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Old 2009-07-03, 07:18   Link #261
Tyrone Biggums
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Wow...same. I'm thinking we need a summ.

Spoiler for Chap 92:
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Last edited by Tyrone Biggums; 2009-07-03 at 07:50.
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Old 2009-07-03, 11:29   Link #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Biggums View Post
Wow...same. I'm thinking we need a summ.

Spoiler for Chap 92:
the people don't but they are wondering how someone that young knows the Black Wing and don't worry about koinzell, he has main character shield.

Also that look on Rosen faces, the guy is about to lose it.
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Old 2009-07-03, 13:54   Link #263
Tyrone Biggums
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lol he's going to have a heart attack right when he's about to reveal Konz's background...watch!

Spoiler for 92:
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Old 2009-07-03, 14:05   Link #264
Xellos-_^
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lol he's going to have a heart attack right when he's about to reveal Konz's background...watch!

Spoiler for 92:
he was there, Rozen is the guy i keep a eye on as someone getting ready to explode.
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Old 2009-07-03, 15:53   Link #265
Majek
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Yeah, he's been passive for too long.

I wonder what i'll do to pass the next 14 days to keep my mind of this. XDD
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Old 2009-07-07, 04:18   Link #266
shmaster
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Read up to the latest chapter....

Maybe it is just me, but I have a bad feeling about Konz being less revenge obessed. I'll be feeling very uncomfrotable if he just turn into a justice do gooder or something. The worst thing that can be done to a dark hero is to clear his name....
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Old 2009-07-07, 09:16   Link #267
Tyrone Biggums
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Who said he was a dark hero? He isn't bad. He isn't evil.

He is just going around killing the guys who killed him.

Done.

He saved the Frontier, he saved that Village from Barestar's troops. I'd say if anything...he is just straight up Gangsta.
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Old 2009-07-07, 09:31   Link #268
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Hero means doing good, even if you place "dark" in front of it.
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Old 2009-07-07, 09:47   Link #269
Tyrone Biggums
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I'd say Alucard is a Dark Hero. Pretty much the worst of the worst fighting for the hell of it against the bad.

Konz...not so much.
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Old 2009-07-07, 09:48   Link #270
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Well, I won't argue with nitpicking =P
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Old 2009-07-07, 09:53   Link #271
Tyrone Biggums
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lol just passing time at work.
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Old 2009-07-07, 15:22   Link #272
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Biggums View Post
Who said he was a dark hero? He isn't bad. He isn't evil.

He is just going around killing the guys who killed him.

Done.

He saved the Frontier, he saved that Village from Barestar's troops. I'd say if anything...he is just straight up Gangsta.
He's also killed dozens, maybe hundreds of innocents, all for the sake of his vengeance. And I mean directly - I'm not even counting the civil unrest he's stirring.

No one knows it better than he does. That's why he feels so hesitant sometimes, that's why he feels so guilty.

I think that's what I like about him - he knows what he has to do for his vengeance, but he doesn't pretend it's right. But neither does he let it stop him.
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Old 2009-07-07, 18:48   Link #273
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He's also killed dozens, maybe hundreds of innocents, all for the sake of his vengeance. And I mean directly - I'm not even counting the civil unrest he's stirring.

No one knows it better than he does. That's why he feels so hesitant sometimes, that's why he feels so guilty.

I think that's what I like about him - he knows what he has to do for his vengeance, but he doesn't pretend it's right. But neither does he let it stop him.
W00t? I think you've been reading a different manga. Or your definition of innocents includes unscrupelous henchmen who enjoy wanton murder. Koinzell hasn't killed any innocents so far except for a couple of mercy killings like with Ato's brother and those elf chicks that got experimented on. If you read properly you should notice that so far he has always refrained from killing those misguided ones who are merely loyal to the wrong person.

He feels guilty because he's upsetting the realm he fought for and the emperor he believes in and that killing the seven while just will inevitably lead to suffering. So far there are no innocnets on his conscience.
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Old 2009-07-08, 00:32   Link #274
Sol Falling
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Uh...crashing an airship into the ranks of Glenn's army just to break through? Latest (scanlated, all this raw talk is spoiling me, not that I really mind or anything) chapter? I dunno about 'reading properly', but I don't think you can just make a generalized assumption that all the other henchmen Koinzell has killed are 'unscrupulous' either.
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Old 2009-07-08, 04:18   Link #275
kokolores
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Uh...crashing an airship into the ranks of Glenn's army just to break through? Latest (scanlated, all this raw talk is spoiling me, not that I really mind or anything) chapter? I dunno about 'reading properly', but I don't think you can just make a generalized assumption that all the other henchmen Koinzell has killed are 'unscrupulous' either.
So? I wouldn't call them innocents either. They were all trying to kill him afterall. People who try to kill other people are per definition not innocent. If they get killed in return they get their just deserts. And the guys he killed before were all shown to be terrorizing civilians if I remember correctly. And look at all the people he has spared. Rosen, that Senator's daughter, Ikfes, even those guys that were trying to encircle him in the previous chapter he only cut their weapons when he could have killed them just as easily.
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Old 2009-07-08, 08:29   Link #276
Tyrone Biggums
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Crashing that ship into the army was good strategy. And ANYONE who would join the army and pick up a sword I would not classify as innocent. They should be ready to fight and die. They are fighting a war ya know? Shit happens.

Now the citizens of the town that were attacked by soldiers, those were innocents. And Konz protected them (although indirectly) while the army was pillaging.

And he has avoided killing loyal and good subjects of the Emperor. As someone said above, he didn't kill Rosen and Ifkes.
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Old 2009-07-08, 08:56   Link #277
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It was not indirectly at all, he jumped in because the citizens were being terrorized by the army who were now little more then animals.
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Old 2009-07-08, 09:42   Link #278
Tyrone Biggums
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True. I worded that wrong. Meant to say that it wasn't as if he heard about the army attacking the town and came, he was already in the town fighting and was in a position to help.

But yeah. Konz is the man.
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Old 2009-07-08, 14:40   Link #279
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by kokolores View Post
W00t? I think you've been reading a different manga. Or your definition of innocents includes unscrupelous henchmen who enjoy wanton murder.
It doesn't, but it does include soldiers who do their best to protect their country and its inhabitants with discipline and professionalism. Koinzell has repeatedly praised Glen's men as people he'd have been proud to serve with. The same with most soldiers he's met, except when they were thugs, like Barestar's invading army. But while he's spared those good people when he could, in the end he dropped a ship on them to get at Glen.

Quote:
Koinzell hasn't killed any innocents so far except for a couple of mercy killings like with Ato's brother and those elf chicks that got experimented on. If you read properly you should notice that so far he has always refrained from killing those misguided ones who are merely loyal to the wrong person.
When it didn't get in the way of his vengeance, yes. But that ended when he dropped a ship on just that sort of people.

Quote:
He feels guilty because he's upsetting the realm he fought for and the emperor he believes in and that killing the seven while just will inevitably lead to suffering. So far there are no innocnets on his conscience.
Except the aforementioned soldiers.

Quote:
Crashing that ship into the army was good strategy. And ANYONE who would join the army and pick up a sword I would not classify as innocent.
That'd be highly hypocritical of him. Asheritt joined an army too - does that make him guilty? Does that make what happened to him ok? Of course not. He was murdered, just as he murdered those soldiers whose only crime was to be in the way and try to do their duty - just as he tried to do his, twenty years ago.

Quote:
They should be ready to fight and die. They are fighting a war ya know? Shit happens.
Go murder a cop or a soldier, and try to explain that to the courts. And it's not a war - it's one guy who's decided to kill 7 famous officials of the country he's in.

Quote:
Now the citizens of the town that were attacked by soldiers, those were innocents. And Konz protected them (although indirectly) while the army was pillaging.
That doesn't give him the right to murder innocents.

Quote:
And he has avoided killing loyal and good subjects of the Emperor. As someone said above, he didn't kill Rosen and Ifkes.
Yeah, so he hasn't killed any named innocent. Great comfort to all those unnamed widows and orphans he's made.


Bottom line, I'm not saying he's definitely wrong. Something definitely has to be done about the seven "heroes". But his actions are far from being 100% good.
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Old 2009-07-08, 14:47   Link #280
Tyrone Biggums
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Go murder a cop or a soldier, and try to explain that to the courts. And it's not a war - it's one guy who's decided to kill 7 famous officials of the country he's in.
Well I'm pretty sure I would be arrested if I killed a cop.

But if your in a war. And I shot another Soldier. I doubt I would be arrested. Of course they would be shooting me back but isn't that what war is?

All I'm saying is if your man enough to join an Army. You should be ready for the worst. That's what they train for ain't it? To kill. And if you can kill someone then you should be ready to be killed yourself.

And Konz accepts that he'll atone for his crimes...once he's done.

PS. I wouldn't call dropping a ship on ENEMY soldiers murder. If you call that murder then what would you call it when he was protecting the villagers from the soldiers? Was he murdering them too? I'd classify murder as killing an unarmed opponent. All those soldiers that got draped were ready for a battle, they followed their leader, they were doing their JOB. And in the process of doing their job they got killed.

And couldn't it be classified as a war now? Country vs. Konz. No?
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Last edited by Tyrone Biggums; 2009-07-08 at 15:02.
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