frank...

Here's the translated Article (i think it's understandable, but the translation sucks of course^^).

http://translate.google.de/translate...hl=de&ie=UTF-8

I think that's the main point. It seems the japanese public is afraid to REALLY confront their own terrible past. Confront their own fears and weaknesses. They are TOO afraid of shame. In my oppinion they have a twisted sense of honor, that is NOT honest. It limits them. When i was in japan, i found their social behaviour awkward at times, even though i had no problem with it. Hey, it's just another culture i can live with that. But i still got the impression, that they have a hard time beeing honest. Even in Anime they portray these things, which can result in very subtle and psychological mobbing. That's what i mean earlier, when i said, i can't really believe their smile. It seemed dishonest to me alot of times.

Maybe, all that is a result of the centuries of japanese isolation. I don't know. But in a globalized world, it just seems strange, that a supposedly modern country like japan, is still living with a mindset that belongs to the 19th and early 20th century. And if you don't talk about these things, nothing will ever change.

Even here in that dicussion, japanese people like noraemon, seem to have a twisted sense of reality and a wrong perception of their own country.
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Old 2009-06-13, 09:02   Link #24
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HyugaNeji, your posts are filled to the rim with hatred, and I don't think we can have any civil discussion.
I could argue or even agree with you on some points, but your tone of posts completely turns me off from even attempting to engage in a civil conversation with you.
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Old 2009-06-13, 09:18   Link #25
-HyugaNeji-
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
HyugaNeji, your posts are filled to the rim with hatred, and I don't think we can have any civil discussion with someone like you.
I could argue or even agree with you on some points, but your tone of posts completely turns me off from even attempting to engage in a civil conversation with you.
Ahoige, how can you even say that? It's not about haterage at all. This is insulting. Just because you're too sensitive to deal with straight talk, it doesn't mean my postings are not valid or full of haterage. Instead of dealing with the arguments, you rather attack me. THIS behaviour is part of the problem. You should learn to deal with different forms of discussions and oppinions, without immediately attacking the person itself. So, you're basically saying, you only talk to people who talk the way YOU like? Quite oppressive. Really. It shocks me that you see hate in any of my posts...
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Old 2009-06-13, 09:22   Link #26
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -HyugaNeji- View Post
Ahoige, how can you even say that? It's not about haterage at all. This is insulting. Just because you're too sensitive to deal with straight talk, it doesn't mean my postings are not valid or full of haterage. Instead of dealing with the arguments, you rather attack me. THIS behaviour is part of the problem. You should learn to deal with different forms of discussions and oppinions, without immediately attacking the person itself. So, you're basically saying, you only talk to people who talk the way YOU like? Quite oppressive. Really. It shocks me that you see hate in any of my posts...
It's not an attack, it's my suggestion for you to calm down, or take this elsewhere.
You might wanna re-read your own post you just typed here, it's filled with rage and contempt, and aggressive tone.

I don't mind having this discussion at all, if you would chill the heck out first.
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Old 2009-06-13, 09:26   Link #27
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noraemon View Post
I apologize as a Japanese.
I am sorry very much.
It's not your fault, so there's no need to apologise
Quote:
I think that it is natural that You feel the unpleasantness.
However, I do not think that the Japanese had the ulterior motive.
The black person might have been unusual. I think that it is not controlled curiosity, and the Japanese has stared at you.
But I am mysterious because there are many black people in Tokyo.・・・I can understand that it is a local city, but
I do not think that the Japanese is openhearted.
However, the Japanese does not obstruct a foreigner.
It takes time a little till Japanese is openhearted.
A Japanese may be to be shy.It may be to be a timid person.
I did explain to the rest of the board the reasons that natives are likely to stare, I gave good and bad examples from it all in case other Westerners may be curious and concluded with that is needed to help Japanese to feel more confortable with us.
For most part my posts should be neutral in tone, so it's not an attack on your nationality or you personally.
It's just the way things currently happen to be over here.
Quote:
The reason why the Japanese customhouse are severe thinks that there is a North Korean problem.

The Japanese master is U.S.A., I feel some unpleasantness in this expression.

I wish that you do not dislike Japan.
I don't dislike Japan, so don't worry there.
Feel free to re-read this post I left for you:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=1159

To say that America are their masters, yeah there was un underlaying tone of sarcasm (hiniku) in there, based on a lot of influences from the US that Japanese follow typically, I'm fairly sure the BBC have used similar terms as I've done in the past too.
(Not really a neutral stance, I know)
You mention it as a N.Korean problem, though the 'official' reason both on Japanese news and Western news was to combat 'terrorism', because Japan had deployed the JSDF to Iraq too, so there was a risk that they'd attack Japan too ... but again I don't think too many N.Koreans would be in a hurry to visit Japan to cause trouble, they'd probably leave that to their leaders.

So for the Japanese to keep our biometric data not only as tourists but any foreigner who wants to live in Japan on a long term basis, still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
Taking in the bigger picture, I can't pretend to be pleased about that no matter what reason they give, especially since Japan's a fairly safe place to live for most part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
HyugaNeji, your posts are filled to the rim with hatred, and I don't think we can have any civil discussion.
I could argue or even agree with you on some points, but your tone of posts completely turns me off from even attempting to engage in a civil conversation with you.
Agreed.
I'm not too clued up on the war stuffs above, but there's some serious aggression on your end that's just an instant turn off, not many people would consider to read your posts or listen to your points seriously when there's this aura of extreme negativity going on there.
Everyone has a right to express their views, opposing or not, but be civil with it, take into consideration that English is not everyone's first language and debate rationally.
As for culture stuffs, it's back to the fence for me until the next question pops up ^^
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Old 2009-06-13, 10:37   Link #28
-HyugaNeji-
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English is not my mother tongue either, which can be part of the problem. I might not be able to articulate my thought as well as in german. But i still don't see where my tone is agressive. Why do you think so? Because i talk about negative aspects of japanese culture? When talking about negative things (especially racism/xenophobia), it's not possible to make it sound positive and nice. Racism and xenophobia is what it is. Disgusting. There's no need to wrap the words in sugar. And please realize, that i, as a german (like everyone in my country) went through a serious process to come to terms with the past. We can't even avoid it. That's why i'm shocked when i read that even historybooks in japan aren't objective about the japanese past. Japan had nearly an equal role in the past, just like germany (except for asia).

What i ask for is honesty, because that's what everyone expects from germany. We're even viewed with caution in europe when we just support our national football team to a certain extent, while japanese teachers get serious problems when they don't sing the national anthem.. Or when minorities get discriminated. Nobody cares. The world definately turns both eyes/ears away when it comes to japan.
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Old 2009-06-13, 10:40   Link #29
Fome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
It's not an attack, it's my suggestion for you to calm down, or take this elsewhere.
You might wanna re-read your own post you just typed here, it's filled with rage and contempt, and aggressive tone.

I don't mind having this discussion at all, if you would chill the heck out first.
I don't detect any rage. Maybe you're too sensitive?
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Old 2009-06-13, 10:47   Link #30
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fome View Post
I don't detect any rage. Maybe you're too sensitive?
Just look at the post right above you. It speaks for itself.
Not to mention, I went and checked his posts from the past. More than half of his recent posts here on AS forums is expression of hatred of Japanese, even outside of this thread.

I can't possibly take someone like that seriously.
I mean, how am I supposed to talk to someone whose entire posts are repetition of I hate you, you people are all disgusting?

-HyugaNeji-, your same points have been raised by many other members of this forum, without the hate and rage you express.
You CAN raise these points while still being civilized. Perhaps you don't know how, but that's not our problem.
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Old 2009-06-13, 10:58   Link #31
Fome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Just look at the post right above you. It speaks for itself.
Not to mention, I went and checked his posts from the past. More than half of his recent posts here on AS forums is expression of hatred of Japanese, even outside of this thread.

I can't possibly take someone like that seriously.
I mean, how am I supposed to talk to someone whose entire posts are repetition of I hate you, you people are all disgusting?

-HyugaNeji-, your same points have been raised by many other members of this forum, without the hate and rage you express.
You CAN raise these points while still being civilized. Perhaps you don't know how, but that's not our problem.
I read it again, and don't see the hatred. He clearly doesn't hate the Japanese. He just thinks they are weird. Just speaks (types?) a little forcefully is all.
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Old 2009-06-13, 11:06   Link #32
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Go check on his posts from clicking on his name.
Everything he says is "japanese is this" "Japanese is that", all of which comes down to Japanese are disgusting people.

YOU, Fome, might not take offense to that, but if you're on the receiving end of this guy's wrath, it's quite offensive.
Imagine someone who keeps repeating Americans are racist white supremists, you people are disgusting, you people makes me sick, and try to have conversation with someone like that.
(assuming you're American)

*shrug* whatever, I'll get out of here now, and let the mods decide what is appropriate here and not.
I just wanted him to chill out so constructive criticisms and discussion could be had, but it doesn't seem like the case.
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Old 2009-06-13, 11:13   Link #33
Fome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Go check on his posts from clicking on his name.
Everything he says is "japanese is this" "Japanese is that", all of which comes down to Japanese are disgusting people.

YOU, Fome, might not take offense to that, but if you're on the receiving end of this guy's wrath, it's quite offensive.
Imagine someone who keeps repeating Americans are racist white supremists, you people are disgusting, you people makes me sick, and try to have conversation with someone like that.
(assuming you're American)

*shrug* whatever, I'll get out of here now, and let the mods decide what is appropriate here and not.
I just wanted him to chill out so constructive criticisms and discussion could be had, but it doesn't seem like the case.
Much of America IS disgusting. But I guess I'm a self-loathing American.

But on topic, I just don't see the lines he says that boil down to "Japan is disgusting."
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Old 2009-06-13, 11:16   Link #34
-HyugaNeji-
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Go check on his posts from clicking on his name.
Everything he says is "japanese is this" "Japanese is that", all of which comes down to Japanese are disgusting people.

YOU, Fome, might not take offense to that, but if you're on the receiving end of this guy's wrath, it's quite offensive.
Imagine someone who keeps repeating Americans are racist white supremists, you people are disgusting, you people makes me sick, and try to have conversation with someone like that.
(assuming you're American)
Seriuosly, you're posts are the only insulting ones in that thread. I can't even imagine how you come up with all of this. Can you please just stop now and write me PM's instead of destroying the discussion? The points i made are valid and also belong in such discussions. You're just reacting WAY too sensitive. Of course i'm not overgeneralizing and i'm not really blaming the japanese people as a whole. It's more the government that has done way too little in the past and nowadays to fight discrimination and to come to terms with the past! In an honest way. How can you even deny that? You act all wise but use argumentum ad hominem the whole time. This doesn't work.
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Old 2009-06-13, 11:18   Link #35
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -HyugaNeji- View Post
Seriuosly, you're posts are the only insulting ones in that thread. I can't even imagine how you come up with all of this. Can you please just stop now and write me PM's instead of destroying the discussion? The points i made are valid and also belong in such discussions. You're just reacting WAY too sensitive. Of course i'm not overgeneralizing and i'm not really blaming the japanese people as a whole. It's more the government that has done way too little in the past and nowadays to fight discrimination and to come to terms with the past! In an honest way. How can you even deny that? You act all wise but use argumentum ad hominem the whole time. This doesn't work.
Quote:
It IS fact, that Japan is not very friendly towards iforeigners There's enough statistics. In fact. Don't japaneses see themselves as direct decsendends from their God's? They feel as a specific group of people. You may live in Japan as a foreigner, you may work there, but you' may never really be accepted in this group of people, because you're not japanese. (That's at least what i read about japan)
Your own words man, your own words.
You DO over generalize people in general, and like many people who do such, you completely self-deny it.

And "what I read about Japan"? You might want to take that with a grain of salt.
There are people who write "in general, Germans hate the foreigners". I've seen many articles and books such as this, but I do not take that at face value either.
You're hating on people from very skewed one-sided information you get.

The points you made are all valid? No. Some points are, and some points are exaggerated.
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Old 2009-06-13, 11:23   Link #36
-HyugaNeji-
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Your own words man, your own words.
You DO over generalize people in general, and like many people who do such, you completely self-deny it.

And "what I read about Japan"? You might want to take that with a grain of salt.
There are people who write "in general, Germans hate the foreigners". I've seen many articles and books such as this, but I do not take that at face value either.
You're hating on people from very skewed information you get.
Ok, i deeply apologize for the use of these words aohige. It's not what i meant to say, but in the heat of discussion it can happen.

Btw. If foreigners hate germans i can't blame them, considering our past. I try my best to change that impression though.
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Old 2009-06-13, 11:27   Link #37
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Originally Posted by -HyugaNeji- View Post
Ok, i deeply apologize for the use of these words aohige. It's not what i meant to say, but in the heat of discussion it can happen.

Btw. If foreigners hate germans i can't blame them, considering our past. I try my best to change that impression though.
I disagree. I don't respect people who generalize an entire nation of people, for something they aren't involved directly in.

And besides, my point is that there are articles that say GERMANS hate the foreigners, not the other way around.
But I do not believe Germans in general to be racists, or xenophobic.
Such statements are often written by people who have hostility towards them, and should be taken with grain of salt.

Japanese education systems are not as biased as you think. I went to Japanese school myself, and nowhere did it EVER glorify the Imperial Japanese army. Never.
In general Japan was treated as the antagonists of WWII, just like everywhere else in the world. But at the same time, they also focus on tragedy of war, and destruction it brought to Japan.
Text books in Japan are in general very anti-war, and strongly implies mistakes were made that should never happen again.
This is the basis of why Japanese fiction tend to be very strong in anti-war message. It comes from the education system.

Now, certain neighbhoring countries will claim this propaganda crap about Japan glorifying its role in WWII, but it's total crap.
Hell, I've seen teachers in US that glorifies the confederation more often.

They ARE however, correct in that text books cover very little over treatment of koreans post-WWII in Japan. That should be ammended, IMO.
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