K-On! - Episode 12 [FINALE] Discussion / Poll

[npal]

Well, I didn't like the emo-drama part, for example, and I couldn't enjoy those eps as much as the rest because my expectations were set on the moe. Kyoani themselves were swinging back and forth in the same episode. But in the end, despite the unneeded drama, it was kinda fun to watch, when your expectations aren't going through the ceiling. I mean, I survived the emo-drama bit inside a moe series, I'm not sure why people can't survive the non-music essence of it. It's not like K-ON was a grand masterpiece, but despite the flaws, you can still watch it when you can comprehend it was a moe series. I didn't feel it was trying hard to be something else, so, while the drama parts annoyed me because they just couldn't fit in, overall the series wasn't a letdown for me.

[gigaloki]

really cool! really good!! do you think there will be second season? i hope so

[Tamad]

Originally Posted by CaptGloval

Is Sawako really that good? She filled in at the last minute and managed to sound fine. I find that her time in the music room was primarily for tea, but perhaps listening to the band practice was more than enough for her to figure out the songs.

Well I figured she was quite the guitar goddess back in her day too, this was probably nothing but a walk in the park to her.

Originally Posted by TheBigN

Is it wrong of me to say that I didn't really mind the lack of actually seeing the band perform? :P

To each their own. We were all expecting different things out of this anime from the very beginning anyways.

Originally Posted by npal

Not really, that's just people's misconception that it was supposed to be a music anime.

After watching the trailer once again, all I have to say is sorry for believing what I saw?

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Well, even people who saw Haruhi may not have expected that. I did expect some music scenes (which we got), but the emphasis of the early episodes was definitely not on the music -- it was on the girls themselves. But all in all, I agree -- we knew it was a slice-of-life 4-koma being adapted by the Lucky Star team, so I figured it wouldn't be terribly plot-heavy. Maybe it's just about doing a bit of research on the source material?

Originally Posted by fallschirmjager

Music was always just going to be the medium they used for the character interactions. You only needed to have looked at the source material to realize this from the start.

<3 Yui.

Originally Posted by Sheba

Apparently taking 10 mins to read 4komas to know what to expect is too much time already.

*sigh*

I fully admit that I went into the first episode of K-ON knowing only what I saw from the PV mentioned above and that it was a Kyoani anime. To be fair though, I rarely to never read the source material of an anime before getting into the anime (it's usually the latter). The reason why I do so is because if you read the manga, you're going to expect things from the anime, and that in turns makes your opinion on the anime biased by "not living up to the manga" to a certain degree. So if I had read the manga before the anime, would I have know what to expect coming into the anime? Yes. Would I have still picked it up and watched it? Yes. Would my opinion on the anime as a stand alone figure have changed? Most likely not, because regardless of what came first, I still would have been quite unimpressed by the series in general...

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by npal

It's like watching Suzuka for sports O_o.

You know, that is actually a very good analogy, now that you mention it. In Suzuka, sports (track) is the excuse that brings the cast together, but the genre is shounen romantic comedy/drama. In K-On!, music is the excuse that brings the cast together, but the genre is moe/slice-of-life.

Originally Posted by npal

I still think that any source material is irrelevant. When you adapt something, you have to make it so that the source material is non needed and that the medium is purely self-contained. Anything else is a failure of adaptation.

K-ON did NOT need the 4koma though. I'm not sure where people got their expectations from but I bet it basically falls into one of these reasons: Kyoani, Kyoani, Haruhi, Kyoani, Haruhi. Oh, and the overhype because of those reasons.

Well, I will say that for myself, I never actually read the manga, but I did read enough about the show to know what the source material was, what the genre was, that it was most similar to Lucky Star than some of the other KyoAni works, and so on. Basically I guess the stuff you would read on blogs and the like. I agree that you don't need to experience the original to enjoy an adaptation (although sometimes you have a different experience when you do experience both).

Originally Posted by Reckoner

they attempted twice in the series to go to what many others expected, only to fall back on the moe afterwards. It was a haphazard attempt at trying to accomplish both (And this series could have easily been adapted to accomplish both goals) and the proof for me was the last couple of episodes (Specifically Yui's running scene).

I guess I just don't really see how it was really trying to accomplish two different goals, or how it switched focuses all that much. Like, I suppose you could think of Episode 8 as a focus on the musical aspect of the show, or you could see it as "we need a way to introduce a new character into the club". I guess you could say that they brought the background to the foreground a little bit when it served the show's purposes, sort of like giving an instrument a solo. I think it's all just sort of "part of the mix".

[Bikerider]

where did that Ralph Bakshi style drawing come from for when Mio and Yui were singing in profile. Woah, that is not expected.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Tamad

<snip>

After watching the trailer once again, all I have to say is sorry for believing what I saw?


*sigh*

I fully admit that I went into the first episode of K-ON knowing only what I saw from the PV mentioned above and that it was a Kyoani anime. To be fair though, I rarely to never read the source material of an anime before getting into the anime (it's usually the latter). The reason why I do so is because if you read the manga, you're going to expect things from the anime, and that in turns makes your opinion on the anime biased by "not living up to the manga" to a certain degree. So if I had read the manga before the anime, would I have know what to expect coming into the anime? Yes. Would I have still picked it up and watched it? Yes. Would my opinion on the anime as a stand alone figure have changed? Most likely not, because regardless of what came first, I still would have been quite unimpressed by the series in general...

But the trailer only showed the girls in a music classroom with barely any instrument playing or a concert scene. In a way, it did give you a preview of what to expect.

Now this is an example of what a music anime PV looks like. This is an example of what a music anime OP looks like.

It's pretty clear what's to expect when you have examples to fall back on without knowledge of the manga.

[yezhanquan]

On the subject of Nana (which I do read/watch as well), the drama very much outweigh the music. "Blast" and "Trapnest" are pro groups, but we get to see far more of what happens behind the scenes, away from the eyes of the fans.

[aldw]

If anyone had to substitute for Yui temporarily, better it be Ui than Sensei IMHO...

[orion]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

On the subject of Nana (which I do read/watch as well), the drama very much outweigh the music. "Blast" and "Trapnest" are pro groups, but we get to see far more of what happens behind the scenes, away from the eyes of the fans.

And NANA had concert scenes up in your face in the OP. Drama might have outweighed the music but it's also considered a music anime.

Drama was also a major component of Beck for whose standards are being applied to K-On! by the way.

[Kouvley]

Decent ending to a decent series overall.

Perhaps it may have fared better for some if it had a disclaimer at the beginning of each episode advising them not to expect too much from a slice of life show a la Minami-ke season 1.

[Tamad]

Originally Posted by orion

But the trailer only showed the girls in a music classroom with barely any instrument playing or a concert scene. In a way, it did give you a preview of what to expect.

Now this is an example of what a music anime PV looks like. This is an example of what a music anime OP looks like.

It's pretty clear what's to expect when you have examples to fall back on without knowledge of the manga.

Now trying to compare BECK to K-ON! is just silly. Are you saying it's unreasonable to think music wouldn't be involved at all after watching the trailer? I sure as hell didn't think "hey this anime looks like a fun little slice of life comedy but music looks like it'll definetely be an afterthought.

[miroku2192]

i frigging lol'd my ass off at the mugi - pickled radish eyebrows...frigging hilarious

[yezhanquan]

I was somewhat prepared by Hidamari Sketch, which runs in the same magazine. You have 4 (later 5) girls in an arts school; how many times do discussions on art appear so far? Not too many. Same with K-On.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Kouvley

Decent ending to a decent series overall.

Perhaps it may have fared better for some if it had a disclaimer at the beginning of each episode advising them not to expect too much from a slice of life show a la Minami-ke season 1.

Why should anyone have to constantly lower their standards and expectations in order to enjoy a show? I'm still not getting this argument that seems to imply that because it's slice of life that it somehow makes everything disappointing about this series okay.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Oh, I'm not doubting that. I didn't cling on to false hope. I adjusted my expectations, but as Kaoshin pointed out, they attempted twice in the series to go to what many others expected, only to fall back on the moe afterwards. It was a haphazard attempt at trying to accomplish both (And this series could have easily been adapted to accomplish both goals) and the proof for me was the last couple of episodes (Specifically Yui's running scene). It just comes off as being a poor effort, and I will criticize it for this.

Precisely. It's not that a series can't juggle something like this and make it work, and there were times when I though K-On was going to pull it off (episode 08 specifically) but obviously I don't think they did. The balance just wasn't right and there was too much on the moe side of the scale.

Originally Posted by Sheba

Apparently taking 10 mins to read 4komas to know what to expect is too much time already.

I've already said my piece on why I think this is unnecessary elsewhere so I'm just going to copy/paste it in:

Please stop telling me that I need to read the source material for an adapation to truly appreciate a given show. If the show has something to prove I’m sure it can do it on it’s own without the help of its source work. After all that’s the point of an adaptation, to transfer the content from one medium to another in a manner that makes the media content itself workable within that new context, be it a movie, a TV show, an audio drama, a game, or whatever. If I need to know the source material before watching something then something has obviously gone wrong in this adaptation process.

Originally Posted by npal

I think it should have been obvious after 3-4 eps that they weren't going to perform that much or that music wasn't the real focus. If people couldn't see what's in front of their eyes (ONE performance in the middle of the series and no more than hinting about music, bands, theory, etc etc), I don't really see how's KyoAni's problem. Clinging to hope in a 12episode series when you've seen half... well, it's just clinging to hope... It's like watching Suzuka for sports O_o.

I did pick up on that about halfway through the 4th episode and have been following the show for what it showed me it is since then. If I have to be honest I think the people that were still complaining about the series not being all about music afterward were deluding themselves and didn't present a convincing case in criticizing the series for that. However, and I cannot continue to stress this enough and also continue to hope people will finally just get it, I felt the series fell short in capturing my imagination and long term interest even considering what it was in a moe-driven slice of life comedy. What people don't seem to get is that I AM basing my impressions on what the show is presenting me with, be it 4Koma style gags, moe, or attempted feel good atmosphere and let me just say that as the show went on it continued to feel rehashed and uninspired and most attempts to give a given scene an atmosphere often felt forced. There's only so many times some of us can see Mio cowering in a corner after some potentially embarassing (for her) or startling Ritsu does in her presence before you start to yawn a little. There's only so many times you can see Azusa put on those cat ears before it stops seeming cute and ends up just feeling patronizing. There's only so many times they can point out that Yui and Ui are an "odd couple" and yet still manage to get along as sisters......

By the way, this isn't addressed to you but rather the board in general and I am simply touching on some points you made.

[Child_of_Sierra]

Or one can use more suitable standards, like rating a comedy show for its comedy parts instead of commenting how it fails for not being more of an action flick. (in this case a music flick)

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra

Or one can use more suitable standards, like rating a comedy show for its comedy parts instead of commenting how it fails for not being more of an action flick. (in this case a music flick)

Look... this is getting a bit obnoxious. Many people assumed since it was a series about a girl band... it might have a fair amount of music in it. Anime about characters involved in sports tend to have ... a fair amount of sports in them -- even if they're really a romance (e.g. Suzuka).

K-On! *could* have done something like, say Lucky*Star - depart completely from the source and have the end of each episode be a music video. It didn't do that... so people who were hoping were a bit disappointed. When it *did* do music - it was exciting. Please stop implying people who expected some music were stupid.

[Lvrhina]

mugi's cosplay made the episode.... finally finally happy that they actually played a concert that you can see not some bad "music video" like from the one prior

[Child_of_Sierra]

Aye, assuming it for being a more music oriented show was a mistake I made in the beginning as well but after a certain point in the show (4eps? 6eps? episode 10?) you realize that the show aimed for the moe/slice-of-life part more and never had any real ambition to sell itself for being a musical show.

Yet we still get people that rate the show for being too much about the girls than about the girls playing music when that was never the intent.

You can't get a more simple and linear plot than K-On! but people still get this confused about the show attempting to be something it is not

@Vexx
I don't think they are stupid but they are certainly barking up the wrong tree.

[Mr Bland]

Yes, the three Mugi outfits made it worth it, but other than that, it wasn't especially great. I hate to say that, but I somehow felt empty at the end of the episode... Well hopefully the special will fix that.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra

Aye, assuming it for being a more music oriented show was a mistake I made in the beginning as well but after a certain point in the show (4eps? 6eps? episode 10?) you realize that the show aimed for the moe/slice-of-life part more and never had any real ambition to sell itself for being a musical show.

Yet we still get people that rate the show for being too much about the girls than about the girls playing music when that was never the intent.

You can't get a more simple and linear plot than K-On! but people still get this confused about the show attempting to be something it is not

Everyone rates a series using their own metrics. Those metrics tend to follow a bell curve with extremes at each end. Frankly, there isn't anything intrinsically wrong about rating K-On! using the value weights one considers important and not exactly matching someone else's weighted values. comedy, moe, music, slice-of-life are all valid ways to assess this series whatever "the intent" of the producers. Using "tragedy" might be considered an outlier.

Another way to put it is that everyone brings their own baggage of what is important to them to a series and that will affect their enjoyment. Comparing metrics or "baggage" is useful for getting an idea of how well-rounded your own metrics are. Shooting at everyone whose metrics don't exactly match your own isn't very useful.