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Old 2009-07-11, 03:46   Link #21
Kudryavka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
Why did you have to put that in there? It's just asking for more trouble, and I'm about to bite because I think this is sickening.

First, the death penalty does nothing to prevent crime. Statistics of states that have and don't have the death penalty prove it.

Second, innocent people may, and have, lost their lives thanks to this.

Third, taking someone's life because they committed a horrible crime does not solve anything, and I don't believe anyone has the right to take someone else's life.

Fourth, you might as well argue that the police is wasting your tax dollars, as they also have the function of keeping people in line, and wouldn't be necessary if everyone behaved nicely. Or how about money being wasted on people in psychiatric institutions? Those people are 'sick' as well.

You know what another term for "death penalty" is? It's "legalised murder".
My view: the death penalty is A-OK. I say it's best used on criminals who simply have no chance or interest in changing their ways. Or there's getting 1,000 years in jail, like that one child rapist. Both get the job done: the tumor is taken from society. At least if he's dead, we (taxpayers) don't have to pay for his ass.
And now I see what relentless means when she said that this topic fell into a flamefest. But it's juicy!
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Old 2009-07-11, 17:34   Link #22
Benoit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komari
My view: the death penalty is A-OK. I say it's best used on criminals who simply have no chance or interest in changing their ways.
First, you can't know for sure that a person is not going to change. Second, it does not solve the original problem of the crime being committed. Third, why do you think it's okay to kill a criminal but not a regular human being? Both are still murder.
Quote:
At least if he's dead, we (taxpayers) don't have to pay for his ass.
It's always about money. Don't you have a better argument?

You gave your view, but you did not address my points at all.
Quote:
And now I see what relentless means when she said that this topic fell into a flamefest.
People seem to be quick to point out something as a flamefest. I say people don't know what a real flamefest is anymore. It's not just strong disagreements and bogus arguments.

By the way, shouldn't this thread have been locked by now?
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Old 2009-07-11, 18:23   Link #23
izmosmolnar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit
By the way, shouldn't this thread have been locked by now?
I imagine relentless was waiting some certain someones to show up and present their arguments and/or keep the discussion going in some form.
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Old 2009-07-12, 11:28   Link #24
Sugar_Prayer
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Some people are fond of those kind of games. And its not just the 40-year old male you might imagine. Youths and females sometimes enjoy those kind of games.

However, I believe that those type of games shouldn't be marketed in places where someone young might find them.

I also believe that they should be taken off the shelfs (theoretically speaking). Because these types of game encourage immoral values.

Though I'm not religious, I still find it insulting to find games with nuns or other religious figures being raped.

I believe that in hentai games, sex should be willing, not forceful.
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Old 2009-07-12, 15:56   Link #25
DingoEnderZOE2
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Ummm I'm 22 and about the only rape games I've played and enjoyed were Isaku,Shusaku and Kisaku. Any other rape game just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, especially when the victims openly trust the person before they get raped and the rapist ridicules them for it, and I especially hate it when the rape victims begin to enjoy it immensely. Seeing as how I don't have that much exposure to other types of rape games I guess I can't comment much on this subject...

About the only thing I can say is I think that we all have a right to choose what type of media we enjoy, and it's stupid to just ban something when there are people who enjoy them, and if people are that sensitive about these types of games being sold, maybe it be best to have them been sold online instead of sold through stores.
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Old 2009-07-12, 17:27   Link #26
Benoit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Prayer
I also believe that they should be taken off the shelfs (theoretically speaking). Because these types of game encourage immoral values.
For the 100th time, these are fictional stories with fictional characters!
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Old 2009-07-12, 17:42   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
For the 100th time, these are fictional stories with fictional characters!
It doesn't matter!! They still encourage bad things!!
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Old 2009-07-12, 17:46   Link #28
izmosmolnar
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And here we go again .
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Old 2009-07-12, 17:47   Link #29
blitz1/2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Prayer View Post
It doesn't matter!! They still encourage bad things!!
Then why not take FPS off shelves, they kill people

Then why not take GTA off shelves, they teach teens how to jack cars

Why not ban WoW since it will only encourage people leaving the concept of reality in favour of a game?

Why not take RTS games off shelves, they kill people in bucketloads

Why not ban games/novels containing magic, they encourage witchcraft and satanic influences
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Old 2009-07-12, 18:27   Link #30
SnowSong
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I am going to throw in some psychologic perspective on the harm/no harm arguement. The sensitization theory that repeated exposure to rape desensitizes one to rape, and therefore decreases the empathy one feels for rape victims. Another theory speaks about attitude changes resulting from prolong exposure to rape. I believe Drake summarized it up well in his article:

"Adverse effects implicated in pornography consumption
(PC) include increased callousness toward
women; trivializing rape as a criminal offense;
distorted perceptions about sexuality;
appetite for more deviant and bizarre types of pornography
(escalation and addiction); and devaluing
the importance of monogamy (Zillman, 1989).
Other detrimental effects include less satisfaction
with partner’s sexual performance, affection and
physical appearance; doubts about the value and
institution of marriage; decreased desire to have
children; and viewing nonmonogamous relationships
as normal and natural behavior (Zillman,
1989)." (Drake 1994)

Other review articles I pulled off Medline and Psycstar that seems to review the current knowledge on this topic is listed below. If any one is interested, please have a read.

Lyons, 1.S . , Anderson, R.L., & Larson, D.B. ( 1990, November).
Effects of aggressive and nonaggressive pomography.
Paper presented at the workshop sponsored by
The National Family Foundation, titled “Media, Family
and Children,” Pittsburgh, PA.

Zillman, D. (1989). Effects of prolonged consumption of pornography.
In D. Zillman & J. Bryant (Eds.), Pornography:
Research advances ana’ policy considerations
(pp. 127-157). Hillsdale, NJ: Erlbaum.

My PsycStar search came up with no review articles that support the no-harm view. However, rape is not my speciality so I would welcome any other results people find.

Also, quote from Drake is from his other related study:
Drake, R.E. (1994). Potential health hazards of pornography consumption as viewed by psychiatric nurses. Archives of Psychiatric Nursing. Vol 8(2) 101-106.
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Old 2009-07-12, 20:32   Link #31
Sugar_Prayer
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Okay okay..... they should just at least sell them in places that young children won't be exposed to them -_-'
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Old 2009-07-12, 22:09   Link #32
Deathkillz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Prayer View Post
Okay okay..... they should just at least sell them in places that young children won't be exposed to them -_-'
What? These are ero-games, read "ero". They are all meant for people aged 18 and over in the first place so certainly you won't be finding them at any old game shop open to the public. And even if the shops do sell them they have a separate section saying "over 18s only" and I know, I've been to Japan during my last holiday. These games are plainly for adults so no little children should be touching them in the first place. However which restrictions to physical copies may be applies, there is little you can do if they go searching for digital copies over the internet. Maybe it's the adults responsibilities to protect their children from the evils that is the internet etc...
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Old 2009-07-12, 22:56   Link #33
Sugar_Prayer
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They're marketed all over the net.

My local 'anime store' also markets them, even with someone as young as my little brother coming in there.

They really need to be more careful how they display them to the public.
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Old 2009-07-12, 23:47   Link #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Prayer View Post
They really need to be more careful how they display them to the public.
The internet is public.
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Old 2009-07-13, 00:36   Link #35
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Thanks Kylaran for that. The internet is public also. Guess that narrows down the options.

Ban rape games and take away a small part of people's rights but keep them away from kiddies?

Or not ban rape games by letting people who enjoy rape games enjoy them and allow kiddies to go unsupervised?
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Old 2009-07-13, 01:17   Link #36
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowSong View Post
My PsycStar search came up with no review articles that support the no-harm view. However, rape is not my speciality so I would welcome any other results people find.
Like with violent games, I'm pretty sure that rape porn has an adverse effect on some portion of the user base.

However, we also know that there's little evidence that increased availability of porn and video games hasn't lead to increases in rape or murder rates, which is where the hypothesis that such things can act as a release valve comes from. I see no reason to believe that rape porn is different in this regard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarPrayer
They're marketed all over the net.

My local 'anime store' also markets them, even with someone as young as my little brother coming in there.
Then I'd tend to say that certain store owners and webmasters have some explaining to do.

(I've heard a number of webmasters sites with 18+ content say they use adult game ads on their sites because they companies behind them are some of the few companies that will advertise on sites with adult content. Kind of implies to me that the game manufacturers are pretty open about the fact their ads contain adult content.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FragrantFlora
Thanks Kylaran for that. The internet is public also. Guess that narrows down the options.

Ban rape games and take away a small part of people's rights but keep them away from kiddies?

Or not ban rape games by letting people who enjoy rape games enjoy them and allow kiddies to go unsupervised?
Given that the games are already widely available on P2P networks - along with craploads of other stuff kids shouldn't see - I'd tend to say it makes no difference in terms of access kids have to such content. And I'm not going to support dumbing down the internet for the kids.
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Old 2009-07-13, 01:56   Link #37
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Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
Given that the games are already widely available on P2P networks - along with craploads of other stuff kids shouldn't see - I'd tend to say it makes no difference in terms of access kids have to such content. And I'm not going to support dumbing down the internet for the kids.
So, just because they’re already on P2P networks means we shouldn’t do anything? I dunno…doesn’t strike me as something reasonable enough.

Putting rape games on shelves would increase the rate of a child finding them. So if we take out the games from shelves, the chance won’t be as high as to compared if games are on shelves and are on sale on the Internet.

We really can’t put too much blame on the parents for not supervising. There are loads of instances where parents will not be able to be by their children’s side 24/7. Actually it’s almost impossible when their children are at school
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Old 2009-07-13, 02:34   Link #38
0utf0xZer0
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Originally Posted by FragrantFlora View Post
So, just because they’re already on P2P networks means we shouldn’t do anything? I dunno…doesn’t strike me as something reasonable enough.
At this point, I take it as a given that banning stuff increases it's popularity on P2P networks. So from a harm reduction standpoint, I see it as rather irrelevant.

It strikes me as a perfectly reasonable approach, seeing as I still find the reasoning I used on page one relevant here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FragrantFlora View Post
We really can’t put too much blame on the parents for not supervising. There are loads of instances where parents will not be able to be by their children’s side 24/7. Actually it’s almost impossible when their children are at school
As a general rule, school network admins should not be allowing students to run P2P software on school machines.

I'm also curious as to whether you've ever realized that any kid who goes and seeks such material out on P2P already a) knows what rape is and b) finds it hot.
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Old 2009-07-13, 03:01   Link #39
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Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
At this point, I take it as a given that banning stuff increases it's popularity on P2P networks. So from a harm reduction standpoint, I see it as rather irrelevant.

It strikes me as a perfectly reasonable approach, seeing as I still find the reasoning I used on page one relevant here.

As a general rule, school network admins should not be allowing students to run P2P software on school machines.

I'm also curious as to whether you've ever realized that any kid who goes and seeks such material out on P2P already a) knows what rape is and b) finds it hot.
A kid can stumble upon such material by accident. Innocently entering a shop just to expect anime figurines and then seeing such material. That will then lead to the domino effect. Telling others blah blah. And yeah he/she will become curious. And will seek out more.

Protection from these things is advisable when a child is not at a mature age enough to understand it. Finding something "hot" still doesn't account for understanding

We can keep on saying that admins should do this, parents should do that, but in the end and mostly at a time too soon a child may stumble upon the games when entering an anime shop but of course "if" they're in the shop which still isn't safe.
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Old 2009-07-13, 03:29   Link #40
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FragrantFlora View Post
A kid can stumble upon such material by accident. Innocently entering a shop just to expect anime figurines and then seeing such material. That will then lead to the domino effect. Telling others blah blah. And yeah he/she will become curious. And will seek out more.

Protection from these things is advisable when a child is not at a mature age enough to understand it. Finding something "hot" still doesn't account for understanding

We can keep on saying that admins should do this, parents should do that, but in the end and mostly at a time too soon a child may stumble upon the games when entering an anime shop but of course "if" they're in the shop which still isn't safe.
You have to understand what rape is before you can find it hot - otherwise you just perceive it as normal sex. And it's against the law in many places to expose kids to porn, so a ban isn't exactly going to help there.

Given that I do have a rather strong crush on a girl right now, I have reason to be concerned with whether these games lead to real rape. So far, I'm not convinced they do, and your line or reasoning isn't doing anything to change that.
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