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Old 2009-06-30, 00:40   Link #1361
Tak
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Does it even say that? I thought he was talking generally...y'know, "You don't like people like that at first, but then they show you their cute side."
Cmon bud, yer arguing technicalities here

And truth be told, he didn't like Sheryl at first (he was part of the general crowd). He even admitted in a very early interview that he was initially not convinced that Sheryl would be an important character.

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Old 2009-06-30, 00:46   Link #1362
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Cmon bud, yer arguing technicalities here

And truth be told, he didn't like Sheryl at first (he was part of the general crowd). He even admitted in a very early interview that he was initially not convinced that Sheryl would be an important character.

- Tak
It's NOT a technicality. Saying, "[This character I created], I didn't like her at first, but they she showed me her cute side" is very different from saying "[This character I created], you don't like her at first, but then she shows her cute side." One sounds like personal preference, the other sounds like the way she's designed to come across.
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Old 2009-06-30, 00:50   Link #1363
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
It's NOT a technicality. Saying, "[This character I created], I didn't like her at first, but they she showed me her cute side" is very different from saying "[This character I created], you don't like her at first, but then she shows her cute side." One sounds like personal preference, the other sounds like the way she's designed to come across.
The fact is that he said or at least implied both statements. One in the previous earlier interview, and one here. The latter sounds like he is trying to repent, but it came too late for me to accept otherwise.

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Old 2009-06-30, 00:55   Link #1364
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
The fact is that he said or at least implied both statements. One in the previous earlier interview, and one here. The latter sounds like he is trying to repent, but it came too late for me to accept otherwise.

- Tak
Well, at least you agree it's not a technicality.

Where was the earlier interview from? Is there a chance it's still floating around?
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Old 2009-06-30, 00:56   Link #1365
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Well, at least you agree it's not a technicality.

Where was the earlier interview from? Is there a chance it's still floating around?
It was a magazine (I think Famitsu) scan in the very, VERY early days of the show. Its lost here somewhere (that I am sure of).

Although I must admit, a certain fabricated information regarding linear notes have confused my thoughts greatly and made my memory fuzzy.

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Old 2009-06-30, 01:25   Link #1366
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
It was a magazine (I think Famitsu) scan in the very, VERY early days of the show. Its lost here somewhere (that I am sure of).

Although I must admit, a certain fabricated information regarding linear notes have confused my thoughts greatly and made my memory fuzzy.

- Tak
Oh, you haven't heard? It wasn't fabricated, Shaloom just misremembered...
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Old 2009-06-30, 01:32   Link #1367
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Oh, you haven't heard? It wasn't fabricated, Shaloom just misremembered...
A rather creative misremebering indeed...

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Old 2009-06-30, 05:03   Link #1368
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Originally Posted by Snowblind View Post
Then it's a mark against all three of them, at least. And like I said, if Ai really was a simple alien squirrel, and not the harbinger of a Vajra infestation, I'm willing to bet we wouldn't be having this conversation, and everyone would be happy to let it slide.
All right, all three were irresponsible when it came to Ai-kun, but I still say there is a difference between Ranka ("I found an alien creature") and Alto and Nanase ("My friend has an unauthorized alien creature she's keeping as a pet"). That's why people aren't raking them over the coals for the green squirrel, not that I think anyone should be raked over the coals for it.

I think it's important to keep in mind that there might be situations where a character has more culpability than another, even if they all share a portion of the blame.

But really, when it comes down to it, my only problem with Ranka is that by a certain point, she becomes unfathomable to me. I loved her in the early eps, and thought she was totally sympathetic, but there came a point in time where I just didn't understand why she was making the choices she was.
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Old 2009-06-30, 09:43   Link #1369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowblind
Exactly... It was a misjudgement, but one that lots of people could (and did) make. I don't think Ranka (or Alto, or Nanase) should be condemned for all eternity because of it. No one would cry foul if the same thing had happened and Ai-kun was just a harmless pet and not a Vajra.
From what I remembered, there hasn't been any types of arguments lashing out against Ranka and the group for that issue alone, so I'm not sure where this comment is sourced from, at least here in the forum. The negativity centered around Ranka is due to reasons more or less repeatedly stated, and not so much on the accusations of Ranka and Ai-Kun mentioned. If there is though, then it's best to just ignore it if it becomes aggressive, as it's rather petty, pushing an issue that's certainly not worth bashing Ranka with.
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Old 2009-06-30, 10:04   Link #1370
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Originally Posted by cheesie View Post
From what I remembered, there hasn't been any types of arguments lashing out against Ranka and the group for that issue alone, so I'm not sure where this comment is sourced from, at least here in the forum. The negativity centered around Ranka is due to reasons more or less repeatedly stated, and not so much on the accusations of Ranka and Ai-Kun mentioned. If there is though, then it's best to just ignore it if it becomes aggressive, as it's rather petty, pushing an issue that's certainly not worth bashing Ranka with.
hmm I remember someone in this forum really said something similar with this lol, otherwise my signature wouldn't be that specific...I remember someone even saying Ranka gave inappropriate food to Ai-kun and it could potentially murder her pet's life XD and hence I created my signature

But as cheesie said, if those comments become aggressive, ignore it..and we all know that at the end of the day, it's really hard to convince each other...but hey, snowblind, I am sure there are many ppl that agree with your viewpoint
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Old 2009-06-30, 13:37   Link #1371
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Originally Posted by Snowblind View Post
Actually, he does. Episode 17. Ranka tells him all about Ai-kun. He even says he doesn't care if people find out and she gets scolded. So he knows, and chooses to take no action on it.

Even without that line, why should Alto be any less aware than Ranka? He's not new to Frontier. He's been privy to the same education, warnings and ecosystem knowledge as Ranka.



Then it's a mark against all three of them, at least. And like I said, if Ai really was a simple alien squirrel, and not the harbinger of a Vajra infestation, I'm willing to bet we wouldn't be having this conversation, and everyone would be happy to let it slide.

The plot simply demanded that Ranka come into contact with Ai the Vajra (which helps her to learn about them and the way they think, that they're not malevolent, and ultimately leads to a peaceful resolution with their species etc etc). So... you could come up with other ways of doing the same thing, but Ai did have his place in the series as presented.
As I don't have access to the eps to verify it right now, I'll take your word for it that ep 17 shows Alto's awareness of Ai. In that case, yeah all 3 of them gets marks against them for their irresponsibility...more so Alto because I expect a character who helps protects the safety of the colony such as his should know better.

Green squirrel or harbinger of death, I don't think biologists really care. All they really want to know is whether it is harmful to the eco-system and is it capable of reproducing.

It's hard to make the argument that Ai's role was to establish a sympathtic link between Ranka and the Vajra because that effectively began with Ranka's capture by the mothership in ep 12-13? and then followup by every stomach cramp she had when the Vajra were killed. Yet by the time Ranka is aware that Ai is a Vajra, she is already siding with the Vajra camp and her recovering memories only reinforces her doubts of the war with the Vajra. In my opinion, Ai's revelation as a Vajra came way too late to have any real impact. It should have been done several episodes earlier while Ranka was having her doubts, not when she already on the verge of abandoning Fontier's defense and remembering her suppressed memories. That's why in my opinion Ai is nothing more than a furry mascot who true purpose is to be cute and steal panties while adding litte, if anything, to the plot and can easily be written out or be replaced by more significant characters and events.
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Old 2009-06-30, 16:04   Link #1372
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Green squirrel or harbinger of death, I don't think biologists really care. All they really want to know is whether it is harmful to the eco-system and is it capable of reproducing.
Well, I already stated that by now I simply think that all three characters were handed the idiot ball in regards to Ai-kun, but taking it seriously one more time, the connection which really chaps my hide is that Ranka is harboring an unknown alien, while the fleet is under attack from an unknown alien race.

That nobody made the possible connection is what frustrates me so much. Ah, well, requirements to make the plot move along, etc. etc.
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Old 2009-06-30, 18:52   Link #1373
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While this pet issue isn't one that I'm familiar with (was this really a widespread complaint?), it does illustrate how everyone's interpretations of the events depends on their personal values. In this particular case, I'm guessing that some people are less inclined to bring home stray animals of unknown origin than they are to tell on their friends. But there's not just one "correct" way of seeing things.

You don't need to agree with every viewpoint (I share your stance in this particular case, Snowblind, as I'm always fond of acquiring new minions pets), but it's certainly an excellent idea to show interest in where some of these other viewpoints are coming from.
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Old 2009-06-30, 19:22   Link #1374
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While this pet issue isn't one that I'm familiar with (was this really a widespread complaint?), it does illustrate how everyone's interpretations of the events depends on their personal values. In this particular case, I'm guessing that some people are less inclined to bring home stray animals of unknown origin than they are to tell on their friends. But there's not just one "correct" way of seeing things.

You don't need to agree with every viewpoint (I share your stance in this particular case, Snowblind, as I'm always fond of acquiring new minions pets), but it's certainly an excellent idea to show interest in where some of these other viewpoints are coming from.
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Old 2009-06-30, 20:07   Link #1375
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You don't need to agree with every viewpoint ... , but it's certainly an excellent idea to show interest in where some of these other viewpoints are coming from.
Apologies if I'm going too far here, I'll be happy to bite my tongue in the future if everyone has heard enough from me.

And I'm not trying to change anyone's views, but I do take issue when it seems like characters are being unfairly singled out. For the most part I was just trying to point out where actual events ran counter to what was being presented, and offering another perspective on what happened. Anyway, I'm gonna shut up now. Promise.
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Old 2009-06-30, 20:43   Link #1376
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Apologies if I'm going too far here, I'll be happy to bite my tongue in the future if everyone has heard enough from me.

And I'm not trying to change anyone's views, but I do take issue when it seems like characters are being unfairly singled out. For the most part I was just trying to point out where actual events ran counter to what was being presented, and offering another perspective on what happened. Anyway, I'm gonna shut up now. Promise.
Oh, there's nothing wrong with questioning a particular point of view. People sometimes forget how they reached the conclusions they did, and being asked about their viewpoint often gets them to re-examine the situation.

Our personal preferences have little to do with fairness. When you look at it, Grace intentionally brings harm to many people thoughout the series (eradicating Galia-4 is one such example), but I haven't really seen anyone take her to task for it. That isn't to say that the audience condones her actions - but adherence to some "higher moral principle" doesn't really play a role in how likeable she is as a character.

Now, if we were trying to be "fair", then we ought to apply this same standard to all the characters in the series. But we don't, in practice, simply because our expectations for the characters vary across the board. You're going to find more "gut feeling" than "logic" here. So don't let that bother you.

What concerns me more is the "intent" behind any post. It's sometimes tricky to determine whether a comment is made about a character's actions because the poster was bothered by it, or if the comment was made to rationalize why the poster is bothered by the character. But this is a bit of a sensitive issue, especially since I can't possibly be an authority on what someone else is actually thinking.

So in that sense, I'm glad that you're making an attempt to ask probing questions. Just don't expect a consensus at the end of it all.

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Old 2009-06-30, 20:59   Link #1377
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Interesting how the debate doesn't seem to deteriorate into random flaming posts nowadays, eh? We must be growing, eh?

Still waiting for more info on the movies, myself.
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Old 2009-06-30, 21:42   Link #1378
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Interesting how the debate doesn't seem to deteriorate into random flaming posts nowadays, eh? We must be growing, eh?

Still waiting for more info on the movies, myself.
It's much better this way anyways, I'm actually glad that I don't see flaming posts as often as I used to. I guess it just goes to show you who the real fans are huh?

Likewise, I'm waiting on the preview which is my priority at the moment
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Old 2009-06-30, 21:46   Link #1379
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^ - I agree Dexkun, and let me add times are changing.

Now let's see here: no trailer anyone? >__ ___ < somebody forgot to put a hidden camcorder during the EVA movie.
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Old 2009-06-30, 21:50   Link #1380
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^ - I agree Dexkun, and let me add times are changing.

Now let's see here: no trailer anyone? >__ ___ < somebody forgot to put a hidden camcorder during the EVA movie.
It's ok, the longer the preview takes the closer we'll be to watching the actual movie
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