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Old 2009-06-25, 15:47   Link #61
Prestige
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Charecter deaths dont mean that series are good.

Going Merry was 'just' a ship but its death was still 10 times more emotional and meaningful than any deaths happened in Naruto who people consider 'serious' manga.
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Old 2009-06-25, 15:55   Link #62
Charred Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prestige View Post
Charecter deaths dont mean that series are good.

Going Merry was 'just' a ship but its death was still 10 times more emotional and meaningful than any deaths happened in Naruto who people consider 'serious' manga.
Yes, but Going Merry was treated like a character. The destruction of Going Merry was treated less like people burning a ship that can no longer sail, and more like the Euthanasia of a loved one.

It's easily the best scene in the entire series just because Oda for that one moment threw off the gloves and basically killed something.
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Old 2009-06-25, 16:00   Link #63
kakakka
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I think it's better that no one dies.

Why? Because this is shonen, and the next thing to killing off people is bringing them back to life, which is more unrealistic...
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Old 2009-06-25, 16:05   Link #64
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by kakakka View Post
I think it's better that no one dies.

Why? Because this is shonen, and the next thing to killing off people is bringing them back to life, which is more unrealistic...
I don't agree with that at all.

Just because it's shonen doesn't mean that you should just write exclusivly for 10-12 year olds. They can handle a little death, just don't go overboard and kill off half the cast.

Last edited by Charred Knight; 2009-06-25 at 16:24.
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Old 2009-06-25, 16:11   Link #65
Master Mold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prestige View Post
Charecter deaths dont mean that series are good.

Going Merry was 'just' a ship but its death was still 10 times more emotional and meaningful than any deaths happened in Naruto who people consider 'serious' manga.
I don't get emotional with these stories, and no that ship's dismantlement wasn't any where close to meaningful as the J-mans death.
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Old 2009-06-25, 16:15   Link #66
Nightmare-Kun
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i see this more of a teen manga

because seriously its perverted with pirates drooling over hot women

staying on topic this chapter discussion

i really liked this chapter it was sad
i cried when bon-chan did that
it was emotional
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Old 2009-06-25, 16:15   Link #67
kakakka
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Just because it's shonen doesn't mean that you should just write exclusivly for 10-12 year olds. They can handle a little death, just don't go overboard and kill off hald the cast.
Well, little deaths happen. But heroic deaths (and/or deaths by favourite characters) are sometimes hard to swallow for the targeted audience.
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Old 2009-06-25, 16:26   Link #68
james0246
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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
I don't get emotional with these stories, and no that ship's dismantlement wasn't any where close to meaningful as the J-mans death.
Are you talking about Jesus .

Joking aside, Jiraiya's and Merry's death were actually very similar. Both, despite being grievously injured, managed to work up just enough strength to accomplish one last mission that helped to secure the safety of their friends/loved-ones (Jiraiya by obtaining the info needed to secure victory, and Merry by sailing in and saving its crew from certain doom).

These were heroic deaths and should be "respected" as such (or at least as much respect as can be given to fictional characters).

That being said, I am not sure why people are annoyed with Bon Clay's supposed death. He came to Impel Down originally to find and help Ivankov, so Clay, unlike anyone else, actually managed to fulfill his wishes and helped to save Ivankov and Luffy. Good on you Bon Clay.
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Old 2009-06-25, 16:28   Link #69
kakakka
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I am not sure why people are annoyed with Bon Clay's supposed death....
It's more of 'people are annoyed with Bon Clay's supposedly fake death'
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Old 2009-06-25, 16:40   Link #70
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by kakakka View Post
It's more of 'people are annoyed with Bon Clay's supposedly fake death'
I am not annoyed I just don't care, its hard to care about character's supposed deaths when one of them survived holding a bomb that was supposed to blow up a city.

A mangaka needs to know how to kill a character you don't kill anyone and the people don't think anyone can die, you kill to much and you can ruin a manga.

Houshin Enegi is probably the best example of a mangaka completely failing at this when he killed off a lot of character with depth, and didn't kill off the villain who was a one note EVIL hot chick, and instead created an ending that made no sense.
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Old 2009-06-25, 16:41   Link #71
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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I really enjoyed this chapter. The scene where Jimbei scolded Luffy was the pivotal moment for Luffy. Luffy has now understood that not everyone can be saved, and that he has to move on forward even though he may be reluctant to leave behind such a great friend. Good stuff right there.

As for this Impel Down arc so far, I would place it in my top 3 One Piece story arcs. Every single significant character has contributed their fair share towards escaping the gaol, there has been excellent teamwork, Magellan really lived up to his reputation of being the chief warden of the world's most impenetrable fortress, and most importantly, Luffy has advanced a big step in his character development. In addition to all of this, we still have yet to see what Blackbeard and Shiryuu are up to. I know that this arc gets a lot of hate from fans (partially due to the fact that the strawhats are not around), but it has certainly lived up to my expectations.
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Old 2009-06-25, 16:41   Link #72
Master Mold
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Are you talking about Jesus .
Is that what they are calling him now a days? lol

Quote:
Joking aside, Jiraiya's and Merry's death were actually very similar. Both, despite being grievously injured, managed to work up just enough strength to accomplish one last mission that helped to secure the safety of their friends/loved-ones (Jiraiya by obtaining the info needed to secure victory, and Merry by sailing in and saving its crew from certain doom).

These were heroic deaths and should be "respected" as such (or at least as much respect as can be given to fictional characters).
I wasn't talking about respect, I was talking about purpose and the J-mans death holds more weight then the Go Merry's dismantlement. True there is similarities but its obvious the J-man death brought greater results then the Go Merry's dismantlement.

Last edited by Master Mold; 2009-06-25 at 16:56. Reason: a bit of spoon feeding.
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Old 2009-06-25, 17:34   Link #73
james0246
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Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
Houshin Enegi is probably the best example of a mangaka completely failing at this when he killed off a lot of character with depth, and didn't kill off the villain who was a one note EVIL hot chick, and instead created an ending that made no sense.
Not to get too much into a Houshin Engi, but death was kind of the point of the series. Taikobo's mission on Earth was to kill the Sennin, no matter if they are good or evil, and despite the somewhat nonsensical ending (which is debatable), Taikobo's mission was successful.

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Is that what they are calling him now a days? lol
Actually, I have heard Jesus called the J-Man for at least the past 20 years, possibly longer...not that my little joke actually matter .
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Old 2009-06-25, 18:41   Link #74
holypanl
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
As for this Impel Down arc so far, I would place it in my top 3 One Piece story arcs. Every single significant character has contributed their fair share towards escaping the gaol, there has been excellent teamwork, Magellan really lived up to his reputation of being the chief warden of the world's most impenetrable fortress, and most importantly, Luffy has advanced a big step in his character development. In addition to all of this, we still have yet to see what Blackbeard and Shiryuu are up to. I know that this arc gets a lot of hate from fans (partially due to the fact that the strawhats are not around), but it has certainly lived up to my expectations.
Well, to be perfectly frank, the real reason I didn't find this arc to be as good as I'd estimated, or as good as it could have been, or whatever, was really because...

Okay, I'll try to explain it: The Cypher Pol 9 and Enies' Lobby arc was unarguably the most serious, and awesome arc in all of OP, followed, imho, by the Sky Island Arc. Even though the Strawhats went in full blast, and charged a frightfully powerful enemy, the arc still maintained its dignity because of the sheer prowess the antagonist group displayed.

Although, to be fair, Luffy was extremely serious during this arc. I believe this arc ws probably one of the most amazing ones so far because I saw Luffy grow so many levels, and not just physically, but Mentally, and Emotionally, and chronologically overall. It had surprises for everyone, on every character, and in intricate plot focused on development like I've never seen in any other of the "Big Three" anime.

Actually, I wouldn't hesitate to say that the CP9 arc in OP is the best arc to debut from all three of the big league manga so far.

And don't even begin to talk about the planetary warps that Usopp underwent in terms of growth. Amazing.

Wherever the SH crew took the seriousness of the situation for granted, it was completely overshadowed by the purely incomprehensible threat that Lucci and Kaku presented. Even the Franky family, who managed to miraculously survive (I think they should have died...honestly...), didn't even bother me. The arc was just pure and total WIN.

In keeping with the Enies' Lobby standard, and seeing as Impel Down is linked to Enies Lobby, and holds the world's most dangerous criminals, I expected a standard as good as, or higher than Enies' Lobby.

I did NOT expect the ENTIRE prison to all be barely held together by only ONE man. Throughout this whole arc he was the only one who was competent among the Impel Down staff.

So the laissez-fair stuff is really piercing through now, seeing as there's no real shadow looming over.

Luffy was breaking into a stronghold of people in their own turf. It's ridiculous for him to find a group of transvestites sandwiched between the floors and motivate them to get themselves killed in order to give him a chance to escape.

The arc is lacking the Enforcer. The character who holds a death grip over them all, and whom, while all is being said and done, is, although with-held, a given, who pervades every phase of protagonist operations. Magellan is pulling the whole prison's weight. And managing it well, but he needs...assistance. A bit more clout to wield.

So far Shiryuu has been a waste. Hannyabal was nothing short of disappointing (amusing, but less than I expected), and Sadi-chan, although hard-set and determined to do well, has yet to show that the beasts are of any use to anyone.

All in all, a good arc, but lack of CRUCIAL plot characters who should have been there to guide things along makes it void of real impact.

And forever, Enies Lobby will stand out as being awesomely fear-instilling...but the next tool in the World Government's chain of intimidation will be remembered as the weak link. It doesn't match up.
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Old 2009-06-25, 19:01   Link #75
rob lucci
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BUGGY and Croccodile

oh man really forgot about Buggy and CrocoBoy part...

on pages 7 hahaha...
when Crocoboy says. Why you dont try of firing back...
and buggy steal his idea.
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Old 2009-06-25, 20:08   Link #76
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by holypanl View Post
Okay, I'll try to explain it: The Cypher Pol 9 and Enies' Lobby arc was unarguably the most serious, and awesome arc in all of OP, followed, imho, by the Sky Island Arc. Even though the Strawhats went in full blast, and charged a frightfully powerful enemy, the arc still maintained its dignity because of the sheer prowess the antagonist group displayed.
I think it's debatable as to whether this arc or Enies Lobby was more serious. You probably feel that way partially because Impel Down's staff (sans Magellan and Shiryuu) was incompetent, and that is certainly true based on what has transpired. The CP9 had some really serious characters (such as Lucci, Kaku, and Blueno) but the group also had its share of goons (i.e. Jyabura, Kumadori, and Fukurou).

In terms of being formidable and tough, Blueno, Jyabura, Kaku, and Kalifa, honestly didn't pose much of a threat when the strawhats came back in exuberant form. Blueno stood no chance against Gear 2 Luffy, Jyabura got destroyed by Sanji, Kaku didn't give Zoro no where near as much trouble as Mr. 1 did, and Kalifa lost to Nami of all people. It was Fukurou, Kumadori, and especially Lucci, that gave their respective opponents a difficult time.

In terms of the harshness and severity of the environment, Impel Down has Enies Lobby beat, hands down. Each floor specializing in a particular method of torture, prisoners living in despair that they'll never be able to see the outside world again, and of course having an enforcer who instills fear for the reason being that he can potentially kill anyone, all make Impel Down by far the worst place we've seen to date. But then again that's a given considering that it's supposed to be a place that houses the most dangerous criminals, so it should be very grim and forbidding indeed.

What I will give you though, is that the Water 7/Enies Lobby arc was more grand/major than this one. The thing is though, I feel that Impel Down is merely going to be the prelude to the MarineFord arc, kind of like how Water 7 was the prelude to the Enies Lobby arc. If that's the case, it's kind of unfair to compare this arc to the entirety of the Water 7/Enies Lobby arc, since the Impel Down arc in itself gets beat out in longevity and grand scale. Don't get me wrong, for the Water 7/Enies Lobby arc is my favorite still, followed by Alabasta, and then the current Impel Down arc.

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Originally Posted by holypanl View Post
Luffy was breaking into a stronghold of people in their own turf. It's ridiculous for him to find a group of transvestites sandwiched between the floors and motivate them to get themselves killed in order to give him a chance to escape.
I do agree with you on this. But this is just something we have to accept, since the story is almost always rigged for Luffy to miraculously succeed.

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Originally Posted by holypanl View Post
And forever, Enies Lobby will stand out as being awesomely fear-instilling...but the next tool in the World Government's chain of intimidation will be remembered as the weak link. It doesn't match up.
I think it's premature to say this. Just in this chapter alone, something unprecedented happened, that is, the escape of 241 prisoners. This occurrence, combined with whatever Blackbeard has planned at Impel Down, are going to adversely affect the World Government and the world of One Piece as we know it. The last caption in this chapter is a sign of something really bad to come, similar to the end of the Blackbeard vs. Ace fight.
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Old 2009-06-25, 20:20   Link #77
paradox13
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Whats so good about killing off characters?

I don't see the attraction ppl have with it.
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Old 2009-06-25, 20:27   Link #78
SMASHERJACKSON
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Whats so good about killing off characters?

I don't see the attraction ppl have with it.
it makes shounen manga more like seinin manga

i wonder if Oda will have a jango reappearence in light of recent events
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Old 2009-06-25, 20:32   Link #79
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Whats so good about killing off characters?

I don't see the attraction ppl have with it.
Not killing off characters when it was very assured that they would die (i.e. Pell and that girl's father from Skypiea) really cheapens the overall tone/seriousness of the drama. It completely destroys the impact of having a sense of tragedy and takes away from the severity of the situation. This is a story about pirates, and the life of a pirate is not pretty.

Honestly now, if not one person dies in this upcoming war, will you be satisfied?
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Old 2009-06-25, 20:40   Link #80
SMASHERJACKSON
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Not killing off characters when it was very assured that they would die (i.e. Pell and that girl's father from Skypiea) really cheapens the overall tone/seriousness of the drama. It completely destroys the impact of having a sense of tragedy and takes away from the severity of the situation. This is a story about pirates, and the life of a pirate is not pretty.

Honestly now, if not one person dies in this upcoming war, will you be satisfied?
though i knocked the value of characters deaths in my previous post, but i do agree not killing them off when its very assured they would does cheapen the story tjhough i think its reasonable if a legitamate reason is given as to why they havnt.
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