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Old 2009-06-15, 06:58   Link #221
Miko Miko
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: England
Age: 20
My favourite light novels which I am reading are:

Shinigami no Ballad [Vol.2]
Haruhi Suzumiya [Vol.4]
Shakugan no Shana [Vol.1]
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Old 2009-06-15, 09:58   Link #222
seaghyn16
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doraneko View Post
As a reader, you can skip whatever you don't understand and simply enjoy what you can get out of the original text. But as a translator, there is no way for you to leave blanks for readers to fill in. Basically you are not only responsible to yourself, but also to the readers and the author too.
Amen Brother.

As far as reading goes...I usually read like on average, every 3rd word. There are some sentences I don't get at all, and some sentences I know entirely. It all depends. Generally, before translating a synopsis, I'll get the back of the book in .jpg, and use Smart OCR Lite to get the text into editable form, and lookup all the Kanji/words I don't know...which there are alot of.

My University entrance exams are also coming up. June 21st. .

Quote:
I mean, can't people find time to translate a chapter a month, or 1-2 pages a day?
I found out with Puipui! (which I'm already translating, so really can't take any more novels) that a normal light novel has around 250 pages.

2 pages gets me tired, so say 1 page a day. 30 days in a month = 30 pages a month. 8 months for a volume. Normally, the Puipui! volumes have 2 to 3 chapters. You can see how many months for a chapter at this rate . (volume 1 is the exception)

Also, this is just getting started, (by yours truly and the wonderful folks at B-T)

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...title=Database

(Sorry Neo-Sam, couldn't wait any longer ^_^)
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Old 2009-06-15, 10:19   Link #223
NeoSam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaghyn16 View Post
Also, this is just getting started, (by yours truly and the wonderful folks at B-T)

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...title=Database

(Sorry Neo-Sam, couldn't wait any longer ^_^)
Ahh >_< I was recently contacted by Eclipse, and he will be working on the site soon... please don't give up on me >_<
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Last edited by NeoSam; 2009-06-15 at 10:38.
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Old 2009-06-17, 07:25   Link #224
seaghyn16
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@apr

About that image on the last page...It was so awesomely epic, I'm using it as the current database image here: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...title=Database

If you don't want it there, just tell me and I'll get rid of it. ^_^

@NeoSam

What kind of time frame does he have?
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Old 2009-06-17, 12:38   Link #225
NeoSam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaghyn16 View Post
@NeoSam

What kind of time frame does he have?
Hmm... I think we can work on the db right now, and can leave whatever "updates" to the site for later, I'll ask him and return with an answer

The db is totally functional, and pages can be added to it, what's left are only small details (which I think are important), but maybe can be delayed for later, so I'll ask Eclipse about it...

Can you still help us with the light novel database? or are you only dedicated to working with baka-tsuki right now?
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Old 2009-06-17, 15:56   Link #226
NeoSam
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Ok, the site can be used there will be updates to the site later, but these updates shouldn't affect the added pages.
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Old 2009-06-17, 23:57   Link #227
seaghyn16
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okay. Then if you look at what I've done at the B-T site, just let me know if the page formatting is okay, or if there is something I should add/take out or whatever for conformity. Then I'll get started, and I guess we'll just move the project over to the db.
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Old 2009-06-18, 08:58   Link #228
NeoSam
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seaghyn16, lets continue the discussion in ComiPress forum's private messages.

Edit:

I have a few ideas about what to do for it to look even better and more organized in the db, please contact me in ComiPress forum...
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Old 2009-06-18, 11:50   Link #229
meh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doraneko View Post
Well, knowledge to the Japanese language is only the most basic requirement. A very good grasp of Japanese cultural stuff, current affairs, as well as superb English writing skills are equally necessary for one to be an acceptable translator. Even a perfect understanding of the original text cannot guarantee a perfect translation as there are countless local wordplays and terms that are difficult to transfer to English (feel free to send me a sample translation of Yuusuke Yamada's work if you want to prove otherwise ). Of course, frequent grammar corrections by editors with little knowledge on Japanese and the original text will only further widen the distortion.

As a reader, you can skip whatever you don't understand and simply enjoy what you can get out of the original text. But as a translator, there is no way for you to leave blanks for readers to fill in. Basically you are not only responsible to yourself, but also to the readers and the author too. (Readers tend to put the author rather than the amateur translator at fault if the final text turns out to be subpar, effectively killing off any future chance of official English releases.)

For me, I got enough poking on my horrendous English by the editors in my scanlation group . I may as well sit back and read another novel instead of making a half-baked work that looks like a fill-in-the-blank exercise.


Same for me too. IMO the perfect JE translator would be a native English speaker with a high level of Japanese capability, given the vast differences between the Japanese and English knowledge and the creative writing capability required for one to fully express the nuances of Japanese in English.
It seems to me that people have too much expectations from translations, whether they be from the audience or the translators themselves.

IMO, translation is an art, not a science. There is no correct or incorrect way per se. It's just a matter of the result being entertaining or easy to read. Trying to preserve puns and other word play when translating from dissimilar languages is asking for a headache. Preservation of accuracy requires sacrifices in the easiness of reading, and vice versa.

So no matter what you do, something is always sacrificed. This holds true even for commercial translations for major, major works with professional translators and editors. Not to mention online translation groups where everyone involved is working for free in their spare time.

In the end, a translation should be judged mainly by the result and not the source. Do the readers find the English version enjoyable? If so, then it's a success. Whether the English version matches the original Japanese version IMO is immaterial. We're not talking about a manual for a nuclear device or something. These are fiction written mainly for teenagers.
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Old 2009-06-19, 01:04   Link #230
Ryuou
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Age: 26
Man I haven't been to this thread in a while it seems. In response to what Matt was saying about translations, I would've said pretty much the same as what was already said. Time, difficulty, it's not the same as just reading it for yourself. And I agree with meh's comment about translating being an art.

@ NeoSam - Hey, what was the address for the DB site you're setting up again? I don't know if I still have that. And it looks like it's finally getting somewhere, huh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaghyn16 View Post
About that image on the last page...It was so awesomely epic
Haha, yes it was.
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Old 2009-06-19, 05:54   Link #231
NeoSam
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Originally Posted by Ryuou View Post
@ NeoSam - Hey, what was the address for the DB site you're setting up again? I don't know if I still have that. And it looks like it's finally getting somewhere, huh.
http://db.lightnovel.org/

The site is functional, and can be used... though there are a few tweaks to the site that I want and the addition of a few templates/extensions to it, which will make it IMO more perfect. These tweaks will be handled by Eclipse later, once he has a free time.
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Old 2009-06-19, 10:52   Link #232
NeoSam
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A sidebar called category has been created, it has authors, illustrators, light novels, and light novel labels.

For now I have created the light novel labels page: (which the category "light novel labels" links to)
http://db.lightnovel.org/index.php?t...t_Novel_Labels

Any help is welcome...
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Old 2009-06-19, 12:13   Link #233
Master Assassin
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Location: All ghillied up spying on someone ~2,000 yards away using telescope sights.
Age: 25
... Currently, I'm continuing to... uh, "stalk" a certain novel which currently has the Chinese translations available, and trying to comprehend a bit of its contents by using an online translator (since I have next to zero knowledge of Chinese)...

... man, well, that shows one of the woes for a translator (and also translator wannabes).
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Old 2009-06-20, 08:01   Link #234
Doraneko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meh View Post
IMO, translation is an art, not a science. There is no correct or incorrect way per se. It's just a matter of the result being entertaining or easy to read. Trying to preserve puns and other word play when translating from dissimilar languages is asking for a headache. Preservation of accuracy requires sacrifices in the easiness of reading, and vice versa.
Hehe somehow I find it much easier to translate nuclear device manuals than literature works.

It is indeed very true that translation is an art of itself. But the more interesting thing is that unlike most other kinds of art, which stress on self-expression, translations are expected to be transparent layers above the original work invisible to the target reader.

So no, I didn't mean that everything should be preserved word-by-word. Rather, the essence should be extracted skilfully, so that the reading experience per se is kept intact with as little distortion as possible.

Of course, it is impossible to completely wipe out such distortion unless you bring structural changes to the target language. But as translators, they have the responsibility to keep the damage at a minimum by utilizing various creative techniques: this is where the "art" part of translation kicks in.

Btw, there is no inverse proportional relationship between accuracy and ease of reading and they are far from being a zero-sum game. Otherwise translation would be regarded as a science instead of an art .

Quote:
In the end, a translation should be judged mainly by the result and not the source. Do the readers find the English version enjoyable? If so, then it's a success. Whether the English version matches the original Japanese version IMO is immaterial.
Well, it depends on your priorities as a translator: for promoting the original work so as to raise its chance of getting licensed, or for catering to the online readers by progressively shaping a certain work into a form that would entertain them.

But regardless of your priorities; people will always treat your translation work as something "by" the author and pay little notice to the "middleman" in between. I think the implication of such should be easy enough to understand.

Last edited by Doraneko; 2009-06-20 at 08:18. Reason: >_<
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Old 2009-07-07, 06:31   Link #235
NeoSam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuou View Post
@ NeoSam - Hey, what was the address for the DB site you're setting up again? I don't know if I still have that. And it looks like it's finally getting somewhere, huh.
Look at this title for example:
http://db.lightnovel.org/index.php?title=Dragon_Crisis!

If possible please give us your help Ryou
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Old 2009-07-07, 23:30   Link #236
seaghyn16
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lol, Neo, you gave the wrong link again! ^_^

http://db.lightnovel.org/index.php?title=Dragon_Crisis!

Well, at least the ! mark wasn't included for some reason...
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Old 2009-07-09, 01:27   Link #237
kuroishinigami
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Join Date: Jan 2009
wow, nice database. But still too little title in that lol. I would like to help, but I suck at reviewing something >.<
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Old 2009-07-11, 07:09   Link #238
NeoSam
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damn "!" LOL >_<

Guys, check this article out:
http://www.haikasoru.com/?p=251

Matt has answered their questions and the lightnovel.org site got a little publicity
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Old 2009-07-12, 09:57   Link #239
seaghyn16
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It seems a teeeeeny bit harsh on light novels, but if they're trying to emphasize the fact that their books aren't light novels, and are written as literature, and not for us who enjoy fun quicker reads, it's kind of understandable.

good article.
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Old 2009-07-26, 01:25   Link #240
Matt122005
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Location: Where I am, what more do you need to know?
Actually, about that Seaghn16, that article did kind of downplay light novels. I however didn't think that Cunningham's definition of light novels was specific enough. So that got me wondering, what really is the definition of a light novel? What exactly is it? lol

I've written a short article on a blog surrounding the definition of a light novel. Do you agree with the conclusion I draw in it? http://ranobecafe.wordpress.com/2009...a-light-novel/

I know this a pretty hot bed topic, but I tried to formulate to the best that I could, the best conclusion reachable.

-Matt
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