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Old 2009-06-22, 20:52   Link #1
monir
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Haruhi Suzumiya - Spoilers & Speculation (for experienced Haruhi Fans only)

This thread is for the experienced Suzumiya Haruhi viewer (i.e. those of you who are familiar with potentially all the light novels / manga), its purpose is to allow free discussion of theories and speculation over the Suzumiya Haruhi anime series, it therefore will contain unmarked spoilers. If you are a light novel / manga virgin of Suzumiya Haruhi, then do not read this thread unless you want to be spoiled (use the Speculation & Theories for Anime-Only Haruhi-fans).

Since posters are expected to be familiar with the light novel / manga, there is no real need for spoiler tags, but feel free to include them if you so wish.

Adding a Spoiler tag:
Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms.
Make sure that you include a title that clearly identifies the specific source of the spoiler!

Finally, please remain on-topic and do not use this thread if it's just discussion about the current or previous anime episodes. Also remember that this isn't a light novel / manga discussion thread, if you do want to discuss the light novel then please use the existing thread.

Last edited by monir; 2009-06-22 at 21:08.
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Old 2009-06-22, 20:58   Link #2
Kaisos Erranon
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I've... thank you.

Thank you so much. Finally a place where we can speculate out our ears.
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Old 2009-06-22, 21:01   Link #3
Roger Rambo
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BWAHAHAHAHA! NOW TO COMMENCE WITH OUR EVIL SCHEMING!

So seriously, the Anti SOS coming up with some kind of elaborate Xanatos gambit cliff hanger for volume 10 or what?
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Old 2009-06-22, 21:04   Link #4
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
So seriously, the Anti SOS coming up with some kind of elaborate Xanatos gambit cliff hanger for volume 10 or what?
I'm sure they have something planned that involves Kyon transferring over the powers either by accident or because he thinks, incorrectly, that it's the right thing to do.

Though they won't survive Beta either, most likely...

It's just more likely that Alpha will end with a parting conversation between them and Kyon, and then they'll vanish for a few books until they're important again. (Lol status quo and all actually the big books always fuck with the status quo in some small way)

Besides, they'll need new members to mirror Kyon and Slider-tan.
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Old 2009-06-22, 21:11   Link #5
Roger Rambo
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Poor slider-tan. Apparently she's an important character but she doesn't get any illustrations yet.
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Old 2009-06-22, 21:39   Link #6
kniteowl
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Well we might get to see her on the cover of Volume 10, her or Sasaki lol.

I was wondering if in one of the dimensions, Kyon does turn to the AntiSOS-Dan, does that mean Kyon may have to face his evil counter-part in some kind of Slider wars? lmao... nah... unlikely but still...
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Old 2009-06-22, 23:45   Link #7
quigonkenny
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Originally Posted by kniteowl View Post
Well we might get to see her on the cover of Volume 10, her or Sasaki lol.

I was wondering if in one of the dimensions, Kyon does turn to the AntiSOS-Dan, does that mean Kyon may have to face his evil counter-part in some kind of Slider wars? lmao... nah... unlikely but still...
What are they going to do to face off? Try to out-snark each other?

Although that does give me an idea for Volume 10. Maybe the Anti-dan comes to beta!Kyon in the first part of 10 and convinces him that if he helps them give Sasaki Haruhi's power then unlike Haruhi's access to the power, her more active control will be able to keep Yuki safe, and he does so in order to save Yuki. That would be an in-character reason for him to side with the Anti-dan and be on the opposite side of alpha!Kyon once he comes over to the betaverse with Slider-tan...
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Old 2009-06-23, 03:07   Link #8
dnab
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I sense that the Mods (the good, sincere people of infinite wisdom) had trouble herding the certain troublesome elements of the Haruhi board into any pre-existing threads that they can do least damage, so they created this "delinquent homeroom" where we can spoil each other to death without collateral damages. Yes we may be antisocial, smoking early, and not getting into any 3rd rate colleges, but damn we're cool people.

Let me stray back into topic so I don't get called into detention. We might get a better handle of the slider-girl if we can surmise the time-dimensional-theory of the Haruhi-verse. This is all speculation, of course, until Tanigawa spells it out later. Lets suppose Mikuru and Fujiwara each came from a mutually exclusive future (of which the existence depended on Kyon's choice for mate), they may be considered parallel universe with each other but they at least have a common past, so the futurist restrictions in the present applies (no direct intervention with fore knowledge allowed; only verbal influence or actions through ignorance).

What if there exists a parallel universe which, though similar with the one here, intersects no point at anytime. Then sliders may act with fore knowledge (like jumping into different futures, check out which one she likes, and jump back to affect the present) without the paradox restrictions.

IF the speculation holds, and I'd be surprised if it does, then this is how the story will pan out: One universe where the phone intervention did not occur will lead to the destruction of SOS. And since the slider-girl finds SOS so interesting, besides being called forth by Haruhi, she decides to join. Who knows, she might be joining simply because she digs Kyon.

Did anyone mention that this is a Harem story disguised as sci-fi teen comedy?
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Old 2009-06-23, 03:30   Link #9
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by dnab View Post
*snip*
You're confusing "parallel universes" with "alternate timelines".

The Haruhi universe, as far as we know, does NOT operate on the many-worlds theory in regards to time travel. There is ONE future. (This is partially supported by the fact that Fujiwara has met Mikuru before, probably her adult self.) Also, Kyon's own time travel never created alternate timelines, it only returned the timeline to normal.

Now, it's more than likely that slider-tan comes from another universe completely separate from the Haruhiverse. As such, her presence should affect the timeline in no way whatsoever. Maybe.

The timing of the phone call may have been completely coincidental, or it may not have been.

We'll find out soon, I hope...

Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
Although that does give me an idea for Volume 10. Maybe the Anti-dan comes to beta!Kyon in the first part of 10 and convinces him that if he helps them give Sasaki Haruhi's power then unlike Haruhi's access to the power, her more active control will be able to keep Yuki safe, and he does so in order to save Yuki. That would be an in-character reason for him to side with the Anti-dan and be on the opposite side of alpha!Kyon once he comes over to the betaverse with Slider-tan...
That's... that's actually really great, especially because the Anti-SOS are most likely behind Yuki's current illness.

Bastards.
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Old 2009-06-23, 03:44   Link #10
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@dnab

well for those of us who've seen episode 25 of Haruhi-chan with the Visual Novel Opening can pretty much guess that, even if it's true most of us don't really care as long as the series is enjoyable.

We probably all guess that Kyon will end up with Haruhi in the original Haruhi-verse that we've currently watching/reading (you know which Haruhi-verse I'm talking about) but since Sliders exist (well we think they do) Kyon could potentially end up with anyone since it appears Haruhi's power are transferable.

It'd be kool if Kyon could visit all the interesting different possible dimensions.... like one where he decided to stay in the normal world where Aliens, Time Traverllers, Espers & Sliders don't exist... wait maybe he can't visit that world since sliders don't exist and even if he could he could never return to his own world.... ah my head hurts... lol

Although it would be interesting to see all of Kyon's potential female partners in the alternate worlds... nah that's too cliche lol...
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Old 2009-06-23, 05:28   Link #11
dnab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnab View Post
What if there exists a parallel universe which, though similar with the one here, intersects no point at anytime. Then sliders may act with fore knowledge (like jumping into different futures, check out which one she likes, and jump back to affect the present) without the paradox restrictions.
Actually I'm quite aware of the difference between parallel universe and alternate timelines. (We're assuming here that the girl who made the call to Kyon in bath is in fact a slider) It would make her action more purposeful if she knows what she's doing. The alpha and beta are distinct timelines, and that call shouldn't be an accident. I've given her the ability to go "up & down" as well as "sideways" so she can obtain this fore knowledge herself, but there ought other, creative means to attain the said fore knowledge. The purpose for this exercise is not to "call the market" (serious business to dominate a thread) but "present possibilities" (fun exercise in rhetorical musing).

In support of the multiple-future theory, there are a couple places I can think of off top of my head:

1) In Kyon & Mikuru's first encounter with Fujiwara, Kyon asked Mikuru "if she knew of this asshole", to which she replied "I don't know. My ..... eh, known people does not include him." I'm being literal here, but the stutter doesn't show up in some translations. It could, of course, be the result of Mikuru being nervous of the situation. An intriguing possibility is that she swallowed a word in midstream to rephrase her sentence. "My (future/timeline) does not include him"?

2) After the failed Michiru kidnapping attempt Fujiwara again showed up in the kidnapper vehicle. At which he said "This is a predetermined event, too. For us as well, that is. So you can't blame us." And the kidnapper girl said, "You tell me, how many futures have been decided? It requires a bit of skill to follow through to the correct outcome without deviating from the intended path, you know. While anyone can dance easily, it's very difficult having to dance correctly as instructed."

Fujiwara's first encounter with Mikuru may not be her first encounter with him, like Kyon & Yuki. But again they can still be coming from different futures to dangle in the present. Nothing Tanigawa written yet has precluded multiple-futures.
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Old 2009-06-23, 10:20   Link #12
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yeah, after reviewing the situation, the bramble nest of time-lines, and thinking about how something that is getting as bizarre as HHGttG to describe - I asked for this "end-game" thread where people who have read the whole thing and watched everything available can run amuck.

Sliders vs Time travelers.... brushing against real cosmological theory, sliders would be a restricted version of time travel (time and space; multiple worlds). Sliders can move "horizontally" across the realm of possibility but not forward or backward along the time axis in any unusual way.

Fortunately for the sanity of the reader, the universe and how it works in SHnY is constructed in simplistic way to facilitate telling a ripping good tall tale of a story.
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Old 2009-06-23, 12:05   Link #13
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by dnab View Post
Fujiwara's first encounter with Mikuru may not be her first encounter with him, like Kyon & Yuki. But again they can still be coming from different futures to dangle in the present. Nothing Tanigawa written yet has precluded multiple-futures.
Yes it does. The very nature of the way time travel works in Haruhi precludes multiple futures.

Else Kyon would be creating a new universe every time he time traveled.
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Old 2009-06-23, 12:39   Link #14
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Anyway, to get on topic, from now on, I will post my episode thoughts here first, before scrutinizing it obnoxiously and then copying and pasting the butchered "spoiler-free" version over.
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Last edited by White Manju Bun; 2009-06-23 at 17:42. Reason: this is a discussion not a rally...
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Old 2009-06-25, 19:08   Link #15
dnab
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Posting more would get this dangerously close of being booted into the Ontology thread. So I'm gonna try winding down here.

Kyon is the readers' lens for the past and present, and there should be just One present (not counting parallel dimensions etc.). But beyond that the future is full of possibilities - so much so that someone from Mikuru's time will have to send someone to now in order to stabilize their time with action parameters (usually performed by Kyon, influenced by Mikuru who could have been engineered towards his taste). If there is just One future then there's no need for these activities. Let's say Kyon missed some of the required parameter inputs (say he doesn't find the chip or save the inventive kid) the world will not go into oblivion, but the future(s) where time travel is possible will be eliminated, along with Mikuru and Fujiwara whether they're from the same timeline or not. But multiple futures are possible at critical points where Kyon, in his free will, chooses his actions.

There are enough hints to suggest that Mikuru isn't 100% natural, and I don't mean her boobs. She's either got machines implanted in her or, more interestingly, engineered along and within her. She probably IS a time machine. Whatever transtemporal communicating device inside her ear, and that TPDD thing on her face, of all places. Apologies for treading old theories, but it's all news to me.
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Old 2009-06-26, 01:30   Link #16
quigonkenny
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Originally Posted by dnab View Post
Whatever transtemporal communicating device inside her ear, and that TPDD thing on her face, of all places. Apologies for treading old theories, but it's all news to me.
"On her face"? What are you talking about? There's nothing odd about her face. Except when the Key series animators animate it... Mikuru-chan wa O O ja nai!

Or are you talking about my theory of Mikuru(big) stealing the TPDD in BLR by touching Mikuru(small) on the face? That theory assumes the TPDD is nanotech, so as long as she can call the constituent nanobots to her from inside Mikuru, where she touches her to transfer them shouldn't be important. She poked Mikuru(small) on her sleeping face because it's cute....
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Old 2009-06-27, 16:48   Link #17
dnab
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Indeed, the TPDD can be suggested to be in/around/proximity of Mikuru's face, and not "on" her face like an acne per se.

Reason to even suggest that is that, of course, the only point of physical contact between M(B) and M(S) is the face, but also later when Mikuru woke up the first place she checked for the lost TPDD is also her face.

What we do know about the future (which we know even less than the Data Entity and the Organization) is that they probably don't rely on external devices to implement technologies. Things are likely integrated into bodies (which we don't even know if bodies will be naturally produced or not) so that a) they can time travel anytime/anywhere, b) communicate sans handsets, c) travel without needing, say, boats, d) internet without needing, say, computers.

Nanotech is a possibility, because it's what Yuki uses to suppress Mikuru-beams and provide time-shields and what-not. But I have a (totally unfounded) theory as well. A physical manifestation of a future person could in fact be a walking-programmable-hardware capable of all device activities. Thus instead of nanobots floating the bloodstream, different regions of the body are programmable into specific machines. A Human iPhone. M(B) can thus remove TPDD from M(S) by erasing the local programming for it.

Mikuru isn't allowed to carry a weapon because, not per Kyon's usually misleading interpretation of possibly misplacing it, she might accidentally use it to kill someone a la Mikuru-beam. Guess what that'll do to her career future?

Last edited by dnab; 2009-06-27 at 17:00.
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Old 2009-06-27, 21:36   Link #18
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by dnab View Post
A Human iPhone.
Did you just say, "Human iPhone"?

Seriously though, I do like your theory about the time travelers actually BEING time machines. It's oddly... fitting.
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Old 2009-06-27, 21:54   Link #19
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Kyon is a Time Lord and Mikuru is his TARDIS.

... Sorry, couldn't resist
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... well at least it's consistent...
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Old 2009-06-27, 21:57   Link #20
C.A.
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I've always thought Mikuru is completely wired from head to toe, she obviously has a wired neural network for all sorts of purposes.

There could be able sorts of cybernetic implants, nanomachines and stuff integrated into her system.

Each time Yuki interacts with her, you can get a glimpse of what she may be equipped with. Like receiving data through touch and receiving treatment in the form of nanomachines.

All these technologies are already being researched and developed.
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