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Old 2009-06-13, 05:40   Link #20061
bladeofdarkness
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kallen never actually KNEW euphie
to the outsiders eye euphie WAS a sheltered doll with no idea of how the real world works
she had good intentions, but its not like kallen knew about them
and even LELOUCH's reaction to the SAZ when he first heard euphie declare it was "if you think this would work, then you havent seen or heard ANYTHING"
lelouch only came to see the truth in what she was doing when he learned that she was willing to give up her own position and power to achive it

and whats wrong with hot and fiery passion
if anything, thats what suzaku NEEDS
someone who would force him to come out of his stupid shell of self imposed isolation by standing up to him rather then just accepting his wishes
sometimes what he WANTS and what he NEEDS are two completely different things (he did spend most of the show WANTING to DIE)
and considering that the entire WORLD thinks of him as zero, and there is a level of distance awarded by the mask
few people would be willing to stand up to him
but i can definitly see kallen being willing to do just that (since she knows who he is)
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Old 2009-06-13, 12:03   Link #20062
rave
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Not really. Kallen and Suzaku would never work, partly because they were both an important part of Lelouch's life, so it is rather difficult for Kallen to be with someone that knew that much the man she loved. Not to mention he did kill him. No matter the plan and so on.
Generally, Kallen and Suzaku have the same outlook but they are really different, in terms of "choosing" their lovers. Whatever though, it is all (baseless mostly) speculation, so yes, like Squall used to say ...whatever.
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Old 2009-06-13, 12:14   Link #20063
bladeofdarkness
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suzaku DID know lelouch best
but i dont see how THATS the problem with this script
suzaku is the only man on earth who is around kallen's age and knows that lelouch wasnt an evil basterd
dating someone who DID think lelouch was a monster would, i assume, be even HARDER for kallen
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Old 2009-06-15, 23:12   Link #20064
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Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven View Post
Its indeed possible. Still highly unlikely in my opinion. I can only really imagine them becoming close friends. Kind of hard for myself to see it as an great possibility given there were no romantic sparks flying(none at all) in any of their interactions during the entire series. Them becoming close can easily happen since its not like Suzaku can talk to many people either way.

She can forgive Suzaku for killing Lelouch(My personal bias is that, I can't see Kallen loving the man who killed Lelouch, sorry. Kallen wanted to live and die with Lelouch. Leaving behind her dreams and her own mother). They may have an few personal chats with one another(I assume they would in the future) Still doesn't mean she'll love him because of it. I have an hard buying it. However, I suppose its still an small possibility.

That's all I say on the matter. It would probably make an few good fanfics/doujinshi material.
There are two problems with the "He killed Lelouch!" rebuttal: Lelouch was the one who wanted to die and specifically requested Suzaku be the one to kill him, and Kallen already came to terms with what Lelouch did.
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Old 2009-06-15, 23:33   Link #20065
SonOfHeaven
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There are two problems with the "He killed Lelouch!" rebuttal: Lelouch was the one who wanted to die and specifically requested Suzaku be the one to kill him, and Kallen already came to terms with what Lelouch did.
I see that and all. I can understand that. However, like I mentioned before I just don't think it could happen at all. Until shown otherwise. Not like we have seen Kallen talk to Suzaku about it. She loved Lelouch not Suzaku. At the end of the day.

In my eyes, both Kallen and Suzaku becoming close friends could happen. Nothing beyond that(leave it to fanfics) personally.
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Old 2009-06-15, 23:37   Link #20066
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Funny, we're talking about personalities and the psychological aspects of it, but I really don't see it happening because of, you know, Suzaku's life-long Zero pledge
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Old 2009-06-15, 23:47   Link #20067
Kid Ying
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Son, i don't see Kallen getting with Suzaku in any possible way either, but i don't think Suzaku being the man who killed Lelouch got anything with this. I can't see Kallen being with another man at all, being Suzaku or anybody else. At the end of the series, i think she's even seeing Suzaku as a nice guy, she knows that Suzaku didn't wanted to do that and that he suffered more than anyone else in this mess, so, there's no hard feelings between them to stop a romance, i just don't see them getting there anyway. Not even because of their lives, since taking care of the whole world can't be easy(even if you have Schneisel to help you, you still got to appear in a lot of places and do a lot of stuff, that's hard), so Suzaku can't have a relationship with anyone, unless his girlfriend want to have a date for semester.

But beyond all of that, Suzaku is pretty happy with Euphemia in his heart and so do Kallen with her Lelouch, so i guess that's enough of them. I agree with you in the end, but not because Suzaku killed Lelouch, but because they're already happy as they are now and they don't need anything else.
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Old 2009-06-16, 00:14   Link #20068
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Funny, we're talking about personalities and the psychological aspects of it, but I really don't see it happening because of, you know, Suzaku's life-long Zero pledge
yes...
Suzaku is Zero forever....
he cant remove that helmet anymore.....(not if taking a bath)

correct me if im wrong but.....

as far as i know suzaku wont be having happiness anymore.... he is Zero forever and the name Suzaku is dead.... that was the geass given to him by Lelouch....
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Old 2009-06-16, 00:28   Link #20069
SonOfHeaven
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@Kid: I agree with both Kallen/Suzaku being pleased with their lost loved ones in their heart(Forgot to mention that before).

Kallen can accept and understand what Lelouch had planned. Doesn't mean she has to like it without an doubt. For all we know, Nunnally's reaction toward Lelouch at the end about just wanting to be with her brother. Could be the very same for Kallen(Wish we could have heard Kallen when she was screaming out when Suzaku was about to stab Lelouch). Once again, who knows maybe Kallen could be upset to her own self about falling for his act at the turn 22 scene. Especially given how her loyalty/devotion character traits are so grand.
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Old 2009-06-16, 00:55   Link #20070
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One of the few controversial subjects that split the Kalulu community. The way I see it if Kallen were to have a relationship post ZR (and I think she doesn't want nor need one) Suzaku is a good candidate for what its worth.

I see it like this Suzaku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than any other male on the show

And in turn Suzaku >>>>>>>>random dude.

I'm not even saying Suzaku and Kallen need to be in love. I could totally see a situation like the song "Two out of three ain't bad"

They have ties in Lelouch, the truth of ZR, lost loved ones, and they have respect for each other. Nothing has to grow from it but the soil is fertile enough under the right conditions of course.
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Old 2009-06-16, 01:02   Link #20071
Kid Ying
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It could happen, but if it were to happen... Well, i don't know, i would feel like it's not the right thing. Unless they were going to do something really nice(and by nice i mean a whole series just for the two of them to get together... With two seasons... And a ova where Lelouch resurrects and Kallen discover that it's Suzaku the one who she really loves), it would look like a cheap move, like "Hey, we lost our lovers" "Yeah, it sux" "..." "...." "So, do you wanna make out?" "yeah, sure." No, not for Kallen and Suzaku.
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Old 2009-06-16, 01:08   Link #20072
SonOfHeaven
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I agree with Suzaku>>random dude or any other character in the show. Since there is some base there compared to any other character within the show on an personal level.

Just for myself, like I always said before. I would have to see the romantic development regarding Kallen being with anyone else in an sequel(If it ever happened given Kallen's romantic development was only toward Lelouch and no one else.). To start believing otherwise.
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Old 2009-06-16, 01:10   Link #20073
yvj
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It could happen, but if it were to happen... Well, i don't know, i would feel like it's not the right thing. Unless they were going to do something really nice(and by nice i mean a whole series just for the two of them to get together... With two seasons... And a ova where Lelouch resurrects and Kallen discover that it's Suzaku the one who she really loves), it would look like a cheap move, like "Hey, we lost our lovers" "Yeah, it sux" "..." "...." "So, do you wanna make out?" "yeah, sure." No, not for Kallen and Suzaku.
Never said it would be simple. If it were to be a show it would have to be remarkably angsty. It would have to deal with issues like betrayal, sacrifice, punishment, regret and longing.

I don't see them hoping into bed together over Lelouch's grave or catching each others eye during an independence day celebration.

It would be difficult, just like it would be very difficult for them to find anyone else. I just find it slightly less difficult because at least they can understand each others pain.

Not many people can do that for Kallen.
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Old 2009-06-16, 04:11   Link #20074
paradox13
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kallen was such a hot character in part 1

too bad they fucked her up in r2
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Old 2009-06-16, 04:15   Link #20075
bladeofdarkness
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suzaku's "choices" if you will are VERY limited at this point
and since lelouch made him promise to give up his own happiness forever, he's not likely to be WILLING to start any relationship
he's more then likely to try and FOLLOW that promise

but he's also human at the end of the day
and he's stuck wearing that mask for the rest of his life (a mask who's wearer must carry the world of his shoulders)
when lelouch wore the mask he had a whole other life to support him (C.C, ashford, nunnaly)
suzaku has NONE of that, since he's not SUPPOSE to him anything other then his life as zero
and i cant really see him talking to NUNNALY about how hard it might be to do this
he killed her brother and this is his punishment, so i dont see him trying to talk to her about his trouble

thats where kallen has an edge, since she already KNOWS how heavy that mask is
and she knows that lelouch didnt have to do it alone
suzaku might not be ready to open up WILLINGLY, but if kallen confronts him about it, without just letting him wave it off as nothing, she could make him open up

she already did make him open up once before
she's the first person he ever willingly told about killing his father
and she got him to open up by NOT being willing to just accept his views but by confronting them, and forcing him to defend them

my main point is THIS
for all that suzaku wants to keep the promise to lelouch, he only has a few YEARS at best before he breaks
no one can carry that much on his shoulders for that long without help (lelouch didnt do it alone after all)
kallen is in a prime position to extend that help (as she is one of the very few people who know who suzaku IS)
what grows from there could be anything

P.S
completely disagreeing with paradox13
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Old 2009-06-16, 06:10   Link #20076
Kakashi
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Quote:
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kallen was such a hot character in part 1

too bad they fucked her up in r2
When I think about it R2 was pretty good for Kallen fans. You can tell her role shifted to that of the female lead/heroine type as she became more involved in Lelouch's life, got captured, became a damsel-in-distress etc. We also got to know what was going on inside her head more than other characters with the exception of Lelouch. That includes CC, who's characterization regressed and went full circle.

Towards the end it all deteriorated, not just Kallen, she suffered as a natural result. The last episode kind of salvaged her character and gave us some closure, it didn't do her justice, but ok.
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Old 2009-06-16, 06:56   Link #20077
Kid Ying
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Never said it would be simple. If it were to be a show it would have to be remarkably angsty. It would have to deal with issues like betrayal, sacrifice, punishment, regret and longing.
Wow, that was deep. My idea was a more trivial thing, like the usual stuff with romantic anime, a Kallenkano. Some happy moments, some sad moments, not with everything making you feel miserable, hehe.

Blade, about Nunna, well, i don't even know if he knows that she knows(that's a lot of knows), it wasn't like Lelouch explained to her and everyone saw it, maybe she's just supporting Suzaku from the shadows. I actually can see Suzaku talking about it. It would be hard, of course, but Nunnally would never be with him without understanding the whole thing, so i can see them talking about the whole thing someday.

Either way, Suzaku got Nunnally and Schneisel as lifeboats. I don't see him going for Kallen happening. In fact, for me, i don't see Suzaku having a hard time at all with this Zero thing. Okay, he sacrificed his own self to do this, but, he didn't needed to be Suzaku anymore, his closest ones(except for Nunnally and to a less extent, Kallen, Lloyd and Cecil) are dead, he doesn't have to go back to ashford or looking for something else with his life. At this point, he's already satisfied with what he got, besides, we all know that in the end, he got what he always wanted: Power to change things, so i don't think that the help he got right know isn't enough.

It would be nice to see Kallen and Suzaku working together and stuff, but i can't imagine Suzaku looking for it. That man got the eye of the tiger, i can't see him breaking his promise with Lelouch.
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Old 2009-06-16, 08:06   Link #20078
bladeofdarkness
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think about it like this
how much pressure do you think he would have to deal with every day
he IS pretty much responsible to rebuild the entire world after he and lelouch helped tear it down
britannia is a total mess with its entire goverment gone
the UFN is not much better

and suzaku is the KEY FIGURE in all this recreation
Schneisel is a TOOL that serves him
he can use him, but he cant turn to him for support
and the UFN was the product of zero's creation, which means that it would also require his help in rebuilding and forging peace with britannia
he has a LOT of work cut out for him

now imagine having to do all that without anyone he can relay on for support
anyone he can BITCH to about his day, or turn to for advice
or just someone who he can have a normal conversation with like a normal person
C.C said that the power of the king will isolate you
well suzaku is even MORE isolated then lelouch EVER was
i cant see him lasting for very long without emotional support
and i dont think nunnaly can be someone who would provide it for the simple reason that you stated
i dont see him turning to her for her help
there is no supporting from the shadows about this
the kind of support i'm talking about is emotional support, which has to be direct for him to be able to use it

i'm not saying that he would likely turn to kallen willingly
but i'm saying that kallen is more likely to FORCE him to let her help then nunnaly is
but again, its all speculation
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Old 2009-06-16, 13:38   Link #20079
SonOfHeaven
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Honestly, I don't even see Kallen going out her way to help Suzaku emotionally about being Zero about the burden(He accepted the role and seems ok with it). She has her own life to attend to than worrying about Suzaku(Which she never really did much of during the series). If Suzaku came to her for help, she'll more than likely tell him since he agreed with the role with Lelouch. He has to live with it.

I don't even think Suzaku needs any emotional help. If he does, Nunnally right there next to him. Nunnally being around him alot more often than Kallen.
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Old 2009-06-16, 15:13   Link #20080
Betteroffer
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It's a complicated situation all around. I think Suzaku needs to be Nunally's rock in all this, not the other way around, since she's as much of a global figurehead as he is now. The idea of your brother's murderer, who is your current bodyguard, coming to you for emotional support is just...awkward.

I think Kallen would be willing to help if asked, but I doubt Suzaku would ask. Part of his punishment is to bear the weight of the world's hope, so I belive the circumstances would need to be globally catastrophic before Suzaku would even try seeking Kallen out again, especially given how important he knows she was to Lelouch (whether you wish to regard that as romantic or platonic importance is for irrelevant).

Beyond that, Suzaku's is just as stubborn as Lelouch, so any sort of personal problems or issues would be bottled up. Still, this being anime we must resign ourselves to believeing that Suzaku will remain completely stable (or whatever we're calling him) unless Word of God says otherwise...

That being said, while Schneizel is a brain puppet, he's still a super-genius and Chessmaster, so I suppose Suzaku could have Schneizel console him somehow or offer therapy, even if Suzaku knew he was doing it mindlessly.

...And now I'm imagining a scene where Schneizel is holding Zerozaku curled up like a baby as the latter sucks his thumb through the mask (a modified slide-system would be installed to allow this).

Schneizel: You're doing a good job sir. A very good job indeed.

Zerozaku: Have you forgotten who you're talking too?

Schneizel: My apologies. You're a bad, bad, naughty, evil man. You failed to protect those you love, killed millions due to your own stubborness, mistrusted your closest friend, and drove him into a downward spiral of insanity that culminated in his self-orchestrated suicide.

Zerozaku: Aaaaaahhhhh, that's better.

Schneizel: ...And I am very uncomfortable with you trying to nurse right now...
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