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Old 2009-07-12, 21:16   Link #1121
Shiek927
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Originally Posted by sonotme_9FedriqSama View Post
tell me something did clare earlier had same yoki as of teresa or not?...I wanted to know did it change with addition of Irene's hand and evolved something original of her own or not? sometimes it points that it didn't changed so does that mean she had her own yoki to begin with....then how did Irene could sense Teresa's yoki in her?
Becuase galatea could recognise her even after she got Irene's hand...so how does this yoki senseing work?
The word Yoki has many meanings: the energy the user is capable of(whether willfully or potentially) is one of them. Every warrior is as unique as they are human, they all have their own distinct Yoki that is part of their identity, kind of like scent which is used by the AE's to track their targets.

Teresa is a part of Claire; Claire has her own powers, her own everything, but she is a part of her deep down. By having Irene's arm, her own powers increase but Irene's yoki, her identity, also overlaps with Claires. If someone would just sense Claire, they would only feel her. But if a skilled Eye like Galatea would take a closer look at the arm, they would know it's different then the rest of her body.

Irene sensed Teresa inside of her; part of it was logic and common sense, part of it was probably due to the fact that Irene felt Teresa's energy when she powered up and it's astronomical power left a permanent impression on her. Even if Irene's sensing skills aren't on the level of an Eye, she will never forget it for the rest of her life and as such, easily felt a "familiar presence."

Don't feel too bad, it's a complicated question. Their is a very great deal when it comes to Yoki, and I didn't even scratch the surface.
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Old 2009-07-12, 21:24   Link #1122
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
The word Yoki has many meanings: the energy the user is capable of(whether willfully or potentially) is one of them. Every warrior is as unique as they are human, they all have their own distinct Yoki that is part of their identity, kind of like scent which is used by the AE's to track their targets.
how human are they exactly?
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Old 2009-07-12, 22:01   Link #1123
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how human are they exactly?
Well, for Claymores and other such warriors, physically, half for the most part. Claire, is obviously not, and depending on the exact generation, it's hard to say(I'm looking at you Clarice).

But I was speaking metaphorically Vinak when I wrote that: Everybody is unique, as is the ones with yoki in them. Physically is one thing, but Claire has her own yoki signature. It may or not have have traces of Teresa's and Irene's(and possibly Rafaela's) when a outer scan of her is done, though if an Eye were to sense her, they'd sense that she's actually pieces of others put together and melded with her rather then just have a signature that is totally her own.

Admittingly, it's hard to back-up what I say, especially when I can't recall such a scan being done, though I believe what I'm saying isn't too far off from the truth. Teresa for example is inside of Claire and a part of her: does that mean she will eventually use Teresa's power and as such, use her yoki rather then her own? or will her yoki simply blend in with Claire's and others won't feel it's Teresa in front of them instead of Claire?

With Irene, it's a bit of both and neither at the same time. She felt Teresa inside of Claire, but never really seemed to acknowledge the outer energy that's Claire, so the two seem to be seperate to a certain degree.

It's tough; with Yoki, I feel their's always a very blurry vague line with these sorts of things so it's hard to pinpoint definite answers.
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Old 2009-07-13, 00:24   Link #1124
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Originally Posted by sonotme_9FedriqSama View Post
tell me something did clare earlier had same yoki as of teresa or not?...I wanted to know did it change with addition of Irene's hand and evolved something original of her own or not? sometimes it points that it didn't changed so does that mean she had her own yoki to begin with....then how did Irene could sense Teresa's yoki in her?
Becuase galatea could recognise her even after she got Irene's hand...so how does this yoki senseing work?
My opinion is that in addition to all the other things that it can do, yoki can act like the metaphysical scent of yoma, AB, or warrior. IMO, the yoma presented evokes the image of an animal. For example, the fact that they only go after guts is very interesting. When the body of the English climber George Mallory was discovered 70 years? later after going missing, they found the birds had pecked through his butt and anus to feed on his guts. They didn't pick him bone clean which would be the logical thing to do in a place with little food like Everest, which suggests they instinctively went for the guts and left the rest.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Yagi picked guts as the food of choice for yoma. Once you view the yoma in an animal context, the yoki sensing thing makes sense in a way. Every animal has his or her own scent. Only that this yoma animal can sense this "scent" metaphysically without using a nose. No different than a dog that can smell food or another small animal in your pockets. This is not really supported by any info directly from the manga, just my 2 cents.
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Old 2009-07-13, 02:02   Link #1125
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Oh yeah, ougi!!!

I've heard that word before in Valkyrie Profile when a character does a soul crusher kind of move Yep I remember it now. It sounds more like Oh gi.

Clare is indeed way stronger than when she started out.
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Old 2009-07-13, 04:53   Link #1126
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return of some sleepy speculation

Been rather busy the last two weeks, but this page looks rather interesting so i'll insert some speculation here.

And i apologise for getting all metaphysical but i feel that yoki isn't just an energy signature but perhaps the actual manifestation of the soul. Like an aura it's different with each individual and non detectable (not that i believe in that in real life). It also has shape of the individual which allows them to rebuild their bodies in a memory of what their shape should be. (phantom limbs?)

Clare's yoki is individual in that it his her soul as a result of hybridisation, but it also has been consistently expressed as 'weak' or 'small' despite the fact that a very dangerous monster that can tear an awakened #2 to shreds resides inside her. There is probably also a hint in here, because Clare's yoki was probably the 'bright light' that Priscilla described that along with Miria was obviously the strongest amongst the two ghosts. And yet even so, no one has said Claire is strong not even Cynthia who detected a rapid increase in Clare's yoki.

But this is the interesting thing, the combined forms of Raphealla and Luciella were undetectable except to excellent yoki sensors such as Renee, and Claire, who probed to find a 'compressed' form of yoki, which when released has been shown to be vaster than anything else on the island.

Perhaps this explains Claire's endless yoki stamina, as she just keeps drawing on her compressed yoki. A pool that has been soul linked with, Jean and Raphealla/Luciella, that was the result of hybridisation using Teresa, and which at some point got a unique signature addition of Ilena's arm...
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Old 2009-07-13, 05:14   Link #1127
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its been a while since i feel so excited reading Claymore

this chapter really make me cant wait for the next one
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Old 2009-07-13, 05:40   Link #1128
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One thing i dont get... Dauf is not an Abyssal... yet the Zombies ate his hand... Weren't they supposed only to fetch the smell coming from the piece of riful's body recoved by the organization?
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Old 2009-07-13, 05:48   Link #1129
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Originally Posted by romari View Post
One thing i dont get... Dauf is not an Abyssal... yet the Zombies ate his hand... Weren't they supposed only to fetch the smell coming from the piece of riful's body recoved by the organization?
It's the hand that hold Riful's dress.
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Old 2009-07-13, 05:49   Link #1130
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i guess he was holding Riful's shirt, which has her smell on it

the funny thing is why Dauf did not notice the pain, i remember he cried and screamed like crazy due to the pain after being attacked by Clare
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Old 2009-07-13, 06:56   Link #1131
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ever since reading chp 93, i began to wonder if clare's mind is in synced with raceilla's? when clare reemerged from raciella's awakened body, she said 'this is the form you wished for at the end. this form... it's just like...'

raciella might have realized the 'twin goddess statue' image was very important to clare because it reminded her of teresa and raki. raciella then made the decision to make her awakened form that very much resembled the statue.
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Old 2009-07-13, 07:02   Link #1132
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"it reminded her of teresa and raki" ? Then one of the twins should have been a donkey
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Old 2009-07-13, 07:05   Link #1133
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i said it because raki drew the 'twin goddess statue' when he was being held captive in one of the towns up north seven years ago.
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Old 2009-07-13, 13:31   Link #1134
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Originally Posted by klare View Post
i guess he was holding Riful's shirt, which has her smell on it

the funny thing is why Dauf did not notice the pain, i remember he cried and screamed like crazy due to the pain after being attacked by Clare
I also notice that he didn't bleed...it can be seen in many Awakened beings...like when Teresa twisted rosemary's hand, when clare chopped Ophelia's hands, when helen breaks rifuls body, when priscilla and abyss feeder cut Isley...I don't know what the reason is but they don't bleed sometimes and at that time they don't feel pain...where as when they bleed they feel pain...(galatea cutting duff, clare cutting six handed Ab at mountains, clare using quick sword on body of orphelia), and of course yoma...they feel pain because they bleed...I've haven't seen any yoma not bleed...its only AB's that don't bleed in some parts of the body...but they feel pain if they are cut where they bleed...and if all the sensitive parts where blood is there, are chopped off they die...atleast that the pattern I've observed...tell me if i'm wrong?

I thing the human part of the AB's body have blood (like for Orphelia she moved all her hunan part at on her tail and when clare was chopping her front part of body she wasn't bleeding but she bled at clares final strike to her stomach...same can be seen when Orphelia chopped the head of the AB's in vol. 7...only her head bled but before when Orphelia cut her nexk she didn't bled and she was talking "the monster is you" and all...

I've never seen riful bleed...plus the loli is all tape like...don't know where her blood flows....

So I have a question does that meen the stronger the awaken beings the less blood they have and more yoki they posess?...Is it becuase of that its hard to destroy their awakened body in one move because the body parts where blood is all segregated with in the awakened body...

and as I remember duff this time was just stiing in one place...where as with galatea he was fighting meaning he was using his yoki...and he did bled at that time...

Ok i'm getting a migrane... anyone else please take over on this
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Old 2009-07-13, 17:12   Link #1135
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Originally Posted by Sleepy Speculator View Post
And i apologise for getting all metaphysical but i feel that yoki isn't just an energy signature but perhaps the actual manifestation of the soul. Like an aura it's different with each individual and non detectable (not that i believe in that in real life). It also has shape of the individual which allows them to rebuild their bodies in a memory of what their shape should be. (phantom limbs?)

Clare's yoki is individual in that it his her soul as a result of hybridisation, but it also has been consistently expressed as 'weak' or 'small' despite the fact that a very dangerous monster that can tear an awakened #2 to shreds resides inside her. There is probably also a hint in here, because Clare's yoki was probably the 'bright light' that Priscilla described that along with Miria was obviously the strongest amongst the two ghosts. And yet even so, no one has said Claire is strong not even Cynthia who detected a rapid increase in Clare's yoki.

But this is the interesting thing, the combined forms of Raphealla and Luciella were undetectable except to excellent yoki sensors such as Renee, and Claire, who probed to find a 'compressed' form of yoki, which when released has been shown to be vaster than anything else on the island.

Perhaps this explains Claire's endless yoki stamina, as she just keeps drawing on her compressed yoki. A pool that has been soul linked with, Jean and Raphealla/Luciella, that was the result of hybridisation using Teresa, and which at some point got a unique signature addition of Ilena's arm...
I think your on to something there, while I'm a bit doubtful about the soul part, the logic of the two compressed yokis "cancelling each other out" to sensors unless released uncompressed seems VERY sound

(i.e. bright light in pieta, precisely because clare had released over the limit against rigaldo - although by the time prissy sensed her she had reverted back, there might still have been som lingering "feel" of her double yoki's real form that prissy could sense)

as for "soul-linking" with jean in pieta, I never thought of it that way, but I guess its entirely possible that through that yoki-synchronisation, she also got some part from jean - man she really is cannibalizing people
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Old 2009-07-13, 19:54   Link #1136
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Originally Posted by clarakiss~ View Post
ever since reading chp 93, i began to wonder if clare's mind is in synced with raceilla's? when clare reemerged from raciella's awakened body, she said 'this is the form you wished for at the end. this form... it's just like...'

raciella might have realized the 'twin goddess statue' image was very important to clare because it reminded her of teresa and raki. raciella then made the decision to make her awakened form that very much resembled the statue.
There is an alternate explanation. Teresa probably knew Raphaela. Teresa told Clare about the twin goddesses, but who told Teresa? It probably wasn't the parents who sold her or the Org itself. Raphaela, being a twin herself is a great candidate for someone to hear and remember the twin goddess myth, and having met a prodigy with the same name as one of the Goddesses, it makes sense she would have told Teresa about it (especially since experiments with other twins seemed to be on her mind during that time period).

But in any event, the twin goddess legend is import to Clare (and eventually Raki) because it was important to Teresa first.
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Old 2009-07-13, 20:02   Link #1137
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Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
There is an alternate explanation. Teresa probably knew Raphaela. Teresa told Clare about the twin goddesses, but who told Teresa? It probably wasn't the parents who sold her or the Org itself. Raphaela, being a twin herself is a great candidate for someone to hear and remember the twin goddess myth, and having met a prodigy with the same name as one of the Goddesses, it makes sense she would have told Teresa about it (especially since experiments with other twins seemed to be on her mind during that time period).

But in any event, the twin goddess legend is import to Clare (and eventually Raki) because it was important to Teresa first.
More like Teresa definitely knew Rafaela, we know she did.

That's the funny thing about Cognates of Paradise; it gives the impression that the time she met child Teresa was the first and last time. She could have easily went out of her way to occasionally meet Teresa as she grew up and formed a sort of teacher-student bond, perhaps in further hopes that Teresa wouldn't grow up to be like her.

I particuraly what Illney said about the Twin Goddess's, how they effect more then just Teresa and Claire and parallels are all over the place: the first represents love, purity and humanity, protecting the second from self-destruction. Claire helped Teresa grow a heart and no longer hate humans and give a reason to live, Raki saved Claire from awakening and gave her something to live for besides revenge, Rafaela saved(or at least attempted too) Luciella from herself during Soul-Link, Beth saves her sister Alicia from fully Awakening, Clarice saved Miata from becoming a new Priscilla, Raki grew a heart in Isley and made him care more for his family then war, and Raki transformed Priscilla from the strongest monster to a child who doesn't eat humans.

The Twin Goddesses are a huge part of Claymore; you can make all kind of comparisons and parallels without even trying.

-------

In another note, a question I've asked time and time again and still haven't gotten an answer:

In the beginning of Chapter 92 and the cover artwork of Claire, above Yagi's name is "No.001".

Is their any particular reason that's there? Claire in many ways, is already a No.1 ranked warrior, but is this some sort of confirmation? or something else entirely?

Last edited by Shiek927; 2009-07-13 at 23:21.
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Old 2009-07-14, 09:15   Link #1138
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There is an alternate explanation. Teresa probably knew Raphaela. Teresa told Clare about the twin goddesses, but who told Teresa? It probably wasn't the parents who sold her or the Org itself. Raphaela, being a twin herself is a great candidate for someone to hear and remember the twin goddess myth, and having met a prodigy with the same name as one of the Goddesses, it makes sense she would have told Teresa about it (especially since experiments with other twins seemed to be on her mind during that time period).

But in any event, the twin goddess legend is import to Clare (and eventually Raki) because it was important to Teresa first.

sold? hm, the majority of Claymores are orphans, that's why the people form Alicia and Beth town were so surprised when the org demanded them.

Teresa probably had a normal upbringing, until getting orphan at least. And she could know the story while traveling to slaughter some yoma. Because.. I'm not seeing Rafaela telling a random story to a kid. Nope.. not Rafaela.
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Old 2009-07-14, 09:25   Link #1139
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sold? hm, the majority of Claymores are orphans, that's why the people form Alicia and Beth town were so surprised when the org demanded them.

Teresa probably had a normal upbringing, until getting orphan at least. And she could know the story while traveling to slaughter some yoma. Because.. I'm not seeing Rafaela telling a random story to a kid. Nope.. not Rafaela.
Unless my memory is starting to go on me, I recall in Teresa's intro it being mentioned that:
- she used to have black hair she was proud of
- and that she was betrayed by the people she trusted

@Shiek927:
I don't see where you're seeing that. What cover artwork of Clare? The page with the scene number has Raphaela on it.
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Old 2009-07-14, 09:33   Link #1140
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Unless my memory is starting to go on me, I recall in Teresa's intro it being mentioned that:
- she used to have black hair she was proud of
- and that she was betrayed by the people she trusted

@Shiek927:
I don't see where you're seeing that. What cover artwork of Clare? The page with the scene number has Raphaela on it.
i don't remember that, really.

But I remember Teresa telling Clare, that their parents probably loved them very much to give them those names.
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