AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-06-16, 01:04   Link #1161
vedicardi
Well I FEEL normal..
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
This seems very extreme and rare. I don't think things like this are near as prevalent as the video might want you to believe.
vedicardi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-16, 01:55   Link #1162
qwertyuiopz
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
koreans do it a lot more
qwertyuiopz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-16, 12:28   Link #1163
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by vedicardi View Post
This seems very extreme and rare. I don't think things like this are near as prevalent as the video might want you to believe.
Well, then, I must have amazing luck since every single female from Japan I've ever encountered just naturally tends to cover their mouth when giggling or chuckling. (and no, I've met more than I can remember to count). Nothing like watching an entire class of high school girls do it simultaneously when I do something goofy.

The video does take it a bit over-the-top though...
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-16, 13:47   Link #1164
bhl88
Otaku Apprentice
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Unseen Horizon
Send a message via MSN to bhl88 Send a message via Yahoo to bhl88
I wonder where the weirdness of Japan came from XD

I was thinking maybe 'cause they are so tight with those 'black sheep' or something like that.
__________________

Dang it Avalon, you c(XD LOL)-block Shirou and Reinforce, but don't protect his mind in other ways? What is wrong, you woman?
Friendship, be made! Magical power, gather! Starlight Breaker.... this world!
bhl88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-16, 15:38   Link #1165
Mushi
Hopeless Dreamer
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On bended knee asking Belldandy to marry me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Nothing like watching an entire class of high school girls do it simultaneously when I do something goofy.
Kawaii desu.

Quote:
The video does take it a bit over-the-top though...
I think the video was trying to throw a bit of a satirical spin on the whole thing.
__________________
Mushi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-16, 20:56   Link #1166
Claies
Good-Natured Asshole.
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Well, then, I must have amazing luck since every single female from Japan I've ever encountered just naturally tends to cover their mouth when giggling or chuckling. (and no, I've met more than I can remember to count). Nothing like watching an entire class of high school girls do it simultaneously when I do something goofy.

The video does take it a bit over-the-top though...
Were you a teacher or were there a horde of them on the street? o.o
Claies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-16, 21:14   Link #1167
Guernsey
The GAP Man
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to Guernsey Send a message via MSN to Guernsey Send a message via Yahoo to Guernsey
Is Japanese humor fast paced? I heard that something called the Boke and Tsukkiomi (forgive if this is a misspelling) similar to the straight man and funnny man but is as fast paced as they make it sound on some shows and most live performances? Can anyone elaborate for me?
__________________
Guernsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-16, 23:01   Link #1168
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claies View Post
Were you a teacher or were there a horde of them on the street? o.o
Volunteer parent chaperone. They were a visiting class from Japan.
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-17, 00:36   Link #1169
Claies
Good-Natured Asshole.
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Volunteer parent chaperone. They were a visiting class from Japan.
Oh, so both. Wonderful.
Claies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-19, 19:59   Link #1170
KholdStare
ISML Technical Staff
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to KholdStare Send a message via MSN to KholdStare
A lot of times I hear how Japanese people are overworked and could spend little time with their family, but I kind of brushed that aside. This story here is a good firsthand example and gave me great insight on the corporate world of Japan.

http://www.newint.org/issue231/quit.htm

PS: I hope someone had not already posted this.
KholdStare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-19, 20:13   Link #1171
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
Is Japanese humor fast paced? I heard that something called the Boke and Tsukkiomi (forgive if this is a misspelling) similar to the straight man and funnny man but is as fast paced as they make it sound on some shows and most live performances? Can anyone elaborate for me?
If you've ever seen an Abbott&Costello routine (like "Who's on First"), you have a good approximation of the whole concept.

It is often fast-paced... but they also make great use of pauses ("wait for it...") and facial expressions including "break 4th wall" type of glances at the audience.

Google on All-Hanshin Kyojin (http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/list_from_c...1028&media=DVD).

The comedy style is called "manzai" (you can google up youtube examples).
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-19, 21:11   Link #1172
Mushi
Hopeless Dreamer
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On bended knee asking Belldandy to marry me
Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
A lot of times I hear how Japanese people are overworked and could spend little time with their family, but I kind of brushed that aside. This story here is a good firsthand example and gave me great insight on the corporate world of Japan.

http://www.newint.org/issue231/quit.htm
I admire the author for making the choice that he did. I bet that was a scary thing to do, but it obviously removed a tremendous burden. I sure couldn't live like that. Having all of those conveniences that the company offers sounds very modern and efficient, but damn, that's creepy having to spend nearly every hour of your life on company property.
__________________
Mushi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-19, 21:50   Link #1173
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushi View Post
I admire the author for making the choice that he did. I bet that was a scary thing to do, but it obviously removed a tremendous burden. I sure couldn't live like that. Having all of those conveniences that the company offers sounds very modern and efficient, but damn, that's creepy having to spend nearly every hour of your life on company property.
And they wonder why the japanese birth rate is plummeting when the ever-increasing corporate demands on its serfs prevent them from even finding someone to procreate with....
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-19, 22:52   Link #1174
KholdStare
ISML Technical Staff
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to KholdStare Send a message via MSN to KholdStare
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushi View Post
I admire the author for making the choice that he did. I bet that was a scary thing to do, but it obviously removed a tremendous burden. I sure couldn't live like that. Having all of those conveniences that the company offers sounds very modern and efficient, but damn, that's creepy having to spend nearly every hour of your life on company property.
I admire him too...and he probably needs more admiration than that. We Americans (etc...) might think that it's obviously he needed to quit that job, but I bet that to the average Japanese, that decision might be as hard as selling your house or something to that extent.
KholdStare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-19, 23:29   Link #1175
Mushi
Hopeless Dreamer
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On bended knee asking Belldandy to marry me
I was curious and did a search for "the nail that stands out" and found an interesting discussion from 2005 on a forum.

A sample:

Quote:
No one wants to be different here.

For example - my schools, like any other school in Japan, has sports clubs. These clubs run for two hours after school, and most teachers have a club they are responsible for. ...They may not go everyday (the kids are kind of self-dependent) but they certainly couldn't leave school until the club was finished. The clubs run on Saturdays, and sometimes Sundays as well. AND during summer vacation. I'd say the sports clubs alone makes school at least 30% harder than it should be.

NO ONE wants to do sports clubs everyday. The students get tired, and the teachers probably have better ways to spend their time. Talk to a student/teacher privately, and they will admit this.

But NO ONE will stand up and say "Y'know what? Sports clubs everyday sucks. Let's only do it three times a week." If someone did, every other teacher would beat him/her down, even though they agreed. Why? We can't possibly be, *gasp* different from everyone else! Even if the school did something radical and did change that, then the parents would end up complaining, even if they probably deep down agreed as well. And God forbid the PTA become angered.

So then the result is that everybody does sports clubs everyday, even though nobody likes it.

Resistance is futile.
The OP in that thread is pointing out the notion that Japanese people expect change to be something that happens on it's own and there's no point in pushing for it. I think there's a lot of benefit in having social norms, but that kind of conformist conditioning sounds stifling. Of course, if that's all you know... how would you know?
__________________
Mushi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-28, 01:54   Link #1176
ZephyrLeanne
On a sabbatical
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wellington, NZ
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushi View Post
I was curious and did a search for "the nail that stands out" and found an interesting discussion from 2005 on a forum.

A sample:



The OP in that thread is pointing out the notion that Japanese people expect change to be something that happens on it's own and there's no point in pushing for it. I think there's a lot of benefit in having social norms, but that kind of conformist conditioning sounds stifling. Of course, if that's all you know... how would you know?
Talking about that. Actually, it's more of a Confucian thing than anything else. Not really Japanese. You can also see it very often in Korea and to a lesser extent, Singapore. In fact PRC banished Confucian thought simply because it created, in a way, herd mentality. It's quite odd I know, but it's true. Confucius, thanks for ruining our private lives.
__________________
ZephyrLeanne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-28, 10:25   Link #1177
Yu Ominae
ARCAM Spriggan agent
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada/Quezon City, Philippines
Send a message via Yahoo to Yu Ominae
That's not right. I read about Confucius and I thought he's cool...
__________________

Even if we were at odds with each other, I still thank you for training me, Instructor Bowman - Yu Ominae, reflecting on Bowman's death after killing him in Phantom Island
Yu Ominae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-28, 20:41   Link #1178
Samari
World's Greatest
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Francisco
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
A lot of times I hear how Japanese people are overworked and could spend little time with their family, but I kind of brushed that aside. This story here is a good firsthand example and gave me great insight on the corporate world of Japan.

http://www.newint.org/issue231/quit.htm

PS: I hope someone had not already posted this.
That was a good story. I'm glad to hear that he left. Those working conditions were ridiculous. Thanks for the read.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
永遠不要失去信心,你的命運。
Samari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-28, 21:59   Link #1179
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimatheKat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushi View Post
I was curious and did a search for "the nail that stands out" and found an interesting discussion from 2005 on a forum.

The OP in that thread is pointing out the notion that Japanese people expect change to be something that happens on it's own and there's no point in pushing for it. I think there's a lot of benefit in having social norms, but that kind of conformist conditioning sounds stifling. Of course, if that's all you know... how would you know?
Talking about that. Actually, it's more of a Confucian thing than anything else. Not really Japanese. You can also see it very often in Korea and to a lesser extent, Singapore. In fact PRC banished Confucian thought simply because it created, in a way, herd mentality. It's quite odd I know, but it's true. Confucius, thanks for ruining our private lives.
Talking about Confucianism in this context is a bit like discussing Communism: Not many people truly understand how the original idea was meant to be applied.

Yes, it's true that Confucius discussed at length how harmony can be achieved by conforming with a well-defined social hierarchy, wherein the ruler obeys divine will just as the peasants obeyed their sovereign, all in accordance with the Way. But that works only on the assumption that the ruler loves and cares for his own followers as he would for his children. In other words, according to Confucius, a just ruler leads for the sake of his people and not his own.

It's important to also understand the historical context in which Confucius came up with his ideas. China during the Spring and Autum Period (春秋時代) was still a feudal society — the concept of a single "high king", an Emperor, had not been invented yet. It was a time of great social hardship as barons and princes engaged in petty warfare and politicking. So, it's not hard to imagine why Chinese philosophers during this period were so obssessed with finding a way to restore harmony. To Confucius, chaos arises when people seek to disrupt the natural order of the world, hence the need for strong government to ensure that peace is maintained.

The harmony that Confucius sought, which translates into the conformity that we see in East Asian societies like Japan, Korea and China today, was originally meant for the benefit of the people, and not their ruler. On hindsight, one could say that Confucius had been naive about the ability of a monarch to rise above his selfish nature. But in this sense, Confucius was no different from Plato:

"In Plato's view, the optimum level of well-being (eudaimonia) among humans cannot result from individuals acting on their own. On the contrary, it requires that everything be centrally organised by people who possess a form of expert knowledge that explains both the correct conception of well-being and the kind of organising that will optimise that well-being collectively."

The Concept of Political Science (politikę) in Plato and Aristotle, Paul Bullen


Confucius, like Plato, had not intended such a society to be an oppressive one that forces people to live in lock-step with the needs of the sovereign. Moreover, like Plato, Confucius expected political leaders to behave like "philosopher kings", enlightened monarchs who would study the example of their classical ancestors in order to rule virtuously. Like Plato, Confucius placed great value on wisdom and knowledge, and he believed strongly in the need for education to bring about good government.

In turn, the subjects are supposed to support enlightened leadership by striving to excel in their respective stations in life. This was part of what Confucius meant by following the "Way". Unfortunately, over the years, his political philosophy has become a tool for controlling individual aspirations for the sake of the "greater good" — it has become the perversion of an ideal.

With regard to the Japanese, I think their ability to conform is considered part of their national virtue of gaman — to "endure". It's a peculiar form of stoicism that can manifest as great courage and nobility in some situations, or appear like abject slavery in other contexts. Therefore, when looking at Japanese society as outsiders unfamiliar with the Japanese way of life, it's important not to pass judgment without first understanding the roots and contexts that created it.
TinyRedLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-29, 07:20   Link #1180
ZephyrLeanne
On a sabbatical
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wellington, NZ
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Talking about Confucianism in this context is a bit like discussing Communism: Not many people truly understand how the original idea was meant to be applied.
Whatever the case, this is the outcome. You know, who cares if Hitler had good intentions (to get rid of the X to save the German economy...) his ways were evil, and the results are there to see. Same here. The "gaman" concept may hold water. But nevertheless, I think the phrase to use here is "Shikata ga nai" - nothing can be done about it. It's part of the culture, there's not much you can do about it.

(And I never thought of Japanese as Stoics. )

In any case, remember that Confucianism taught that subordination at all costs is a virtue. This was duly imported and applied by the government of Japan at the equivalent time (Yamato Period), and thus has some role in leading up to what it is today.
__________________
ZephyrLeanne is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
culture, discussion, japan, japanese culture

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.