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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 2 Rating
Perfect 10 27 12.80%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 63 29.86%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 56 26.54%
7 out of 10 : Good 33 15.64%
6 out of 10 : Average 19 9.00%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 6 2.84%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 1.42%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.47%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 1.42%
Voters: 211. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-07-08, 17:01   Link #61
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sento View Post
LOL yeah, because you were really attached to the characters at this point in the novel, right?

That's not true. When I was reading EP1 first twilight, I wasn't caring about the characters, not yet. I was shiting bricks. EP1 didn't have real character indepth even in the novel, aside Battler, Natsuhi and Maria. I think that they will pull of character developement when they need it. Shannon and George for example, EP2 is when they shine.
I'm sorry, but there were largely room for people to be attached to Kyrie, Rudolf and Rosa. Especially Kyrie considering how she was portrayed as a caring but composed and intelligent adult, without being plagued by the money issue.
Episode 1 also gave a lot of important introduction regarding the servants (who would ever expect Gohda to be LIKE THIS with the anime alone?) and the adults in general (you did mention Natsuhi and still, despite being a big focus of ep1, they didn't give her the proper development she had with Krauss and Jessica).

A lot of minor details were actually important as I and Rias said. There are various complementary development accross the episodes: you just cannot ignore the medium ones, just because you just want to jump on the "characters of the episode" syndrome. Omitting a detail will make further ones nonsensical (the whole "colorblindness" in Higurashi is the prime example of that).

Quote:
And the whole "movements are exaggerated" thing. Jeez, in the novel is exactly the same, re-read the scene please. You got the same Hideyoshi's "It's a devil, a devil!!" and Battler even screaming more than that. Ryuukishi's tales are always "over the top" in that stuff. I don't find it bad, it's supposed to be that way.
You didn't understand what Archer meant behind it. What was exaggerated was HOW hideyoshi and Battler expressed their horror. In the VN, they "simply" vented their horror by screaming. In the anime, Hideyoshi suddenly stands up and stares at the ones outside of the shed for unknown reason. Battler WAITED for the whole thing to be said to START freaking about it and hunging his head once before screaming out loud.

That is not a content problem but an execution problem.
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Old 2009-07-08, 17:02   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sento View Post
LOL yeah, because you were really attached to the characters at this point in the novel, right?

That's not true. When I was reading EP1 first twilight, I wasn't caring about the characters, not yet. I was shiting bricks. EP1 didn't have real character indepth even in the novel, aside Battler, Natsuhi and Maria. I think that they will pull of character developement when they need it. Shannon and George for example, EP2 is when they shine.

And the whole "movements are exaggerated" thing. Jeez, in the novel is exactly the same, re-read the scene please. You got the same Hideyoshi's "It's a devil, a devil!!" and Battler even screaming more than that. Ryuukishi's tales are always "over the top" in that stuff. I don't find it bad, it's supposed to be that way.
When I said that "movements are exaggerated", I meant the actual movements. Battler just kneels over after holding his umbrella, like if he's a some giant ham. It just reeks of play-acting, which it shouldn't be.

I expected a bit too much from that scene since the manga managed to do it very well, I suppose. Here it's just "wow, these people just don't care that much about it, do they?"
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Old 2009-07-08, 17:06   Link #63
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Originally Posted by bigemperor View Post
WHAT A HORRIBLE BGM THEY PUT WHEN MARIA WAS READING THE LETTER i can't believe they cut the awesome bgm from the visual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30kl0eCtbcU.
I like the episode but i think they ruin the first twilight, goldenslaugther was very badly used they cut the episode in the best part of the bgm, what a shame.
TRUE THAT. I was so disappointed when they replaced 犯行の予告状読み上げ (ラック眼力)... This is one of my favorite BGM tracks from Ep1, and coincidentally one of my favorite moments...

Golden Slaugterer just didn't have the same impact... It was probably the timing.
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Old 2009-07-08, 17:07   Link #64
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Just watched the raw.

Better than ep1-1 but :
- No explanation about Kyrie not being Battler's mom.
- Natsuhi's relationship with Krauss and Jessica is skipped.
- I didn't really like how the first twilight was done. Battler's sreams are lacking, and as Klashikari said, I didn't like his lag before freaking out. All in all, it wasn't as horrific as it should have been.
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Old 2009-07-08, 17:12   Link #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I'm sorry, but there were largely room for people to be attached to Kyrie, Rudolf and Rosa. Especially Kyrie considering how she was portrayed as a caring but composed and intelligent adult, without being plagued by the money issue.
Kyrie I can understand because she had that strong talk with Battler and because she's more or less the foundation of Battler's reasoning techniques, but I never saw myself being attached to Rudolf or Rosa. Especially not Rudolf with Battler being the narrator most of the time and not really putting him in a positive light.

I have to agree, that apart from Shannon and Kyrie no one's death in the EP1 1st Twilight really made me 'sad'. I was more like "Oh finally it's getting interesting" (which is probably why the anime staff decided to fast forward to this part. Most people are more interested in Day 2. Especially in Episode I when the characters haven't grown on us that much yet.)

It was actually around the fifth twilight that I started to feel for the characters. Can't wait for the later ones in the anime
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Old 2009-07-08, 17:16   Link #66
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My only complaint about the episode is that, as others have said, Battler's freak out at the end was animated/timed awkwardly.

Besides that, I really enjoyed the episode. Personally, I liked the way they handled the gold ignot scene. Like someone else in this thread said, really, the whole point of that scene is "the gold is real?!"

Yes, another point of that scene is Natsuhi's feelings on being kept in the dark, but they already established that Natsuhi was generally ill-used in other scenes...


As a side note, Battler calls Kyrie by her given name instead of "mom" right? I think that sort of implies she not really his mom.....

But eh well, I'm just happy to see this stuff animated. Regardless of the pacings *shrugs*.

As a side note, I'm starting to think that people who've read the VN and first time viewers really should get separate threads. It can't be fun for anime-only watchers who enjoy the show to come into these threads and see "OMG RAGE!" so much...


EDIT- oh yeah, one more liiiitle complaint about the episode. Maria's crazy face, though I assume it was done as a sort of fan-service to the Higurashi fans ("woo hoo! Crazy faces!" ) It seemed a little akward for her to hold that crazy face during the entirety of her letter reading. Made me think she needed glasses from all the eye strain or something .
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Old 2009-07-08, 17:24   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovelysan View Post
As a side note, I'm starting to think that people who've read the VN and first time viewers really should get separate threads. It can't be fun for anime-only watchers who enjoy the show to come into these threads and see "OMG RAGE!" so much...
This was never done on AS and it will never be. For starters, it won't prevent people to actually complain without prior knowledge. The thing is that such kind of threads are created as a purpose for anyone to discuss over the said episode, regardless if their opinion is positive or not.
As long as some comments aren't abusive (like "this is shit/the best), all opinions are welcomed. Otherwise, why putting available any score lower than 7 in the poll anyway?

Furthermore, discussing with the good and the bad actually help for both sides to temper their own opinion on various aspects. It isn't like an anime episode should be perfectly great or void of redeemable points.
With another note, that would also be a problem for some members that want to actually share their opinion with first time viewers, without being overly positive or negative.

Finally, if some discussion on a forum dampen the enjoyment of watching an anime series, I believe it would be preferable not to read any forum unless any "negative comment" is prohibited in the said forum.
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Old 2009-07-08, 17:25   Link #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I'm sorry, but there were largely room for people to be attached to Kyrie, Rudolf and Rosa. Especially Kyrie considering how she was portrayed as a caring but composed and intelligent adult, without being plagued by the money issue.
Episode 1 also gave a lot of important introduction regarding the servants (who would ever expect Gohda to be LIKE THIS with the anime alone?) and the adults in general (you did mention Natsuhi and still, despite being a big focus of ep1, they didn't give her the proper development she had with Krauss and Jessica).

A lot of minor details were actually important as I and Rias said. There are various complementary development accross the episodes: you just cannot ignore the medium ones, just because you just want to jump on the "characters of the episode" syndrome. Omitting a detail will make further ones nonsensical (the whole "colorblindness" in Higurashi is the prime example of that).
Spoiler:

Last edited by Klashikari; 2009-07-08 at 17:31. Reason: Spoiler Removed
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Old 2009-07-08, 17:34   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sento View Post
Spoiler:
1) I'm sorry, but the total lack of antics and screentime hardly give me the same "attachment" effect that Kyrie gave me in the anime. The same goes for Rudolf who gave a lot of snarky and wisecrack comments here and there, be it for Battler or even during the "intellectual" discussion. Such minor details do forge characters personality which give an actual depth. They are essentially the same characters between the medium, but not on the same extent. That is also the reason why I felt that Natsuhi's scene being cut like that really sever a big occasion to raise the problem within her family (which cannot be explained later on, expect if you forcefully point this matter out of the blue).

2) I never said we can judge the whole series that early. Right now, all the comments I have made were pointing the CURRENT problem this adaption has, no more no less.
I will be happy if they just use a proper pace for the later Episodes, but for the time being, hoping this doesn't prevent me to have a sour aftertaste with the first 2 episodes we have been served right now.
As a piece of my own opinion though: I cannot consider Ep1-4 being easier to adapt than the first 6 arcs of Higurashi. Far from it.
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Old 2009-07-08, 17:46   Link #70
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@Klashikari:
I think the biggest problem I have with your opinion is that you seem to have the opinion that what was in the anime until now was not only 'not good enough for your taste', but not good in any way and a disgrace to the original work and that no viewer can enjoy this series because they don't understand it.

But isn't it true, that the anime adaption works now as a completely standalone medium? The anime viewers are not required to look anything up in the novel so far.
Of course there were things, like the gold ingot in this episode, which were a bit rushed compared to the novel, but on there own, they worked.

What you seem to have expected was a 1:1 adaption of what the novel served, which would have exposed anime only viewers to approximately 2-3 episodes of 'people running around in a mansion and being mean to each other' to break it down to the simple facts what most people I know thought of Umineko before it started to...start.
Most anime viewers (not even all novel readers, myself included) want to see again and again how bad most siblings treat the servants, how much they want the money...I think every person old enough to watch Umineko knows the standard formula.

The anime is NOT the visual novel in motion, it is an anime adaption and in that way also an interpretation of the original work.

And in that manner I really liked episode 2, it featured what had to be in the episode. The only thing that really bothered me was, that we had no visual clue as to where Eva and Hideyoshi were when all other characters were shown around midnight.
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Old 2009-07-08, 17:51   Link #71
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Spoiler for ep1-2:

Overall, I think EP1-2 was great. Considering the space in the game they had to cover in one EP, I don't think there is anything they could have done to cover it better. ...Except Maria's letter-reading face, which was ridiculous.
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Old 2009-07-08, 17:53   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chounokoe View Post
@Klashikari:
I think the biggest problem I have with your opinion is that you seem to have the opinion that what was in the anime until now was not only 'not good enough for your taste', but not good in any way and a disgrace to the original work and that no viewer can enjoy this series because they don't understand it.

But isn't it true, that the anime adaption works now as a completely standalone medium? The anime viewers are not required to look anything up in the novel so far.
Of course there were things, like the gold ingot in this episode, which were a bit rushed compared to the novel, but on there own, they worked.

What you seem to have expected was a 1:1 adaption of what the novel served, which would have exposed anime only viewers to approximately 2-3 episodes of 'people running around in a mansion and being mean to each other' to break it down to the simple facts what most people I know thought of Umineko before it started to...start.
Most anime viewers (not even all novel readers, myself included) want to see again and again how bad most siblings treat the servants, how much they want the money...I think every person old enough to watch Umineko knows the standard formula.

The anime is NOT the visual novel in motion, it is an anime adaption and in that way also an interpretation of the original work.

And in that manner I really liked episode 2, it featured what had to be in the episode. The only thing that really bothered me was, that we had no visual clue as to where Eva and Hideyoshi were when all other characters were shown around midnight.
I find this argument pretty ironic, since right now this is pretty much two episodes of people running around in a mansion and being mean to each other, while the VN and the manga at least built up some sort of character dynamic amongst the family members that wasn't centered around the family fortune. Now they're just being mean to each other all the time because they want money.
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Old 2009-07-08, 17:55   Link #73
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Originally Posted by Archer View Post
I find this argument pretty ironic, since right now this is pretty much two episodes of people running around in a mansion and being mean to each other, while the VN and the manga at least built up some sort of character dynamic amongst the family members that wasn't centered around the family fortune. Now they're just being mean to each other all the time because they want money.
hmm well isn't it true? aren't they mean to each other because of the inheritance really?
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Old 2009-07-08, 17:56   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chounokoe View Post
@Klashikari:
I think the biggest problem I have with your opinion is that you seem to have the opinion that what was in the anime until now was not only 'not good enough for your taste', but not good in any way and a disgrace to the original work and that no viewer can enjoy this series because they don't understand it.
You are putting words to my opinion, that's all I can say then.
Aside of stating possible problems that will surge in the future, by any means I didn't say "this is absolutely unwatchable" or totally tasteless. All the elements posted earlier (especially with my reply to squirrelord) were only entitled to MY opinion. I obviously implied the adaptation is nowhere close to my taste, but did I really start bashing it, saying it had no redeemable point or isn't enjoyable for others? I doubt it.

However, I certainly cannot agree with the whole statement that "anime is anime and VN is VN" issue: the purpose of an adaptation becomes void if you just don't convey the same message (that doesn't mean you cannot use another way: for example, I didn't have any problem that it was Genji who was looking for Natsuhi with Eva right after the discussion with Kinzo).

Quote:
But isn't it true, that the anime adaption works now as a completely standalone medium? The anime viewers are not required to look anything up in the novel so far.
Of course there were things, like the gold ingot in this episode, which were a bit rushed compared to the novel, but on there own, they worked.
That's actually the whole problem: an adaptation should be a standalone, not needing anything from its material. Because of this, cuts of unecessary elements (such like Maria waking up everyone on 5th October) aren't a problem at all. The problem lies in actual execution that leave a lot of information out of reach for the anime viewers.

Quote:
What you seem to have expected was a 1:1 adaption of what the novel served, which would have exposed anime only viewers to approximately 2-3 episodes of 'people running around in a mansion and being mean to each other' to break it down to the simple facts what most people I know thought of Umineko before it started to...start.
Did I complain to ALL cuts done in the series? no. So far they didn't do major cuts in Episode 1, but I did complain because of the lack of transition which left things to be desired.
And unlike what you have indicated, putting more of the cut scenes would certainly not make the whole "money affair" redundant. To begin with, they only kept this kind of "serious" content, they did no include the "fluffy family" effect that the cousins and the adults have prior the ugly revelation.

I certainly cannot believe they would be able to insert so many chatters in Episode 1 and 2, for sake of pace as well. You are again putting words in my own opinion.

In the end, it is much ado about nothing: some people do see a problem with some missing elements (SOME, not ALL) some aren't. And both sides agree it is a difficult story to adapt. So where is the problem? Why would one side start complaining over the other that isn't agreeing?
I certainly don't mind if people like how it is adapted, actually I'm happy that DOES entertain people so that this adaptation wouldn't be in vein. It doesn't however change my own opinion and entertainement of this show (by no mean I intended to force people to feel the same, and I believe the words I used reflect that idea). That's all. Convincing people that this adaptation isn't good isn't my purpose but expressing my opinion is the same as others being satisfied by it. End of the story.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2009-07-08 at 18:12.
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Old 2009-07-08, 18:22   Link #75
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Oh wow, deja vu is back here again. I pray and I pray that it isn't going to be like Haruhi but yet, I still get the same feeling as I did watching the first episode. It's not a good feeling, not even a hopeful feeling. It is more a despair feeling void of emotions...

Spoiler:
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Old 2009-07-08, 18:24   Link #76
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Could it be there are saving some of those character relations for later episodes because they aren't really "need to know" just yet. It will effect the story later, but is not a critical thing to know just yet.

Also brings up an interesting question: how much of the relationships were known in the First Episode? and how many of them really were needed for the plot of that Episode verses say later Episodes? I a non-self contained media, one doesn't reviel all the information at the start, bur slips out things over time as it is needed. In a VN where the story must be self contained in case it doesn't sell (especially the first part of it) all needed character details are given.

But as we've seen, not everything is always how it seems in mysteries.
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Old 2009-07-08, 18:51   Link #77
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I didn't think the second episode would end with the 6 murders but given the pace of the show so far I think it was done well. Now they can begin discussing the mysteries which is what Umineko is all about.
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Old 2009-07-08, 19:32   Link #78
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After seeing the episode, I sort of liked it. Keeps a nice mysterious feel when you have no idea what is going on.

And Hocchan can do creepy things with her voice.

EDIT: Oh and those were clips from those Higurashi parody bits from the DVDs. I recognized that they used three of them (including the one of "Chiaki Kon" (hornless Hanyuu)).
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Old 2009-07-08, 19:52   Link #79
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
After seeing the episode, I sort of liked it. Keeps a nice mysterious feel when you have no idea what is going on.

And Hocchan can do creepy things with her voice.

EDIT: Oh and those were clips from those Higurashi parody bits from the DVDs. I recognized that they used three of them (including the one of "Chiaki Kon" (hornless Hanyuu)).
i recognized the one extra of rika groping mion
i need to be quiet >x<
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Old 2009-07-08, 20:06   Link #80
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Spoiler for Comments on episode two:
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