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Old 2009-07-08, 14:52   Link #281
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Go murder a cop or a soldier, and try to explain that to the courts. And it's not a war - it's one guy who's decided to kill 7 famous officials of the country he's in.
Is in, but no longer (officially speaking) part there of. Regardless he named himself a criminal countless times, there is no point in arguing.
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Old 2009-07-08, 18:18   Link #282
Majek
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Ahahahaha Anh_Minh How can you call soldiers innocent ? Just because you know nothing about them, yet they are now innocent victims? It's like i'd say they were all hateful bastards, raping and pillaging all over the empire. You got any proof to claim differently?
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Old 2009-07-08, 19:49   Link #283
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Man this manga is under-rated.
I like the storyline and everything...
I wish they would hurry up and subbed the other chapters instead of doing them week by week...
I be goin nuts over here trying to figure out whats going on by looking the picture (since I cant read Japanese)
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Old 2009-07-08, 19:54   Link #284
kakakka
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If they scanlate all of it now, we'll have to wait longer for next release.
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Old 2009-07-09, 00:42   Link #285
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Quote:
That doesn't give him the right to murder innocents.
There aren't really anyone in thsi world who are 100% innocent now, are there?

Certainly not armed soldiers.

The way I see it, Koinz wants vengeance on his former brethren, that is his primary purpose. He does not want to kill 'innocents' as you put it or anyone other then the 7 heroes, however he won't let that stop him from his goal. He will try his best to avoid hurting innocents, but he will not stop just because of this. Fair enough, no?

Personally, I don't usually condone vengeance (that is why I am against capital punishment), however it is a manga series, and the 7 heroes have committed rather horrendous acts, atrocities if you like. They haven ot been good leaders, to say the least.

Quote:
And couldn't it be classified as a war now? Country vs. Konz. No?
Touche.
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Old 2009-07-09, 01:50   Link #286
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
There aren't really anyone in thsi world who are 100% innocent now, are there?

Certainly not armed soldiers.
And by that reasoning, Ascheritt wasn't wronged. He was an armed soldier, so it was perfectly ok to massacre him. Seriously, what kind of bullshit is that?

Quote:
The way I see it, Koinz wants vengeance on his former brethren, that is his primary purpose. He does not want to kill 'innocents' as you put it or anyone other then the 7 heroes, however he won't let that stop him from his goal. He will try his best to avoid hurting innocents, but he will not stop just because of this. Fair enough, no?
I agree that it's his mindset. What I disagree with is the opinion of posters here that he hasn't done anything bad.

Quote:
Personally, I don't usually condone vengeance (that is why I am against capital punishment), however it is a manga series, and the 7 heroes have committed rather horrendous acts, atrocities if you like. They haven ot been good leaders, to say the least.
Depends. Glen may have been a good leader - the Knights of the Seven Lances are certainly a credit to him. Except Ikfes. Then again, he wasn't able to do anything about his companions' excesses, so it's hard to say.


Quote:
Touche.
"Country vs 1 person" isn't a war by any reasonable definition. Not even a civil war.
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Old 2009-07-09, 02:06   Link #287
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
"Country vs 1 person" isn't a war by any reasonable definition. Not even a civil war.
You are in denial. The most popular meaning is not the global scope of said definition.
Quote:
War is a reciprocated, armed conflict, between two or more non-congruous entities, aimed at reorganising a subjectively designed, geo-politically desired result.
In Archriits' case he has the princess of the barbaric borders among other representatives of the people by his side; the free city even declared allegiance to him did they not. He more then clarifies even if we push the definition to only the state vs state specifics.

The awful contradiction in your argument is that only one side can be wrong and one side right; so if Archriit is wrong then the soldiers are the good guys, and if Archriit is in the right then the soldiers are the bad guys. That's what it sounds to me you're making it out to be.
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Old 2009-07-09, 02:48   Link #288
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What? It's not 'Country vs. Koinzell'. It's 'Koinzell vs. the Seven Heroes'. Koinzell bears no ill will towards the soldiers, and they have committed no offense against him. Whatever vapid definition of 'innocents' you guys are making up to try to paint the soldiers as 'bad' isn't the point: Koinzell has nothing against the country, hell he's probably even still loyal to the Empire and the Emperor. Koinzell's vendetta against the Seven Heroes is a matter of personal vengeance against them specifically, so killing perfectly useful soldiers who are still loyal and can serve the empire is bad. The fact that Koinzell is doing it thus makes him a bad guy, even if just a little. Get it into your heads, Koinzell is not some perfect hero of justice.
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Old 2009-07-09, 03:00   Link #289
felix
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(its not us who are labeling 'perfect hero' and whatnot, its just you all who blame us of doing it)
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Old 2009-07-09, 04:00   Link #290
Majek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
And by that reasoning, Ascheritt wasn't wronged. He was an armed soldier, so it was perfectly ok to massacre him. Seriously, what kind of bullshit is that?
WTF? Are you insane? What kind of reasoning is this now???1
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Old 2009-07-09, 04:18   Link #291
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
(its not us who are labeling 'perfect hero' and whatnot, its just you all who blame us of doing it)
An utterly petty insistence on the idea of Koinzell never having spilt any 'innocent blood' suggests otherwise.
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Old 2009-07-09, 04:25   Link #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
An utterly petty insistence on the idea of Koinzell never having spilt any 'innocent blood' suggests otherwise.
Quote me, I can't seem to find those words.
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Old 2009-07-09, 04:49   Link #293
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
Quote me, I can't seem to find those words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
(its not us who are labeling 'perfect hero' and whatnot, its just you all who blame us of doing it)
Refer to bold.
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Old 2009-07-09, 04:53   Link #294
felix
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Meaning what?
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Old 2009-07-09, 05:44   Link #295
Sol Falling
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You denied claiming that Koinzell hasn't killed any innocents, but, as that has been the topic of discussion for the last page and a half, it is pretty clear which posts that comment was referring to.
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Old 2009-07-09, 06:21   Link #296
felix
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Its been the topic since you and Anh Minh keep putting words in other peoples mouths so as to fuel your arguments.
Nobody is denying Archriit hasn't killed/injured or attacked people that lets say were "non-evil". There's also no denying he would.

I don't even know why we need to bring this up, he said it himself for what its worth.

Quote whoever said this which you are discussing, so that we can stop debating hot air.
(somehow I'm suspecting you're just going to nitpick at some random comment but w/e)
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Old 2009-07-09, 06:36   Link #297
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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Originally Posted by kakakka View Post
If they scanlate all of it now, we'll have to wait longer for next release.
I'd rather have them all scanned and know when its released.
Then having them released and un-translated...
Its pretty much the same thing...
I feel like having them not translated is even worse because I be wanting to know whats be said...
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Old 2009-07-09, 07:43   Link #298
Tyrone Biggums
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
And by that reasoning, Ascheritt wasn't wronged. He was an armed soldier, so it was perfectly ok to massacre him. Seriously, what kind of bullshit is that?
Seriously...did you just say this?

It's a different story if you are killed by guys who you were fighting with since the beginning then killing ENEMY soldiers.

I'm pretty sure Konz and co. were by the book murdered. They were killed by their friends, their comrades, guys who fought with them.
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Old 2009-07-09, 08:11   Link #299
kakakka
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Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
I'd rather have them all scanned and know when its released.
Then having them released and un-translated...
Its pretty much the same thing...
I feel like having them not translated is even worse because I be wanting to know whats be said...
They're being translated though, you just need to be patient. And you're right, it's the same thing, but I prefer the rate the translation is doing now. And there's no comfort on thinking the raws are going to release it like they are releasing now. The provider might drop it now, and it's going to be months till we see another raw. I like to keep my updates per x week, not per x month.
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Old 2009-07-09, 08:27   Link #300
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
Its been the topic since you and Anh Minh keep putting words in other peoples mouths so as to fuel your arguments.
Nobody is denying Archriit hasn't killed/injured or attacked people that lets say were "non-evil". There's also no denying he would.

I don't even know why we need to bring this up, he said it himself for what its worth.

Quote whoever said this which you are discussing, so that we can stop debating hot air.
(somehow I'm suspecting you're just going to nitpick at some random comment but w/e)
lol, 'nobody', right. I guess approximately three quarters of the preceding discussion is really just 'random comments' to you. Just ignore me then, after all I'm entitled to make 'random comments' too, right?

People are flat out saying that anybody Koinzell kills deserves to die. Whether it's cause they're all 'unscrupulous' bastards who enjoy killing, or because they are supposedly enemy soldiers in Koinzell's 'war' against the empire, their deaths are all justifiable. Yourself included for engaging in that last sophistry, when Koinzell's vendetta clearly has nothing to do with the citizens of the empire (yes, soldiers are citizens too). My point is that there's nothing to justify--Koinzell's revenge has nothing to do with what is good or bad, so if you actually respect Koinzell's admission as a criminal, you'll stop trying to justify his actions for him.

And y'know, seriously. If you haven't made an argument that I'm disputing, then you can just ignore me like the rest of the 'random' comments, alright? Just because I've grouped you in as part of a general argument doesn't mean every line is addressed to you. If you never made the claim that Koinzell never killed innocents, then great, good for you, but to make the jump from 'not me' = 'nobody' is really ridiculous.
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