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Old 2009-07-11, 14:20   Link #101
Klashikari
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Kyrie's bottom jaw is still visible in the anime, and in the manga, that was the same (albeit, much more crude damage).
It is rather difficult to see how Rudolf and Rosa's faces look like in the anime.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2009-07-11 at 21:18.
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Old 2009-07-11, 16:21   Link #102
risingstar3110
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3 more points i want to make:

- It's not easy to move the 6 corpses in the middle of the rain.....
So i suspect someone had something that can lure the 6 ppl to that shed, and kill them with poison gas or so. That would be the easiest way.
For Rudolf's, Kyrie's, Rosa and Krauss to be lured to that place in the middle of the night, there could be only 3 things: Kinzo's ring, the map that lead to the gold, or tools to "dig" them up. But none of them have comfortable clothes on, so the last option may less likely.
If it's really so, then Shannon and Gohda are most likely just the substitution since Eva and Hideoshi "went to sleep" early. Or maybe they were asked to get the key to that shed.
So why they have to hasten and rush up silently in the middle of the night.... no clues yet

- There are rain, and there are that complex ritual sign drawing, can the culprit wait for the rain to end , then drawn it there with all the corpses inside? Or was it a prank that coincidentally in the wrong moment?

- Why some of the faces were destroyed? Was it simply brutal acts, or to conceal something?
The 6 missings and there are 6 dead body so unless there are more than 18 ppl on the islands, there is no reasons to conceal the death's identity. Maybe it's to conceal something inside the shed because ppl will wish to stay as far as possible from the shed with such brutal murdering. Maybe it's to conceal a blood trail of the culprit; or the cause of death that can be detected from faces' expression (poison gases... for e.g.)


I don't know, but i have a hunch that Maria may not be a normal kid. If she is not so childish in some moments (even when she is alone), i have suspected her to be a witch (or one of Beatrice's corporeal form)
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Old 2009-07-11, 16:43   Link #103
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
- Why some of the faces were destroyed? Was it simply brutal acts, or to conceal something?
The 6 missings and there are 6 dead body so unless there are more than 18 ppl on the islands, there is no reasons to conceal the death's identity. Maybe it's to conceal something inside the shed because ppl will wish to stay as far as possible from the shed with such brutal murdering. Maybe it's to conceal a blood trail of the culprit; or the cause of death that can be detected from faces' expression (poison gases... for e.g.)


I don't know, but i have a hunch that Maria may not be a normal kid. If she is not so childish in some moments (even when she is alone), i have suspected her to be a witch (or one of Beatrice's corporeal form)
The only reason I can think of for mutilating the faces, except for the sheer sake of scaring everyone, is to tricke everyone as to the identities of one of the corpses. But this isn't easy, since you would have to get a corpse from somewhere to stand-in for you, and have it be a good enough replica of you, even mutilated, to trick Nanjo (unless Nanjo is in on it...).

I do subscribe to the Maria=unusual theory, because she is a) so dang creepy and b) the scorpion medallions are too suspiciously important. It could be a massive red herring and she has some weird psychological thing but...I don't think so.
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Old 2009-07-11, 18:11   Link #104
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Yes, I think there's something about Maria we don't know yet which is important. There has to be a good reason why Beatrice revealed herself to Maria right away but has kept herself hidden from everyone else. Also, Maria has demonstrated some pretty extensive knowledge of the occult in general and Beatrice specifically. She knows that these scorpion medallions repel Beatrice's magic and she even brought several with her to the island. One thing I always wondered was, why did she already have them with her? Was she expecting there to be trouble? Furthermore, why did she only bring 2? I guess George doesn't believe in Beatrice either but I would have felt left out if I was George and Maria gave my cousins Battler and Jessica these cute medallions and didn't have one for me. Even more importantly, why didn't she need a medallion for herself? The fact that she doesn't need a talisman to block magic strongly implies she herself has magic. She seems to know a fair amount about Beatrice's specific powers, including transmutation of one substance to another (alchemy) and her ability to change her physical form. And the first thing she noticed when they all arrived was that the shrine on the rocks was missing and she determined that it was "sinister" and/or a "bad sign" (depending on which fansub you are watching).

It should be noted that Beatrice appears as a full-grown adult woman in the OP, yet the portrait of her in the mansion's main hall shows her in the form of a child. Perhaps she intentionally appears to Kinzou in this childlike form.
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Old 2009-07-11, 18:36   Link #105
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
3 more points i want to make:

- It's not easy to move the 6 corpses in the middle of the rain.....
So i suspect someone had something that can lure the 6 ppl to that shed, and kill them with poison gas or so. That would be the easiest way.
For Rudolf's, Kyrie's, Rosa and Krauss to be lured to that place in the middle of the night, there could be only 3 things: Kinzo's ring, the map that lead to the gold, or tools to "dig" them up. But none of them have comfortable clothes on, so the last option may less likely.
If it's really so, then Shannon and Gohda are most likely just the substitution since Eva and Hideoshi "went to sleep" early. Or maybe they were asked to get the key to that shed.
So why they have to hasten and rush up silently in the middle of the night.... no clues yet

- There are rain, and there are that complex ritual sign drawing, can the culprit wait for the rain to end , then drawn it there with all the corpses inside? Or was it a prank that coincidentally in the wrong moment?
I don't think that anybody would bother going back to their own room to change into comfortable clothes, assuming the other competitiors will do the same, when 10 tonnes of gold are on the line.

Kanon is the only one who said the sign is not there before the rain. Since he's a suspect, that might well be a lie.
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Originally Posted by cicero View Post
The only reason I can think of for mutilating the faces, except for the sheer sake of scaring everyone, is to tricke everyone as to the identities of one of the corpses. But this isn't easy, since you would have to get a corpse from somewhere to stand-in for you, and have it be a good enough replica of you, even mutilated, to trick Nanjo (unless Nanjo is in on it...).
Considering that all the siblings are depicted as money-hungry (except probably Rosa), I wouldn't cut off the possibility that one of them would go through all that trouble just to claim the gold.
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Old 2009-07-11, 21:11   Link #106
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Maybe it was poison. Detective Conan had a case where the poison was put in the food and the antidote was put something else. Those who ingested the combo lived. Those who ingested just the poison died.

The mutilation seems suspicious. I bet it's to lead others into thinking that someone is dead when he or she isn't.

How come the letter wasn't wet? If Maria received the letter in the garden, it should have shown signs of water damage.
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Old 2009-07-11, 21:15   Link #107
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Maybe it was poison. Detective Conan had a case where the poison was put in the food and the antidote was put something else. Those who ingested the combo lived. Those who ingested just the poison died.

The mutilation seems suspicious. I bet it's to lead others into thinking that someone is dead when he or she isn't.

How come the letter wasn't wet? If Maria received the letter in the garden, it should have shown signs of water damage.
Umbrella. She got the letter and the umbrealla at the same time so it shouldn't be wet.
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Old 2009-07-11, 21:16   Link #108
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The letter was also in her bag. Regardless if she received at the same time or not, it is unlikely for it to be wet as Maria really burried it deep down in the bag.
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Old 2009-07-11, 21:24   Link #109
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Unless something is wrapped when it is transferred from person to person in the rain, it's going to be damp because of rain blowing in the wind.

Also, maybe Rosa bit the dust because she got Maria to describe "Beatrice" to her.
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Old 2009-07-11, 21:33   Link #110
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She could have handed her the letter under the umbrella. It's not terribly hard.
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Old 2009-07-11, 22:22   Link #111
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Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier View Post
Yes, I think there's something about Maria we don't know yet which is important. There has to be a good reason why Beatrice revealed herself to Maria right away but has kept herself hidden from everyone else. Also, Maria has demonstrated some pretty extensive knowledge of the occult in general and Beatrice specifically. She knows that these scorpion medallions repel Beatrice's magic and she even brought several with her to the island. One thing I always wondered was, why did she already have them with her? Was she expecting there to be trouble? Furthermore, why did she only bring 2? I guess George doesn't believe in Beatrice either but I would have felt left out if I was George and Maria gave my cousins Battler and Jessica these cute medallions and didn't have one for me. Even more importantly, why didn't she need a medallion for herself? The fact that she doesn't need a talisman to block magic strongly implies she herself has magic. She seems to know a fair amount about Beatrice's specific powers, including transmutation of one substance to another (alchemy) and her ability to change her physical form. And the first thing she noticed when they all arrived was that the shrine on the rocks was missing and she determined that it was "sinister" and/or a "bad sign" (depending on which fansub you are watching).
I have to agree with you. Maria knows way too much

The two possibilities that came to my mind
A)She has experienced this before, and prepared for it. Similar to Rika
B)She is a witch/has powers

but what bothers me is she let her mom die when she could have saved her...
and should have known what would happen with the letter...

Although Eva and Hideyoshi seem suspicious, I can't imagine Eva being capable of dragging/carrying the bodies. Her outfit does not seem that easy to move around in. Especially with bodies, and in the rain. Hideyoshi in my opining doesn't seem like he can pull it off either. Nanjo seem to old to be carrying those bodies to me. Not so sure about Genji... he might be capable, but I see it as more likely that multiple people were involved. Or the witch herself showed up, and they followed her/her butterflies to the location. I am waiting to see if they find blood else where in the house though. Since its probable they were killed inside, and were dragged/carried, then mutilated in the shed. I don't think it was done solo at all.
Which if it isn't the family/servants then it is most likely Beatrice and more people/beings are also present on the island.

Then there is the chance a family member lured them there, but who would have lured them to begin with? They all seem to greedy to let the others know. *brain dies*

Now for the mutilation... it could just be symbolic. >___>
I'm not really sure they would do the whole faking dead thing again, its been done, and its too soon. D:
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Old 2009-07-11, 22:37   Link #112
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One of the supernatural elements of the show could very well be either Maria was possessed by Beatrice' spirit or she's some sort of reincarnation of Beatrice. That would be supernatural explanation of how Maria borrowed umbrella or "received" the letter with Kinzo's seal from Beatrice, or her complete faith to the existence of witch and magic. I highly doubt she's the killer but Beatrice's power might just be some kind of prophesying ability. This explains how the epitaph could predict the murders and all.
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Old 2009-07-11, 22:50   Link #113
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Say, I don't remember Kyrie being outside with Battler and the others looking for Maria. Yet she knew the umbrella she was given was white. And in open discussion, no one said anything about the color.
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Old 2009-07-11, 23:01   Link #114
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Uhm... uhm... my japanese is far from perfect but does Kyrie actually say "white"? I clearly understand "Maria-chan ni kasa wo". Now shouldn't the adjective placed before the noun? but there's nothing before "kasa".
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Old 2009-07-11, 23:07   Link #115
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Since I noticed around some people were confused about Krauss's gold bar, let me just quickly state what the anime didn't say about it:

Basically Krauss obtained the bar through connections, before any of his siblings did. In the anime they left out how the parents believed that Krauss actually knew the gold existed, because of some beliefs that Kinzo gave one bar of the 10 tons he obtained to a business partner. That's how the gold legend came to be. Fact that Krauss has this bar means that there certainly is hidden gold.
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Old 2009-07-11, 23:15   Link #116
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Uhm... uhm... my japanese is far from perfect but does Kyrie actually say "white"? I clearly understand "Maria-chan ni kasa wo". Now shouldn't the adjective placed before the noun? but there's nothing before "kasa".
Either way, Rosa does say it's white, and she saw it, so there's no problem.
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Old 2009-07-11, 23:36   Link #117
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Basically Krauss obtained the bar through connections, before any of his siblings did. In the anime they left out how the parents believed that Krauss actually knew the gold existed, because of some beliefs that Kinzo gave one bar of the 10 tons he obtained to a business partner. That's how the gold legend came to be. Fact that Krauss has this bar means that there certainly is hidden gold.
Or it was a bluff by Kinzo, I mean its hardly impossible to get hold of a single gold bar. Could be a bluff by Krauss, but I don't think he'd have any reason to show it to only Natsuhi if that was the case.

That said, whether or not the gold actually exists isn't really all that important if you think about. Only what people are willing to do based on the possibility that it exists.
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Old 2009-07-11, 23:51   Link #118
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Since I noticed around some people were confused about Krauss's gold bar, let me just quickly state what the anime didn't say about it:

Basically Krauss obtained the bar through connections, before any of his siblings did. In the anime they left out how the parents believed that Krauss actually knew the gold existed, because of some beliefs that Kinzo gave one bar of the 10 tons he obtained to a business partner. That's how the gold legend came to be. Fact that Krauss has this bar means that there certainly is hidden gold.
Uh wait, the three younger brothers didn't think the gold actually existed. If they did they wouldn't let him have the 62,5% of the whole thing. They used the gold legend as a cover up. What they really thought was: "Krauss is embezzling money's father". And then they came up with an "excuse" to let Krauss save his face in exchange for money. With their elaborate strategy they practically told Krauss "We know that you are embezzling money, but we will just pretend that you have found the gold and that's where the money come from, however we want our share". And when they said they wanted their "share of the gold", the real meaning was "we want our share of what you are embezzling from father".

So in the end Krauss was the only one who actually believed in the gold's existence, and his three younger siblings were the ones who actually thought it was just a legend. However Krauss pretended to think the gold was a hoax and the younger siblings pretended to believe it was real.
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Old 2009-07-12, 01:06   Link #119
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It should be noted that Beatrice appears as a full-grown adult woman in the OP, yet the portrait of her in the mansion's main hall shows her in the form of a child. Perhaps she intentionally appears to Kinzou in this childlike form.
Huh? I can't see how Beatrice in the portrait is a child. For me it's clearly a grown up woman
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Old 2009-07-12, 01:48   Link #120
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MeoTwister, please remove the EP4 spoiler from your post. I don't think it's even a minor issue.
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