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View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi (2009) - Episode 04 Rating
Perfect 10 43 14.93%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 12 4.17%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 25 8.68%
7 out of 10 : Good 42 14.58%
6 out of 10 : Average 26 9.03%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 13 4.51%
4 out of 10 : Poor 19 6.60%
3 out of 10 : Bad 16 5.56%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 8 2.78%
1 out of 10 : Painful 84 29.17%
Voters: 288. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-07-03, 08:27   Link #261
typhonsentra
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They said in the second episode they've realized the reality of the loop over 8,000 times in the second episode. Why you'd believe this is the first time they've realized this make no sense whatsoever.
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Old 2009-07-03, 08:32   Link #262
Sackett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
THAT complaint really boils down, really, to who the animation director was for this episode. I'm waiting for a.f.k.'s sub for that. Tickle me surprised if it was someone from the team that did K-ON (which just ended... oooooh), as that'll probably generate a deluge of Kaisos-like raging (which is admittedly bush-leagues compared to the SERIOUS BUSINESS arguing I've witnessed -- for the young 'uns out there, I started in the EVA fandom, as evidenced by my sig).
I wouldn't say that so much. I actually am one of those viewers who has little interest in following actors or directors. I do pay a little attention to the writers (of the original material), but even that isn't my main focus. Story lines tend to be the most important part of a show for me, followed by the characters, and I will put up with bad execution for a really good story.

Haruhi Suzumiya has a great story, and complex characters, that's why I like it. Second, I like all the physics and mathematical references- since I am in a mathematics heavy field, and physics was my first love in school.

However, I also like clever methods of telling a story.

For this reason I was impressed by the idea of having one episode to tell the story of Endless Eight straight, and then a second episode to show failure, and a third episode to give the conclusion. It felt good, and I was impressed by the artistic nature of such a method.

A fourth episode inserted to show another failure? I find it unnecessary. I already know the story, and there are no new physics theories to distract me. That left the characters and the execution of the telling of the story.

I'm willing to watch a show that repeats a good story- if the execution is well done. But this iteration the execution was terrible. The animation was far poorer than last weeks, the comparison is striking if you watch them back to back.

Now I actually liked K-On- but Haruhi is not K-On and you can't treat Haruhi like K-On, or animate it like K-On. It just doesn't work.

Well at least I can enjoy the characters right? Except no, I can't, because the characters seemed like superficial caricatures of themselves instead of the usual complexity. It's like the characters were... I don't know, playing some set role rather than being individuals in a story.

The only reason it got a 4 from me instead of a 1 is because of the boldness of doing this (a repeat of the bad ending), and because I thought some of the attempts to invoke deja vu were interesting, and would have been effective if they had been executed right. Which they weren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
FYI, the animation director was Hiroyuki Takahashi, who directed the animation of episode 10 of K-On and did the musical instrument design for that show.

But then again, that doesn't really tell us anything of value. The Animation Directors for all of these new Haruhi episodes also did some of the episodes of K-On. Futoshi Nishiya did episode 2 of K-On, and Mariko Takahashi did episodes 3 & 8. Plus, the person who directed the animation of last week's episode also directed the animation of first new Haruhi episode this season (which, if I recall, people didn't really like?). So... guilt by association in this case doesn't mean all that much.
Whether the director of this weeks episode had anything to do with K-On interests me little- as I thought K-On was a decent show (for the light fluff that it was).

A far more interesting question in my mind is: Did this week's episode director have anything to do with Haruhi in the first season?

Because, to quote myself, this is my summary of what is seriously wrong with this episode:

Quote:
It all seemed over acted, and lacking any of the subtlety and depth that Haruhi usually has. I think that overall describes this iteration. It was directed by someone who does not understand Haruhi. Instead of realizing that the brash abrasive over-the-top personality conceals more important subtle depths, this director accepted Haruhi at face value- and by giving her that depiction, short changed us all.
I felt like I was watching a cheap knockoff copy of Haruhi, rather than the real thing.
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Old 2009-07-03, 08:34   Link #263
espeon93
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If every loop Nagato buys another Mask at the Bon dance, i bet that her room will be full of masks and she uses them as counter :@)
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Old 2009-07-03, 08:37   Link #264
Sackett
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Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
They said in the second episode they've realized the reality of the loop over 8,000 times in the second episode. Why you'd believe this is the first time they've realized this make no sense whatsoever.
They did? I don't remember that last episode.

In fact I was expecting that to be one of the differences this episode, was for Kyon to discover exactly how many times they had repeated the loop.

I thought that would be a way to add greater despair and gravity to the situation.
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Old 2009-07-03, 08:39   Link #265
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by espeon93 View Post
If every loop Nagato buys another Mask at the Bon dance, i bet that her room will be full of masks and she uses them as counter :@)
Except her purchase of the mask reset
.

Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2009-07-03 at 08:59.
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Old 2009-07-03, 08:41   Link #266
Slick_rick
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I really enjoyed this. I wasn't planning on picking up this till a few more episodes pasted but after I heard what they did I decided to check it out.

There was a lot of subtle differences between the episodes. Them wearing different clothing, buying different yukata's, standing in different places and sitting in different seats. It gave you a sense of them striving unconsciously to find change in an unchanging world. You have to wonder about Nagato too as she too seemed to be craving this change. How many different masks do you think she has bought? We have people in this thread whining like a 5 year old after watching a similar episode 3 times but Nagato has watched it 15499 times. It really drives the point home. I don't think 2 episodes or 3 would have made the viewer appreciate the message the show was going for. Some people won't appreciate it at all and others won't even get it to begin with.

Few others animes would have the courage to do this but Haruhi is so popular it can afford to take risks. I think it's fairly interesting and original. Most times when people complain about a show being cliche they just complaining that they actually wanted a different cliche to happen. Here we are presented a fairly original approach and people are throwing a tantrum. It just goes to show people actually want cliches not matter how much they profess they want originality. Originality is a bigger risk because you don't know how people will take it.
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Old 2009-07-03, 09:11   Link #267
Ikonomi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
They said in the second episode they've realized the reality of the loop over 8,000 times in the second episode. Why you'd believe this is the first time they've realized this make no sense whatsoever.
I assume you're replying to my post... To the best of my knowledge they didn't mention this in the second Endless Eight.
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Old 2009-07-03, 09:26   Link #268
Academus
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I can only think of this after reading this thread:

Quote:
Show them four, Haruhi will know her own.
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Old 2009-07-03, 09:35   Link #269
Jintor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Few others animes would have the courage to do this but Haruhi is so popular it can afford to take risks. I think it's fairly interesting and original. Most times when people complain about a show being cliche they just complaining that they actually wanted a different cliche to happen. Here we are presented a fairly original approach and people are throwing a tantrum. It just goes to show people actually want cliches not matter how much they profess they want originality. Originality is a bigger risk because you don't know how people will take it.
I think this perhaps is the most insightful comment in the thread so far.
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Old 2009-07-03, 09:47   Link #270
StarRodMan
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Oh man, KyoAni, I don't know if I love you or hate you. Right now, I think I love hating you.

This is some serious balls. They redrew everything; all this hard work is for the same episode just to drive Yuki's despair into us. That's hardcore.

I'll probably laugh this off once it's over. This is genius. Evil genius.
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Old 2009-07-03, 09:55   Link #271
OkamiNoKaze
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After thinking about it, much of our anxiety, and despair at seeing kyon fail comes from having to wait a week between episodes, I this arc would have a slightly less of an effect, if it was watched by a first time viewer, the whole arc in one go. I'm going to test this theory once the arc is complete, by watching this arc over with my sister who hasn't seen this arc yet, except for the first part.
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Old 2009-07-03, 10:53   Link #272
Ascaloth
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Episode [whatever] article is up:

[RIUVA] Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu (2009), Episode 14: Endless Eight

If I were to consider this episode in its own right? Probably a 6/10.

If I were to consider this episode as a statement of intent? 15,499/10 for sheer balls, no doubt about it.
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Old 2009-07-03, 10:54   Link #273
Arrnea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
They said in the second episode they've realized the reality of the loop over 8,000 times in the second episode. Why you'd believe this is the first time they've realized this make no sense whatsoever.
I didn't hear them say this, and in fact I was looking for it.
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Old 2009-07-03, 10:59   Link #274
Nochgo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
They said in the second episode they've realized the reality of the loop over 8,000 times in the second episode. Why you'd believe this is the first time they've realized this make no sense whatsoever.
I too have been looking for Nagato to say it, and rewatched the scene 2-3 times, and realized that Nagato didn't say it, or I am deaf.
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Old 2009-07-03, 11:05   Link #275
Lostdreams
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One explanation as to why this time loop has been going on forever. HARUHI LIED!!! SHE DIDN'T FINISH HER HW!!! The inevitable truth people.
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Old 2009-07-03, 11:18   Link #276
onmyouji
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Poor Yuki. I really sympathize for her.

Kyoani, please stop torturing her!

Spoiler:
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Old 2009-07-03, 11:31   Link #277
Voitan
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Guys, just because the studio was trying to be creative doesn't mean that their creativity is well done. This episode earns a 2/10, and I have never rated a Haruhi episode below a 7/10. I'm just going to act like this episode never existed in the first place.

I find it incredibly stupid that they had to rehash the same idea all over again. We already got the point that it seems to be a hopeless situation, in which we just want to get out of this recursion of time. I suppose what really bothers me is that this offered no extra material. Even though last episode was also a recursion episode, we still got to see new things.
Exactly, I can tolerate a repeat of the situation, but throw in something dramatic that advances character development in a way we haven't ALREADY SEEN.

We got that Yuki is bored out of her mind from episode 3, and that Kyon is sympathetic to her plight, but he hardly does much to ask so much as how she's handling, like "hey, can I do anything for you?" or just spontaneously do something nice to alleviate her despair etc... Perhaps such as insisting he pay for the mask for Yuki, and then grow on that direction like a chia pet.

Maybe Kyon should actually TRY Itsuki's suggestion, novel readers and general Haruhi fans would go ballistic with excitement!

So much potential for new and advancing directions for the characters and the series, but we got a repeat of episode 3. Same insights, same events.
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Old 2009-07-03, 11:35   Link #278
typhonsentra
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Originally Posted by Nochgo View Post
I too have been looking for Nagato to say it, and rewatched the scene 2-3 times, and realized that Nagato didn't say it, or I am deaf.
You're right, he cuts her off before she can continue to that part. I had reread that portion of the story recently and I guess I inserted it in. That said, the end where he goes on about the "Deja Vu, more intense than before" when he's panicking about letting her leave pretty well serves to tell us that he's figured this out before, doesn't it?
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Old 2009-07-03, 11:56   Link #279
daisekihan
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It's really surprising that there are people saying this is bold and experimental, and even that KyoAn was being "courageous". I understand your line of reasoning---the viewer's frustration is the character's frustration. I won't argue authorial (as in Tanigawa's) intent here, since that's apparently not important. But I will ask, is the alternate that KyoAn has given us more interesting because it isn't what we expected? Granted, if it had been three episodes, I might have thought it so, since it would have been three somewhat distinct episodes, the first being the first iteration, the second being representative of all those in between, and the final one granting release. But no matter how you look at it, this is the same episode as the last, with different angles and costumes. Kyon's frustration and anxiety is at exactly the same level. If, when this arc is over, one went back and rewatched the episodes while omitting either this one or the last, would anything really be lost?

Finally, although I admit there are people who will post things like "wtf kyoani? epic troll is epic," I don't think it's fair to characterize anyone who finds this experiment in story pacing to be less than an artistic success as whining five-year-olds. Like I said, I can understand why KyoAni did this and I can understand why some people might like it, I just don't.
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Old 2009-07-03, 12:00   Link #280
Proto
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with different angles and costumes
Are you aware that those different angles and costumes cost hundreds of thousands of yens to animate? Well, just so you factor in that they are doing it just for the laughs, being lazy, or anything like that (or maybe its just those all at the same time, who knows?)
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