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Old 2009-07-13, 17:58   Link #101
panzerfan
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Well, there is the added irony in that she hasn't has any real friend since she has never deemed any prior opportunity as valid ones to go after, and this was made blatantly clear even in novel 1 when Taniguchi reflected on Haruhi. There is something magical about that act of doing homework with others for Haruhi, which is obvious. Although what has been said about exactly what is the nature of her own sense of closure out of this act is elusive.

dnab advocates that it is a rite of summer for Haruhi that she feels that it is to be upheld for a 'proper' closure to summer vacation, while TakariCritic muses that Haruhi is able to change her mindset through being reminded of the school year ahead. Of course, the concept that dnab has also touched on is that her own craving for social interactions are compounded into this loop and the subsequent breaking up by doing homework with her friends.

The point I wish to raise is that it could've well been that the proper use of Haruhi's otherwise unplanned, free day is important to her, as that would've meant that the SOS Brigade did not rest at any given point of that 2 weeks. This would signal her success as a planner of nonstop activities and what a well-executed blitz through the remaining weeks of summer that would be if every loose end is tied up. I raise this point since Haruhi has always loathed indecisiveness and inactivity. She is not content about wasting any 'opportunity' that appears before her, and being the person that is tempted to seize and choke destiny by the neck, Haruhi would've found relief in that the last day is spent in a frantic pace for her entire brigade as the members prepare themselves for the vigors of what's ahead of them come September. After all, post-novel 2 Haruhi looks at her brigade as integral to her personal accomplishments.
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Old 2009-07-13, 18:21   Link #102
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Also consider that Haruhi seen to be one to follow all traditional holidays even if they are not all that observed. While she usually doesn't display traditional ideology in her activities she does seem to have some part of her that fuctions on the "this is how things are" method of reasoning. She can be perfectly polite, helpful, and traditional...she just only does it during specific instances.
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Old 2009-07-13, 18:27   Link #103
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Also consider that Haruhi seen to be one to follow all traditional holidays even if they are not all that observed. While she usually doesn't display traditional ideology in her activities she does seem to have some part of her that fuctions on the "this is how things are" method of reasoning. She can be perfectly polite, helpful, and traditional...she just only does it during specific instances.
Which is why she's still Chaotic: Her following of any kind of tradition or rules seem to be inherently random.
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Old 2009-07-13, 18:30   Link #104
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Ironically, what Kaisos said makes the monarchist the most extreme wing of politics today... given that the norm rests not with them. Haruhi being a stanch fellow to follow traditions would make her 'unique' given that such devotion isn't the norm statistically anymore.
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Old 2009-07-13, 20:35   Link #105
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I think part of the reason why Haruhi is in some ways kind of frightening is that (if the 'tradition' or the 'don't feel accomplished' theory of homework relativity is correct') she's basically effed up the entire universe for something incredibly minor.

Actually when it comes to effing up the entire universe pretty much any reason you give for it is kind of minor.
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Old 2009-07-13, 20:43   Link #106
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Sets the stage for all the weirdness of Sighs doesn't it?
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Old 2009-07-13, 21:40   Link #107
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I thought she was waiting for Kyon to make a damn decision about something he wants to do and ask her for it, so she can give it to him.

That it ends up being homework is irrelevant.
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Old 2009-07-13, 22:00   Link #108
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Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge View Post
I thought she was waiting for Kyon to make a damn decision about something he wants to do and ask her for it, so she can give it to him.

That it ends up being homework is irrelevant.
Agree 100%! Since Mikuru got something she asked for...
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Old 2009-07-14, 00:26   Link #109
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Anyways, I do think we should return to look onwards at what-ifs of novel 10 and onwards, even if, and despite the fact that there's been little movement yet to advance the story further than our break. In addition, we have much more than a chapter of recursion to consider, unlike in other threads.

I am hoping to see Haruhi meeting with Sasaki actually. I for some reason see Sasaki as Yang Wenli and Haruhi as Reinhard going into a meeting as the two discuss their fundamental differences...

For me, Haruhi has this innate tendency to grab destiny instead of waiting on it and wrestle it to the ground, while Sasaki prefers to see the future unfold at its own pace. If anything, Sasaki base her viewpoint from observation while Haruhi from her own desires. What this means is that Haruhi seeks to bend the universe as she sees fit, together with those that she wants to be with, while Sasaki, although not indifferent to the issues of stagnation, think that the wrongs to a system should be self-corrected and she merely play her part in the total ecosystem.

The perfect irony is also that Haruhi has no awareness of how grand her reaches are, while Sasaki has no whim to steer the course despite having the map in front of her.

(this is how I look at the two anyways)
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Last edited by panzerfan; 2009-07-14 at 01:34.
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Old 2009-07-14, 00:34   Link #110
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In other words: irresistible force meets immovable object?

Yin vs Yang?

Two sides of the same coin?
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Old 2009-07-14, 00:56   Link #111
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Possible, but things depend on if the Anti-SOS-dan will remain a fixture of the series, or if they are just a way to introduce the slider to the SOS-dan as a possible replacement for Mikuru when she leaves at the end of her third year (we assume she'll leave and be replaced by Mikuru(BIG) as a teacher.) They also loose Tsuruya at the same time plus much of the Computer Club, and a few other people who are third years now. But that shouldn't be for several more books.

If the Anti-SOS-dam remains a fixture of the series, they really can't be regular antagonists since they are suppose to be High School students (normal), as are the SOS-dan. Its not like they can have a silent war going on with Haruhi not knowing about it...especially if the goal is Kyon....can they?

Kyon is the only non-opposite character, unless the slider is the anti-Kyon, but then one side would have a slider and the other would not....unless there are two sliders. One being a Kyon type and the other being the one that wants to join the SOS-dan. This means that the Anti-SOS-dan would need to gain another new member for balance (if they no longer can get Kyon), but this would be a normal human (or to be weird, a slider from Haruhi's universe that hasn't left yet. Meaning someone that can slide between universes but is native to the one Kyon's from).

Weirdness happens. Yuki saves the day. (or Kyon, or Itsuki) things return to normal with the anti-SOS-dan still around to cause trouble later when they don't have their own homework to do or their own "fun" activites to plan. (The likelihood of Mikuru or Haruhi saving the day are slim to none since Mikuru just doesn't do saving and Haruhi is to remain unaware.)
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Old 2009-07-14, 01:05   Link #112
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Well, the issue will then extend itself to what is to come after the era of Haruhi?

Let us imagine Haruhi talking to Sasaki:

Quote:
Originally Posted by treading dangerously into fanfic territory

H: "How about it? Why not join the SOS-dan? I heard that you're in a group, but if you come over, we have the real deal instead of that bunch you're with that do nothing."
S: "That would be quite an honor, but one that I cannot accept."
H: "How is that? I mean Kyon's in here too..."
S: "That is because I am of no help to you..."
H: "Is that flattery or that you doubt my leadership skills?"
S: "Not at all!"

Sasaki raises her voice as she is thinking of how to break it to Haruhi without hurting the girl's ego. The thing that shocks me is that she doesn't seem to be afraid of this demi-god, but that she actually looks as if refusing this genuine offer is a guilty thing to do.

S: "If I were in your school, even without such an invitation, I would've flocked to your brigade. However, we are not in the same school, so I think I would harm the brigade by not actively contribute."

Sasaki takes a quick sip of the cola, no doubt to hide her embarrassment out of this clumsy explnation. Haruhi in turn also wolves down her own cup of cola.

H: "I don't think that your groupie's right for you. With all that you've been doing, getting zilch from them isn't really fair... and they seem rather cold towards you."

It's fine so long as these people don't actually do anything- that Sasaki obviously cannot say, so she has to openly get away with an excuse.

S: "I am more than satisfied about how things are... and I kind of like not really being noticed."
H: "You remain loyal to your group, I guess?"
S: "Hmm... well..."

While Sasaki is trying to stall for time, Haruhi drops her cup and begins to get serious about the conversation.


H: "Is the universal status quo really that great? How then can you say that the stupidity in having students elect useless student bodies is just fine?"
S: "..."
H: "That and... seeing your groupie dropping their heads when being told that they lack the number to form a proper club as they call it quits is fine? Wouldn't conforming to the status-quo the act of self depreciation and avoiding self-responsibility?"

Well, Haruhi has touched Sasaki-san's nerves.

S: "So, by this logic, you would be denying the worth of fire just because of forest fires."
H: "well..."

Haruhi crooks her head a bit. She looks strangely elegant while doing this...

H: "Well, what of the case of social change? Can we dispute the worth of revolution just because of Dumont and Robespierre?"
S: "I have to refute this."
H: "How?"
S: "The right to really change anything lies with the very people running the system. For example, when students vote in a council president, the responsibility rests squarely with the student body. That is important, for that the fault of absolutism lies in passing the buck onto the shot caller.

Not having the people accept this self-responsibility completely removes the pluses of having a capable yet strong leader while amplified under a poor leader. You should know that good leaders like you are hard to come by..."
H: "That's an interesting point, although I can only agree on surface. Are you trying to persuade me to anything?"
S: "That is not it..."

Sasaki gives an uneasy answer. She really is puzzled from the looks of it, since she has no intent to outsmart nor to convince Haruhi. She plays with the drinking straw to calm herself, I suppose.

S: "I... was just giving a foil to your standpoint. I think that it is important to have an opposing view to any topic, which is why I raised my point."
H: "There is no absolute truth, and it can't be summed up in one sentence, I guess that's your belief?"
S: "Belief is too strong of a word. Maybe absolute truth exists somewhere, as there is an answer to everything, but these arms are too short to reach for it."
H: "I don't think getting that absolute truth is needed. You should grab what you can with your own fists. This means that you don't have to take someone's shit."

H: "Come to think of it, don't you have people that you hate?"
S: "I do hate those that place themselves at a safe corner ans asking others to do all the hard works. It irritates me with no end! You're different. You always are at the head of everything. Sorry about this ranting... I ..."

H: "So you only approve me of that. I am glad to hear it!"

Haruhi belts this out and she seems to have lighten up considerably.
What should worry Sasaki from how I see it is to whom will the universe turn to after Haruhi is gone in order to keep that revitalizing spirit alive.
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Last edited by panzerfan; 2009-07-14 at 05:17.
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Old 2009-07-14, 01:51   Link #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan View Post
S: "I... was just giving a foil to your standpoint. I think that it is important to have an opposing view to any topic, which is why I raised my point."
So... basically, Sasaki is pretty much like I'd be in this scenario?
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Old 2009-07-14, 02:06   Link #114
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Hey, hey... Not so fast... I'm not quite ready to shelve the E8 discussion... ^_^

Quote:
Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge View Post
I thought she was waiting for Kyon to make a damn decision about something he wants to do and ask her for it, so she can give it to him.

That it ends up being homework is irrelevant.
I think that's part of it, but not all. Think about the primary thing in common among all the things they did other than Mikuru's goldfish catching and Kyon's homework. They were all planned out by Haruhi. But that alone obviously isn't what ended the loop, as they had goldfish catching a majority of the times through.

Now think of the one thing in common between all the things Haruhi planned and Kyon's homework, that Mikuru's goldfish catching didn't have. The former two sets involved all of the SOS-dan. The latter item only involved Haruhi and Mikuru.

So that makes Kyon's homework the only activity that Haruhi didn't come up with that involved everybody. Now, I'm sure the fact that it was particularly Kyon's idea didn't hurt...
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Old 2009-07-14, 02:36   Link #115
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Sigh. We're intruding on what the other threads have the liberty of looking at with endless eight. That's why I want to return to novel 10 discussion.

Kyon's groupie homework is an activity that Haruhi didn't come up with, that is true, as is with the goldfish. However, stating this would ignore the fact that Koizumi and Nagato have not contributed with an original idea, yet that's not so crucial to her eyes apparently.

As such, if Haruhi's not so concerned about Koizumi and Nagato giving an idea that would concern only Haruhi and the two members, then one might say that there's not much special about the goldfish catching per se, save that this matter is voiced aloud and registered.

I have statistical support for this as well.

-0.0129% of all loops had no Obon,
-2.82% of all loops would have Obon without Goldfish,

Essentially, this 2.82% indicates that Haruhi would've not done the goldfish under some circumstances, which would either be a change of heart or through Asahina not raising the point of wanting to catch gold fish. Given Haruhi being so headstrong about carrying whatever that goes on her fish and not compromising one bit, it leaves only that Asahina raising her voice and having the activity registered in as the trigger for the goldfish event to occur.

(I really, really don't want to take away from other threads on this subject anymore...)
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Old 2009-07-14, 04:34   Link #116
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CRACK theory of the day: Haruhi and Sasaki seem like, well, unbalanced people. Given their physical similarities, what if they were two halves of the same person?
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Old 2009-07-14, 05:09   Link #117
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Ugh, I hate Sasaki.
But in a way, she and Haruhi contrast each other in a lot of ways.
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Old 2009-07-14, 05:25   Link #118
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The mortality of Suzumiya Haruhi strikes me alot, and I would like to see what Kyon have to say when confronted with the hypothetical issue of having this engine of change, that chugs along without referring to any individual on the direction of the universe stopping one day, and this time, there's no Disappearance scenario to fall back on.

Filling the shoes of Haruhi the giant? Foster the rebel clause and give the ability to alter the direction and generation of new information for the universe to all the sentient entities? To fall into stagnation in a post-Haruhi scene and not care about that? Why, this sounds closer to LoGH than I thought.
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Old 2009-07-14, 06:49   Link #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Kyon is the only non-opposite character, unless the slider is the anti-Kyon, but then one side would have a slider and the other would not....unless there are two sliders. One being a Kyon type and the other being the one that wants to join the SOS-dan. This means that the Anti-SOS-dan would need to gain another new member for balance (if they no longer can get Kyon), but this would be a normal human (or to be weird, a slider from Haruhi's universe that hasn't left yet. Meaning someone that can slide between universes but is native to the one Kyon's from).
There isn't and won't be an anti-Kyon. Sasaki's group wants him and implies that they need him in order to win the standoff anyway, so making an anti-Kyon kind of ruins the dynamic. It's supposed to set up a choice for Kyon - Haruhi, the spastic unpredictable lovable mess of an energetic girl... or Sasaki, the slightly off-kilter girl he knew from middle school. The SOS vs anti-SOS is set up, so far, as a Kyon-centric story even more so than just that he's the narrator.

Now, after he makes his choice, they might try to find a replacement... but I doubt it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Weirdness happens. Yuki saves the day. (or Kyon, or Itsuki) things return to normal with the anti-SOS-dan still around to cause trouble later when they don't have their own homework to do or their own "fun" activites to plan. (The likelihood of Mikuru or Haruhi saving the day are slim to none since Mikuru just doesn't do saving and Haruhi is to remain unaware.)
I think it's significantly more likely that Haruhi could save the day completely accidentally than you seem to be implying here.

Kaisos Erranon's crack theory makes a little too much sense.
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Old 2009-07-14, 08:08   Link #120
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Well... it's certainly a lot better than the one where it's Haruhi and Kyon that are two halves of the same person...
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