AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > One Piece

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-06-22, 18:07   Link #161
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
^Hm, I am not sure if Whitebeard's fall would be a blow to piracy. Specifically, he has been keeping many proplr in check, stopping them from advancing, or otherwise becoming more ruthless than they need to be (evidience of this is found in Whitebeard's desire to "protect"/own several islands). So, if Whitebeard fell, it is entirely possible that there might be a second pirate revolution, only with the pirates acting more like DoFlamingo (merciless and only in it for money and power) rather than acting like Roger (adventurous, strong willed, and willing to fight for nakama).

To put it another way, it could be said that Whitebeard is holding back the "bad" pirates (those "silver medalist" found on Level 6), and with his downfall, chaos will reign (for a time) across the Grand Line.

Suffice to say, no matter what happens, I do not see the Marines coming out of this smelling fresh. With the destruction of Enies Lobby, the current destruction of Impel Down, and the possible destruction of Marineford, the marines power as a fighting force is being gambled all on this encounter with Whitebeard. I wouldn't be surprised if the world post-Whitebeard is controlled via Pacifistas and other similar guards, rather than the marines and Shichibukai.
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-22, 21:03   Link #162
cloak_and_dagger
Hei aka Li Xiansheng
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kasumigaseki; where contractors dwell.
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by holypanl View Post
P

But honestly, defeating Whitebeard alone, in the face of all these powerful, rapidly blooming Supernovas, and the Revolutionaries, and everything, should not be a be-all-end-all solution for the World Govt.'s problems.
It'd at least put some serious fear in the hearts of all pirates (except the big boys).
Hearing of Whitebeard's defeat would probably keep a lot of rogue pirates in check.

....Or..it could cause a massive pirate riot, and control could spiral away.

Meh, could go either way.
__________________
cloak_and_dagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-23, 11:05   Link #163
Fipskuul
τηε πιγητ ωατςη
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: τη λαnδ of веагз αnδ дг
Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
To put it another way, it could be said that Whitebeard is holding back the "bad" pirates (those "silver medalist" found on Level 6), and with his downfall, chaos will reign (for a time) across the Grand Line.
Bad pirates? Roger has fought against Whitebeard before (regardless of who started the fight). The deadly nature of the fight suggests it is not a tournament kind of friendly thing either. Unfortunately, for Whitebeard, he didn't seem to have won against Roger. But there are many whom he won against, so-called silver medalists. Just like Roger was not evil, there may be many who would feel the same way.

And I don't really consider them as evil even if they do not care about his influence in the sea, and this protecting the innocent civilians. They are pirates, and they always try to be better, stronger, richer, etc. This is like saying if Mihawk would be protecting the civilians (which is something he should be doing as a Shicihbukai by getting rid of stupid rotten pirates), then Zoro's challenge of him to drop him of power, regardless of the consequences (such as death), would have brought him an evil status.

And I am sure Whitebeard is not a purely innocent pirate either. I am not sure about the following statement, but in my opinion, if he would be, I am sure Oda would have already made him the second Pirate King.
__________________
Fipskuul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-23, 11:53   Link #164
andy
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
seem like some spoilers out . NNNNOOOO at Mr.2
andy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-23, 12:09   Link #165
cheukkw
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Mr. 2 is the true man
cheukkw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-23, 14:07   Link #166
kakakka
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Quote:
Given how incompetent the World Goverment is than I see no reason why Whitebeard, and Luffy can't handle them.
I'm more thinking when it comes to strength, for example the power of the admirals, their subordinates etc. But you have some point. At times in the series, this is one of their weakness.
kakakka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-24, 10:35   Link #167
Red-Haired_Shanks
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
Bad pirates? Roger has fought against Whitebeard before (regardless of who started the fight). The deadly nature of the fight suggests it is not a tournament kind of friendly thing either. Unfortunately, for Whitebeard, he didn't seem to have won against Roger. But there are many whom he won against, so-called silver medalists. Just like Roger was not evil, there may be many who would feel the same way.

And I don't really consider them as evil even if they do not care about his influence in the sea, and this protecting the innocent civilians. They are pirates, and they always try to be better, stronger, richer, etc. This is like saying if Mihawk would be protecting the civilians (which is something he should be doing as a Shicihbukai by getting rid of stupid rotten pirates), then Zoro's challenge of him to drop him of power, regardless of the consequences (such as death), would have brought him an evil status.

And I am sure Whitebeard is not a purely innocent pirate either. I am not sure about the following statement, but in my opinion, if he would be, I am sure Oda would have already made him the second Pirate King.
Roger never won against Whitebeard
Red-Haired_Shanks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-24, 11:37   Link #168
Fipskuul
τηε πιγητ ωατςη
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: τη λαnδ of веагз αnδ дг
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-Haired_Shanks View Post
Roger never won against Whitebeard
It doesn't matter, because Whitebeard never won either. And, the one to be called as the Pirate King was none other than Roger. And if you consider their fights to be more like fights for Whitebeard to take over Roger, the result can be considered as nothing but a failure. Maybe that is one of the reasons why the pirate king seat is still empty, despite Roger's absence. Whitebeard can be the strongest man alive right now, but I will find it hard to believe that he has ever become a man of Roger's stature.
__________________
Fipskuul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-24, 12:30   Link #169
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
Bad pirates? Roger has fought against Whitebeard before (regardless of who started the fight). The deadly nature of the fight suggests it is not a tournament kind of friendly thing either. Unfortunately, for Whitebeard, he didn't seem to have won against Roger. But there are many whom he won against, so-called silver medalists. Just like Roger was not evil, there may be many who would feel the same way.

And I don't really consider them as evil even if they do not care about his influence in the sea, and this protecting the innocent civilians. They are pirates, and they always try to be better, stronger, richer, etc. This is like saying if Mihawk would be protecting the civilians (which is something he should be doing as a Shicihbukai by getting rid of stupid rotten pirates), then Zoro's challenge of him to drop him of power, regardless of the consequences (such as death), would have brought him an evil status.

And I am sure Whitebeard is not a purely innocent pirate either. I am not sure about the following statement, but in my opinion, if he would be, I am sure Oda would have already made him the second Pirate King.
...I really have no idea what you are talking about. I said that Whitebeard potentially keeps pirates like DoFlamingo at bay (by being the strongest and "owning"/controlling one of the main islands that allows pirates into the New World), and if Whitebeard should fall, there may be a surge in piracy similar to DoFlamingo (slavery, greed, and all around pure villainy) - hence the chaos I mentioned. Never once did I question the "innocence" of any pirate, nor did I bring up the concept of evil. And I never even came close to mentioning Roger.
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-24, 12:52   Link #170
Fipskuul
τηε πιγητ ωατςη
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: τη λαnδ of веагз αnδ дг
Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
...I really have no idea what you are talking about. I said that Whitebeard potentially keeps pirates like DoFlamingo at bay (by being the strongest and "owning"/controlling one of the main islands that allows pirates into the New World), and if Whitebeard should fall, there may be a surge in piracy similar to DoFlamingo (slavery, greed, and all around pure villainy) - hence the chaos I mentioned. Never once did I question the "innocence" of any pirate, nor did I bring up the concept of evil. And I never even came close to mentioning Roger.
I believe you were referring to those who had lost to Whitebeard as potential criminals like Doflamingo, even though you have forgotten to add that fighting and losing against Whitebeard should not be a matter of goodness or evil in a pirate. That is where the Roger example came, just because he fought against Whitebeard should not be used as a measure of how he was.

Secondly, what Doflamingo is doing is supported by the World Government. So, even though it may be considered as a crime from a normal point of view, it is not. Hence, that special case cannot be used on what the pirating may become if Whitebeard were to lose. If there is one Doflamingo, there are many more of the opposite as strong.

You are focusing on a single aspect ignoring all the other variables around. What happened many years ago on the mermen island may not need to happen in the future had Whitebeard fell from power. There is an ever growing Dragon and his revolutionary army, which may force the WG to change as well, making their sole focus on the bad pirates not the good ones. The times are changing. What happened in the past does not have recreate itself making people look for a pirate like Whitebeard to protect themselves.
__________________
Fipskuul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-24, 13:25   Link #171
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
^Once again, I am not talking about good or evil, I am not talking about criminal or inoccent, etc. I am talking about chaos. Whitebeard, by controlling the shipping lanes to and from the New World, actively controlled which pirates could go to the New World. Without Whitebeard, chaos could reign supreme, and pirates, like DoFlamingo (who are not having an adventure (i.e. trying to attain the title of Pirate King), but are instead only in the business of pirating for wealth) could become more prevelent. (In fact this is kind of the point of DoFlamingo - he represents a new age of piracy not restricted by the norms and conventions of the previous age.)

There is no need to discuss Dragon, there is no need to refference Roger, there is no need to bring up anything that you are mentioning. The original question was: What could happen to the world if Whitebeard were to fall. I answered it, and even focused entirely on what Whitebeard does within the One Piece universe and what could specifically happen if he were to fall (I do not care if Dragon or Shanks or whoever can pick up the slack, the question was only keyed to the specifics of Whitebeard's downfall not who could fill his place). All of this peripheral info and side points, while potentially valid, are unneeded for my answer.
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-24, 16:56   Link #172
Fipskuul
τηε πιγητ ωατςη
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: τη λαnδ of веагз αnδ дг
Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^Once again, I am not talking about good or evil, I am not talking about criminal or inoccent, etc. I am talking about chaos. Whitebeard, by controlling the shipping lanes to and from the New World, actively controlled which pirates could go to the New World.
Interesting? Yet, I haven't heard anything of that sort. The only protection he had is for the pirates not to do bad things at the places he put his name on. He wasn't staying there, and I doubt his men were staying there either. I highly doubt that he put a Whitebeard police cordon on the passageways and captured the ones not fitting his desires. I guess that is enough.

Quote:
Without Whitebeard, chaos could reign supreme, and pirates, like DoFlamingo (who are not having an adventure (i.e. trying to attain the title of Pirate King), but are instead only in the business of pirating for wealth) could become more prevelent. (In fact this is kind of the point of DoFlamingo - he represents a new age of piracy not restricted by the norms and conventions of the previous age.)
Again, you are going with the assumption that no other pirate or World Government would be strong enough to stop these kind of guys. Haven't Luffy taught us enough that it is not all about Whitebeard? Whitebeard's era is almost over, and the ones who will be able to stop these bad guys are growing as we speak. And it is not like Whitebeard dying would result in all his men dying either.

Quote:
There is no need to discuss Dragon,
There is every reason to discuss Dragon. You assume that without Whitebeard there wouldn't be anything to stop guys like Doflamingo. That means, you are ignoring other power players, who may not have entered the picture yet, even though they can be as capable as Whitebeard to achieve that, or may be even better than him.

Quote:
there is no need to refference Roger,
There is quite a bit of reason to reference Roger, especially if you try to categorize silver medalists under the same brand as Doflamingo.

Quote:
The original question was: What could happen to the world if Whitebeard were to fall. I answered it, and even focused entirely on what Whitebeard does within the One Piece universe and what could specifically happen if he were to fall (I do not care if Dragon or Shanks or whoever can pick up the slack, the question was only keyed to the specifics of Whitebeard's downfall not who could fill his place). All of this peripheral info and side points, while potentially valid, are unneeded for my answer.
They are needed for answer. Because what you are saying is essentially dividing the universe into two groups, one including only Whitebeard, innocent people, and bad pirates. The other side, everything else. The universe is a complete one. Whitebeard might have helped a lot before, but it is not like the current times are as bad as the past times. And it is not like there are other growing players who can successfully take over Whitebeard. There is a reason why Shanks and his crew who were just a kid at one time, when Whitebeard was close to his maximum potential, grew up to be as strong as Whitebeard and his crew.
__________________
Fipskuul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-25, 09:39   Link #173
Red-Haired_Shanks
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
It doesn't matter, because Whitebeard never won either. And, the one to be called as the Pirate King was none other than Roger. And if you consider their fights to be more like fights for Whitebeard to take over Roger, the result can be considered as nothing but a failure. Maybe that is one of the reasons why the pirate king seat is still empty, despite Roger's absence. Whitebeard can be the strongest man alive right now, but I will find it hard to believe that he has ever become a man of Roger's stature.
You're missing some important facts...
Roger wasn't trying to become Pirate King, he just wanted to conquer the Grand Line...
Roger also never called himself the Pirate King, the people did...
Nobody knows if Whitebeard was, or is, even trying to become Pirate King...
Because giving Whitebeard's personality... i doubt he cares...
Being the Strongest Man in The Seas is a title that fits his personality...
Roger was called the Pirate King only because he made it all the way to Raftel...
Not only that Whitebeard, Rayleigh, and Roger (with a few others) are all old school...
Pirates in this current era sail the seas to become Pirate King and find One Piece...
Doubt Whitebeard cares about either one...

Last edited by Red-Haired_Shanks; 2009-06-25 at 15:10.
Red-Haired_Shanks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-25, 12:14   Link #174
Fipskuul
τηε πιγητ ωατςη
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: τη λαnδ of веагз αnδ дг
Important fact? The only fact is that Whitebeard has never been the pirate king, whereas Roger was. And, check Chapter 159 for Ace's comments regarding Whitebeard, whether he is "still" on his way to become the pirate king or not.
__________________
Fipskuul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-25, 12:27   Link #175
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
Again, you are going with the assumption that no other pirate or World Government would be strong enough to stop these kind of guys. Haven't Luffy taught us enough that it is not all about Whitebeard? Whitebeard's era is almost over, and the ones who will be able to stop these bad guys are growing as we speak. And it is not like Whitebeard dying would result in all his men dying either.
"Sigh." I have never assumed that no one could replace Whitebeard. In fact, I do not even care. What you do not understand, or refuse to understand, is that who could or will replace Whitebeard, is a completely seperate issue that what chaos could potentially happen when Whitebeard falls (whyich is all I have ever addressed). If all I am worried about (in my posts) are the specifics of what chaos could happen when Whitebeard falls (i.e. the disruptive influences that would effect the world of the Pirates), why would I be worried about who could step in and stop the chaos? In other words, if I am only interested in addressing the potential chaos that could result from Whitebeard's fall, why would I address how the potential chaos ends?

If you are that interested in how the potential chaos could end, then write a post addressing your points, and stop trying to force your stances and opinions on top of my post.
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-25, 12:54   Link #176
Fipskuul
τηε πιγητ ωατςη
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: τη λαnδ of веагз αnδ дг
Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
In other words, if I am only interested in addressing the potential chaos that could result from Whitebeard's fall, why would I address how the potential chaos ends?
And that is why I said you are focusing on a specific item and ignore the rest. The potential chaos is only "important" if it lasts very long or be at a level that cannot be stopped. That is the reason you are posting many times about the chaos. You are expecting something extremely big out of that, by exaggerating Whitebeard's influence way too much. It is not like he is the sole preventive measure for what not happens in the world. There are many other factors that do not intervene, cause it is not needed as much. But, in case such help is needed, the people will be there to do so. Aren't we given enough hints on that with what Luffy had done along his travels, and what Dragon is doing right now. And it is not like the World Government and Shichibukai are completely ignorant of everything either.
__________________
Fipskuul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-25, 13:01   Link #177
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
^It's not about being too specific or not within the confines of the world, it is about addressing the topic. The original topic wasn't "list everything that could occur after Whitebeard falls, and eveyone that could benefit or not from his fall" (which would include some of what you and I have mentioned), it was simply, "what are the immediate effects of Whitebeard's fall", consequently, my answer was more than sufficient to address the topic.

I'm going to stop now, since there is no need for me to facilitate your discussion. If you want to make a point, simply write a post where you make a point. Stop trying to force information into my posts, especially info that is not needed for what I am trying to discuss.
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-25, 13:09   Link #178
Fipskuul
τηε πιγητ ωατςη
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: τη λαnδ of веагз αnδ дг
I believe I did make my point during the last few posts. And I never consider finding gaps in arguments as forcing unneeded information....as long as the context enables me to make that counter argument.
__________________
Fipskuul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-06-25, 15:15   Link #179
Red-Haired_Shanks
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
Important fact? The only fact is that Whitebeard has never been the pirate king, whereas Roger was. And, check Chapter 159 for Ace's comments regarding Whitebeard, whether he is "still" on his way to become the pirate king or not.
Doesn't matter...
Ace doesn't know about Whitebeard's past...
Whitebeard has a large fleet comparable to Don Krieg...
The fact he is regarded as the Strongest man alive is because he is the only man to fight "Equal" with the Pirate King...
and being as though Gol D. Roger NEVER ACTUALLY DEFEATED HIM...
But made it to Raftel FIRST...
Its safe to say that he's as strong as Roger
Red-Haired_Shanks is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.