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Old 2009-06-07, 15:11   Link #101
Monitkowa
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Idea to create a wolf girl was great.
She is godness. I'd like to have her tail *____*
Her seiyuu is rly great. Much pretty voice.
Once of my fav female characters
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Old 2009-06-14, 04:07   Link #102
Ichihara Asako
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Funimation have left me in despair. They've opted for the L spelling; http://funimation.com/SpiceandWolf/ and here I was looking forward to buying the box, I think I'll cough up extra for the R2s instead (didn't end up getting the Blu-ray collector's edition due to incredibly poor exchange rate making it over $50 per episode).
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Old 2009-06-14, 10:18   Link #103
wandering-dreamer
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What do you mean by the L spelling? "Wolf" makes a lot more sense than "worf," I think one of the most important steps in translation is to make sure you translating an actual word...
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Old 2009-06-14, 11:11   Link #104
salv87
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I think what he means is that they made HoLo and not HoRo.
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Old 2009-06-14, 17:24   Link #105
wandering-dreamer
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Oh okay. Whoa, that is really strange, especially since Yen Press (which is doing the English release of the manga and novels) is sticking with Horo. And YP usually follow the official romantization, that's really odd on Funimations part. Actually, I can't ever remember seeing people call her Holo...
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Old 2009-06-14, 20:50   Link #106
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Some idiot in Japan doing art work used "Holo" instead of "Horo" (I dunno, failed romaji in school, didn't get the memo on modern romaji)? So there's been this little slap-fight over it ever since (like the wikipedia war over the spelling -- many good arguments on both sides but I tend to support "Horo" as
I haven't seen a published book using ー'lo' for ’ほろ’ (ホロ) in years (or any kana chart that translates the "r" row as "l"). Also, when the actors say "Chloe" (Kuroe) you can hear them shooting for an "L" sound.... whereas "Horo" dives directly for the "r". Obviously we could argue about that forever.

The best argument *for* "Holo" seems to be that it is written in katakana... but there really aren't any European names like that (as there is for Lawrence Kraft). The best argument *for* "Horo" seems to be the Ainu word-for-wolf connection (horokeu), but there's that katakana issue.
To me, the katakana issue is cleared up by looking at an Ainu dictionary --- Ainu words are written in katakana since they aren't "native Japanese" o.O --> http://books.google.com/books?id=Cd0...=2_0#PPA138,M1 (scan down a bit for 'horokeu' and observe what japanese characters are used)

Heh, I do note the wikipedia war seems to have tilted to a solution but we have two major conflicting points as apparently Yen Press may be going with "Horo".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_and_Wolf

Last edited by Vexx; 2009-06-14 at 21:19.
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Old 2009-06-15, 09:17   Link #107
LKK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
but we have two major conflicting points as apparently Yen Press may be going with "Horo".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_and_Wolf
Romanizations in official US products have to be approved by the Japanese licensors. (So I've been told by at least one manga editor.) Sometimes the Japanese licensors don't care & accept what the US company suggests. Other times, the Japanese are insistent that a name be romanized a specific way. The US company must accept the Japanese spelling even if it doesn't match the way a US person might romanize the name. My guess as to why Funimation's and Yen Press's spellings of Horo don't match is because Funimation's licensor insisted the name be spelled with an L while Yen Press's licensor thought differently or accepted YP's recommendation. I repeat, this is only my guess though. I haven't heard any officially stated reason.
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Old 2009-06-15, 15:04   Link #108
wandering-dreamer
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I remember that seeing a post before on the YP site that they go with the official spelling (I think the debate was over Pandora Hearts actually) so I assumed that they were going with the official spelling of Horo as well. And also seeing where Horo appears to come from I really don't get why some people are going with Holo. Then again, Japan seems to have serious issues spelling foreign names, it seems like every fandom has some character with a clearly western name that is misspelled.
So I guess I'm just going to be peeved at the subtitles for Spice and Wolf, might even end up putting a post-it note on my box saying "IT'S HORO NOT HOLO!"
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Old 2009-06-15, 15:31   Link #109
Vexx
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<shrug> I probably would have conceded the debate because of the katakana counter-argument until I learned that all Ainu words are spelled using katakana. That kind of blows a hole in the "should be treated like Lawrence and Chloe" assertion. That coupled with japanese voice actor pronunciations and standard romaji charts just kind of nails it in favor of "Horo" for me. So it goes.... certainly an amazing amount of energy spent on it from both sides.
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Old 2009-06-15, 21:03   Link #110
Masanori Ota
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I don't even care about WHY it should be spelled a certain way. R is a superior letter to L.
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Old 2009-06-15, 22:28   Link #111
ATiWolF
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Question

I'm Going To Be Terse And Just Say That I'm 100.5% Against 'Holo'...It just appears weird to my western eyes...its Unappealing.

<Subject Change>
Spoiler for zombie hoRo (Early Episode Interplay):

Last edited by ATiWolF; 2009-06-15 at 22:29. Reason: tags not supported in spoil title
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Old 2009-06-15, 23:51   Link #112
Vexx
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No spoilers needed.

Its a very very old bit of homeopathic magic ... you consume the vital organs of your enemy or prey to acquire their skills. The wolves view their situation with humans as a kind of arms race and the humans seem to be able to use their brains to win despite being dumb as rocks in other ways... soooooooo, at least at one point the wolves probably thought "eat the brains and we'll get smarter".

I've not seen that the story ever does more than imply that connection.
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Old 2009-06-16, 00:02   Link #113
ATiWolF
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
....despite being dumb as rocks....
ahaha-okay.
Homopatic magic, huh?
Interesting. I think I understand now. Thanks VexX.
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Old 2009-06-16, 05:23   Link #114
Riful
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The main argument for Holo is not that it's written in Katakana, but that it is the only romaji spelling used in Japan so far and therefore really seems to be her official name.

The only official place where "Horo" has been ever used is indeed Yen Press' homepage. On the other side Holo has been used everywhere, from the japanese anime homepage, to Kadokawa's English page, to the Japanese merchandise [ one, two, three, four, and many more] and finally now by Funimation. And I completely agree with LKK here, usually the licensor decides spellings or at least approves them, especially for the main characters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
<shrug> I probably would have conceded the debate because of the katakana counter-argument until I learned that all Ainu words are spelled using katakana.
so ... do we know that Holo's name is taken from an Ainu word? I don't think so. You can prove me wrong, but afaik it's only a theory some fan came up with. It's a nice one, but we have no idea how true it actually is, so it's not really an argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I haven't seen a published book using ー'lo' for ’ほろ’ (ホロ) in years (or any kana chart that translates the "r" row as "l").
err, that completely depends on the word. Japanese words normally will use R, but not always with names (like Risa/Lisa, Rina/Lina, Satoru/Satol).
For non-japanese words though both are completely equal, because there is no choice, since japanese doesn't make a difference.

Unless we know what the author was going for, there are many possibilites, many more even than Holo and Horo.

Quote:
Also, when the actors say "Chloe" (Kuroe) you can hear them shooting for an "L" sound.... whereas "Horo" dives directly for the "r".
I think you're imagining things, because that Japanese sound does have different possibilities of being pronounced depending on the person and some of them are closer to L than others.

But for the Japanese it's essentially the same sound and they never make a difference consciously. In fact, they cannot. Even if they try (for example when studying a foreign language), they have extreme difficulties, distinguishing and especially pronouncing L and R differently in a certain context and need at least some training. (Which is absolutely normal.)
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Last edited by Riful; 2009-06-16 at 05:58.
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Old 2009-06-16, 09:06   Link #115
FTGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riful View Post
The main argument for Holo is not that it's written in Katakana, but that it is the only romaji spelling used in Japan so far and therefore really seems to be her official name.

The only official place where "Horo" has been ever used is indeed Yen Press' homepage. On the other side Holo has been used everywhere, from the japanese anime homepage, to Kadokawa's English page, to the Japanese merchandise [ one, two, three, four, and many more] and finally now by Funimation.
0_0....we are screwed!

Nevertheless, I am against the official choice!

Holo <---- Reminds me of "Holodeck". That name may belong to Start Trek but not to a wolf deity.

Horo <---- That sounds like belonging to an growling Wolf. Grrrrrr.... Yes, thats it.
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Old 2009-06-16, 09:26   Link #116
ATiWolF
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Shall We Start A Petition Then?
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Old 2009-06-16, 09:48   Link #117
Riful
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yes, send a petition to Hasekura xD Not Holodeck, Holotan!

Quote:
Horo <---- That sounds like belonging to an growling Wolf. Grrrrrr.... Yes, thats it.
well, I guess ... but in japanese "hororo" as an animal voice seems to that of a monkey, so dunno about that oO;;
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Old 2009-06-16, 10:03   Link #118
GuidoHunter_Toki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTGT View Post
0_0....we are screwed!

Nevertheless, I am against the official choice!

Holo <---- Reminds me of "Holodeck". That name may belong to Start Trek but not to a wolf deity.
Well thats only if the Holo is pronounced as "hollow". Now I'm not keen on the pronounciation of the word so someone mind filling me in one whether the word is pronounced as "Hollow" or "Hoe-low".
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Old 2009-06-16, 10:12   Link #119
Riful
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Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki View Post
Well thats only if the Holo is pronounced as "hollow". Now I'm not keen on the pronounciation of the word so someone mind filling me in one whether the word is pronounced as "Hollow" or "Hoe-low".
Horo or Holo are pronouced exactly the same in Japanese, so ... listen to the japanese dub. ^^ We have no idea where her name comes from, so we don't know how it's supposed to be pronounced in any foreign language.

Concerning the english pronunciation ... there are many possibilites and I'm not sure how you pronouce "Hoe-low" XD

But for example, you can stick with the Japanese L/R-sound if you want, and you can chose whether you use the japanese "o" or an english one, two times the same or different ones ^^;; At least, the japanese "o" doesn't sound like "low" and Holo uses 2 times the same "o". "Hollow" is usually spelt differently in Katakana, with a short and a long "o".

But ugh, in the end, you just have to decide for yourself, the one you prefer ... and we'll see how the official dub will handle it.
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Old 2009-06-16, 10:21   Link #120
GuidoHunter_Toki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riful View Post
Horo or Holo are pronouced exactly the same in Japanese, so ... listen to the japanese dub. ^^ We have no idea where her name comes from, so we don't know how it's supposed to be pronounced in any foreign language.

Concerning the english pronunciation ... there are many possibilites and I'm not sure how you pronouce "Hoe-low" XD
Well "Hoe-Low" is pronounced exactly as I broke it up. The word "hoe" as in the gardening tool, and then "low" as in the english word pronounciation of the word "low".

Personally if it was pronounced as "Hoe-Low" I'd be perfectly okay with that, but "Hollow" (if said in the english pronounciation) I'd find strange.
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