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Old 2009-07-14, 13:50   Link #41
MihawkXGP
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If Ace is gonna take over, It'll only be to get revenge for Whitebeard and that'd be by killing the man responsible for all the mess in the first place, BB.

Not only can i not wait for the Legend to make his move, I can't wait to see what his division commanders are all about, especially Marco because despite the look, you can tell he is gonna be f'ing awesome.

Last edited by MihawkXGP; 2009-07-14 at 14:04.
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Old 2009-07-14, 14:19   Link #42
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata View Post
Well, finding out he's the son of Gol D Roger (plus potential death of Whitebeard) might change his outlook... that's what some of us are suggesting here.
I agree. If Ace doesn't change at all after this whole ordeal, he won't really serve a purpose anymore in the story. Whitebeard is the foundation for everything Ace has done and believes in. If Whitebeard dies, Ace will no longer have a goal in life. In order to undergo some drastic character development, he's going to have start doing things for himself. For being a "D" character, Ace is very passive in comparison to Blackbeard and Luffy (both of whom are truly ambitious individuals).
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Old 2009-07-14, 16:10   Link #43
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Ace and luffy not being blood related isn't that surprising. I don't know about japanese in culture, but asia especially in places where nuclear family (south asia, southeast asia, china) is a recent phenomena, anyone who lives with you is considered a relative of somesort even if they are not blood relatives. Sanskrit based languages which buddhism is derived from, the honorifics used with older brother/younger brother is the same for anyone of same status (e.g. cousin that lived with you), you also frequently adress your parents close friends with honorifics of aunt/uncle (though it may be a more distant related).
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Old 2009-07-14, 16:57   Link #44
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
I agree. If Ace doesn't change at all after this whole ordeal, he won't really serve a purpose anymore in the story. Whitebeard is the foundation for everything Ace has done and believes in. If Whitebeard dies, Ace will no longer have a goal in life. In order to undergo some drastic character development, he's going to have start doing things for himself. For being a "D" character, Ace is very passive in comparison to Blackbeard and Luffy (both of whom are truly ambitious individuals).
Maybe that's how his character is suppose to be...(passive)
The only I can really see Ace doing is either kicking Blackbeard's ass...
Or joining Luffy... the whole time he had no ambition to become Pirate King...
I don't see why he would now just because his father is Gol. D Roger...
I don't mind if he doesn't pirate or whatever anymore...
Ace, in my opinion, would serve no purpose on the seas if he doesn't want to become Pirate King...
Plus, he's been branded with Whitebeard's logo.
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Old 2009-07-14, 17:35   Link #45
kari-no-sugata
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
I agree. If Ace doesn't change at all after this whole ordeal, he won't really serve a purpose anymore in the story. Whitebeard is the foundation for everything Ace has done and believes in. If Whitebeard dies, Ace will no longer have a goal in life. In order to undergo some drastic character development, he's going to have start doing things for himself. For being a "D" character, Ace is very passive in comparison to Blackbeard and Luffy (both of whom are truly ambitious individuals).
Ace has almost always come across as being laid back - certainly not as firey as his Devil Fruit powers. I wonder if he was always like that...? Quite possibly. I've said before that I think Ace peaked too soon - he became too strong too early, and as such didn't falter until he met someone truly strong - Whitebeard. In terms of pure strength, I'm sure he got stronger after meeting Whitebeard and joining the crew, but I don't think his Haki developed any further after that. His personal growth ended.

Now it's time for his personal ambition to develop and propel him to new heights...

...probably.
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Old 2009-07-14, 17:52   Link #46
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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So everyone, any predictions on what match-ups you think will take place in this war ? I'm going to throw out a wild guess, and say that Marco and Jozu are going to fight against Doflamingo and Kuma, respectively. I also believe that Whitebeard is going to be the first one to reach the admirals at the execution platform. It is there where he will be overwhelmed by them only to have his life abruptly ended by someone else (Blackbeard ).
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Old 2009-07-14, 18:09   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
SI also believe that Whitebeard is going to be the first one to reach the admirals at the execution platform. It is there where he will be overwhelmed by them only to have his life abruptly ended by someone else (Blackbeard ).
*Snap* *Snap*...Wake up...
I see you was dreaming there for a minute...
I don't even know how Blackbeard is going to get there anyway...
He's still at Impel Down for all we know..
He recruited a Level 6 prisoner into his crew which isn't going to sit well...
I actually think Marco is strong enough to fight against an Admiral...
He is the First Commander... For some reason I think Marco is a Haki-user..
I think Marco Vs. Admiral (don't know which one)...
Whitebeard will pawn whoever gets in his way...
Probably Whitebeard Vs. Sengoku...
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Weed, there is nothing wrong with it.. Seriously what's so bad about it? Smoking weed and eating out your fridge and laughing at the simple things? Or getting in fights and causing injury and accidents. Beer is the destruction of this nation, Herb is the healer! Don't listen, make your own choices!
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Old 2009-07-14, 18:27   Link #48
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
*Snap* *Snap*...Wake up...
I see you was dreaming there for a minute...
I don't even know how Blackbeard is going to get there anyway...
He's still at Impel Down for all we know..
He recruited a Level 6 prisoner into his crew which isn't going to sit well...
I actually think Marco is strong enough to fight against an Admiral...
He is the First Commander... For some reason I think Marco is a Haki-user..
I think Marco Vs. Admiral (don't know which one)...
Whitebeard will pawn whoever gets in his way...
Probably Whitebeard Vs. Sengoku...
I'm not dreaming at all, my friend. It all goes back to when Shanks said that Blackbeard would one day attempt to dethrone Whitebeard of his status, and we know that Shanks' words do hold merit (he was absolutely right about how dangerous Blackbeard was and knew full well both the short term and long term repercussions of having Ace confront him). Blackbeard is all about efficiency, so knowing him, he would strike Whitebeard at the most opportune time (after being exhausted from intense battle). Even if he doesn't get the final blow, Blackbeard did say that he was going to do something that would shake the entire world. Whatever that is, it may end up being so bad to the point where he would be deemed worthy of emperor status (after Whitebeard's demise).

Whitebeard should be able to defeat an admiral by himself, but I think that two is stretching it. If he's strong enough to solo all three admirals, the power balance would make very little sense.
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Old 2009-07-14, 18:58   Link #49
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What power balance right now it 100,000 plus war lords vs 1600 WB crew give or take a few . Not counting luffy or who ever the else shows up.
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Old 2009-07-14, 19:17   Link #50
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What power balance right now it 100,000 plus war lords vs 1600 WB crew give or take a few . Not counting luffy or who ever the else shows up.
Marines = Shichibukai = Yonkou

1/4 of a world power (Whitebeard and his crew) are taking on two world powers (Marines and Shichibukai). Logic dictates that they shouldn't have enough power to win this war. If Whitebeard and his crew have the power to stalemate these two forces, they (as in Marines and Shichibukai) would have been wiped out a long time ago, especially when considering that there are 3 other emperors who are relatively close to Whitebeard in strength.
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Old 2009-07-14, 19:57   Link #51
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The power balance really don't mean much right now. If WB lose or wins hell even if is a draw the balance is already in trouble. We already have 2 war lords who left . Who knows what others going to do . They could be with the marines and then change side the next second.

If WB dies the balance is broken , if he wins it broken also . The balance was broken as soon as marines get BB on there side if you remember what Kuma said.

Now matter what happens the balance will never be the same .

Even if WB could beat the War lords and marines the balance would still be in play cause he would suffer and the other 3 Yonkou would be able to take him out .( same for the other 3 that most likely why they never try )

Plus Dragon group is not world power but they also come into play .
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Old 2009-07-14, 20:26   Link #52
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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If WB dies the balance is broken , if he wins it broken also . The balance was broken as soon as marines get BB on there side if you remember what Kuma said.

Now matter what happens the balance will never be the same .
Yeah I agree with you.
The balance was actually broken the moment Jimbei and Boa Hancock obviously choose to side with the team that's saving Ace, not to mention 2 other Shichibukai (Mihawk and Kuma) who loyalty is questionable



Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Blackbeard is all about efficiency, so knowing him, he would strike Whitebeard at the most opportune time (after being exhausted from intense battle). Even if he doesn't get the final blow, Blackbeard did say that he was going to do something that would shake the entire world. Whatever that is, it may end up being so bad to the point where he would be deemed worthy of emperor status (after Whitebeard's demise).
This is the main reason why I don't like Blackbeard...
He's sneaky, instead of challenging Whitebeard man-to-man, he'll attack him from the back or while he's down and out...
That's why I don't think he should be the final person to challenge Luffy for the title of Pirate King...
But on the other hand I kind of understand if he is...
Blackbeard is suppose to the opposite of Whitebeard (thus Black/White)...
Whitebeard is the Noble/Honorable pirate with strong morals...
Blackbeard is the exact opposite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Marines = Shichibukai = Yonkou

1/4 of a world power (Whitebeard and his crew) are taking on two world powers (Marines and Shichibukai). Logic dictates that they shouldn't have enough power to win this war. If Whitebeard and his crew have the power to stalemate these two forces, they (as in Marines and Shichibukai) would have been wiped out a long time ago, especially when considering that there are 3 other emperors who are relatively close to Whitebeard in strength.
Actually I think the fact that the Government found it necessary to get all of their marine force and Shichibukai to fight against Whitebeard says volumes of his strength...
Whitebeard is dubbed "The Ruler of the Seas"...
Him taking on 3 Admirals is stretching it (in my opinion)... but 2 seems very logical giving his title...
Along with the fact that he was only man to equal Gol D. Roger, so seeing his strength in battle we should be able to get a taste of what Gol D. Roger strength is (even though Whitebeard has aged)...
I actually think Whitebeard is the strongest even among the Yonkou...
Whitebeard should give a performance fitting of his title
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Weed, there is nothing wrong with it.. Seriously what's so bad about it? Smoking weed and eating out your fridge and laughing at the simple things? Or getting in fights and causing injury and accidents. Beer is the destruction of this nation, Herb is the healer! Don't listen, make your own choices!
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Old 2009-07-14, 21:11   Link #53
Hisoka??
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I see no reason to reveal ace's relation to gol d roger unless ace has a further role to play or if it means that gol d roger might reappear.

I predict either gol d roger appears to "save the day" or:

Whitebeard dies at the end of this arc and ace picks up his mantle to lead the crew and aim towards his father's legacy.
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Old 2009-07-14, 22:16   Link #54
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Ace's goal this whole time has been to exalt Whitebeard to pirate king status. Since he has never had a dream for himself, he has essentially relinquished his own dream in favor of fulfilling his captain's ascension in power. This has been a known fact ever since his debut in Alabasta.

Also, having opposition in one's way doesn't mean that there won't be freedom. The way I interpreted the moral of the message from Ace's flashback last chapter was that you "choose" the path in life that you wish to take and live through it with no regrets. It's ultimately all about living life how you "want" to (i.e. Ace living the life of a pirate), not turning your back on your ideals (i.e. Ace refusing to accept Blackbeard's offer to join his crew; otherwise, he would be a traitor and break the vow of eventually making Whitebeard the pirate king), and that there is no fate but what you make for yourself (i.e. Your actions are the pivotal factor in determining what awaits you in the future). It is with this "freedom of choice" in mind, that Ace feels one should not have any complaints/regrets for what fate lies ahead of them.


Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. Also, if Ace actually DID know that Roger was his dad, then I can only assume that denying his connections to him and becoming the surrogate son of his father's greatest known rival was his idea of freeing himself of his fate as son of the pirate king. If that was the case, then his plan backfired on him....



But you know, thinking it over now, Blackbeard probably knew about Ace's lineage all along. It's really no wonder that he instantly became a Shichibukai after handing Ace over to the marines instead of Luffy. It's like losing a dollar and finding $100 in its place, no?




Quote:
Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
He said that he left them with a guy that trained them...
So we can assume that it was a guy who taught them how to fight..

Not saying you're wrong or anything, but here's Garp's line as translated by well-known translator Stephen:


Quote:
Garp: Ultimately, I left him with a friend, to train together with Ace,
but once I let my eyes off him, look what happens...
I disciplined you so that you would be a SAILOR!!!


I also recall other translations that referred to Luffy and Ace's caretaker as Garp's friend when the chapter originally came out, but unfortunately I can't find them now. Anyways, I think it's too soon to assume that it was a guy who trained the brothers in their youth.....




By the way, a script for the chapter came out. It actually starts out with people all over the world talking about the execution. Of course, there are some who are asking about Whitebeard (interestingly enough, there are some people who think that his age may have caught up with him.....). Also, before Sengoku makes his speech, he tells Garp that he was going to reveal everything to the crowd, but the vice-admiral didn't seem to mind at all......



And now, about the history of Ace's birth: Sengoku says that the marines have actually been searching for him for quite a long time. The only hints they had came from reports from some Cipher Pol agents that had reported his birth, but they still had trouble locating the infant Ace and his mother. The reason for thati s because Portgas D. Rouge managed to trick the marines by keeping her baby in her belly for 20 months, out of sheer willpower. But eventually, Ace was born in Batelira, an island in South Blue, one year and 3 months after Gold Roger's death.....



...Damn, so while she wasn't pregnant for a full 2 years, it was still awfully close. Of course, Sengoku said that she died from the strain of such a massively-delayed childbirth. The rest we already know (about Roger asking Garp to save Ace's life and whatnot). Now I'm more interested in Rouge than ever before. She must be quite an awesome character, considering she's the first female D to appear in the series. To evade the marines' clutches while carrying a baby for so long really does bring to mind the epic feats of other flashback characters like Fisher Tiger and Jaguar D. Sauro. I'm really hoping that we'll get that full flashback on Ace's history within the next few chapters......



Oh, and Buggy's still bragging about how he'll become king of the world when his group is shown outside the gate of justice. Man, I can't wait to see what hijinks he'll get involved in when the war starts! The idea of him accidentally becoming an emporer is becoming a lot more appealing to me at this point after all!
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Old 2009-07-14, 22:40   Link #55
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But you know, thinking it over now, Blackbeard probably knew about Ace's lineage all along. It's really no wonder that he instantly became a Shichibukai after handing Ace over to the marines instead of Luffy. It's like losing a dollar and finding $100 in its place, no?
Man i was thinking the same thing. Given Blackbeards scheming nature and all. If he did plan this all out then Blackbeard is far more cunning than i ever thought. Then he may indeed have some dark designs of his own.

However, one has to wonder if what Luffy will think about this considering his own ambition.
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Last edited by Crusader; 2009-07-14 at 22:42. Reason: Terrible typist I tell you!
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Old 2009-07-14, 23:12   Link #56
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Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. Also, if Ace actually DID know that Roger was his dad, then I can only assume that denying his connections to him and becoming the surrogate son of his father's greatest known rival was his idea of freeing himself of his fate as son of the pirate king. If that was the case, then his plan backfired on him....



But you know, thinking it over now, Blackbeard probably knew about Ace's lineage all along. It's really no wonder that he instantly became a Shichibukai after handing Ace over to the marines instead of Luffy. It's like losing a dollar and finding $100 in its place, no?







Not saying you're wrong or anything, but here's Garp's line as translated by well-known translator Stephen:






I also recall other translations that referred to Luffy and Ace's caretaker as Garp's friend when the chapter originally came out, but unfortunately I can't find them now. Anyways, I think it's too soon to assume that it was a guy who trained the brothers in their youth.....




By the way, a script for the chapter came out. It actually starts out with people all over the world talking about the execution. Of course, there are some who are asking about Whitebeard (interestingly enough, there are some people who think that his age may have caught up with him.....). Also, before Sengoku makes his speech, he tells Garp that he was going to reveal everything to the crowd, but the vice-admiral didn't seem to mind at all......



And now, about the history of Ace's birth: Sengoku says that the marines have actually been searching for him for quite a long time. The only hints they had came from reports from some Cipher Pol agents that had reported his birth, but they still had trouble locating the infant Ace and his mother. The reason for thati s because Portgas D. Rouge managed to trick the marines by keeping her baby in her belly for 20 months, out of sheer willpower. But eventually, Ace was born in Batelira, an island in South Blue, one year and 3 months after Gold Roger's death.....



...Damn, so while she wasn't pregnant for a full 2 years, it was still awfully close. Of course, Sengoku said that she died from the strain of such a massively-delayed childbirth. The rest we already know (about Roger asking Garp to save Ace's life and whatnot). Now I'm more interested in Rouge than ever before. She must be quite an awesome character, considering she's the first female D to appear in the series. To evade the marines' clutches while carrying a baby for so long really does bring to mind the epic feats of other flashback characters like Fisher Tiger and Jaguar D. Sauro. I'm really hoping that we'll get that full flashback on Ace's history within the next few chapters......



Oh, and Buggy's still bragging about how he'll become king of the world when his group is shown outside the gate of justice. Man, I can't wait to see what hijinks he'll get involved in when the war starts! The idea of him accidentally becoming an emporer is becoming a lot more appealing to me at this point after all!
agree. would be hilarious if buggy became the pirate king at the end of the story. Luffy could achieved the title then pass it to buggy because he was bored and wanted to go back to adventuring with his small crew.
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Old 2009-07-14, 23:15   Link #57
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And now, about the history of Ace's birth: Sengoku says that the marines have actually been searching for him for quite a long time. The only hints they had came from reports from some Cipher Pol agents that had reported his birth, but they still had trouble locating the infant Ace and his mother. The reason for thati s because Portgas D. Rouge managed to trick the marines by keeping her baby in her belly for 20 months, out of sheer willpower. But eventually, Ace was born in Batelira, an island in South Blue, one year and 3 months after Gold Roger's death.....
Damn, Haki really can do everything....

Last edited by james0246; 2009-07-14 at 23:38.
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Old 2009-07-14, 23:20   Link #58
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Damn, Haki can really do everything....
no one said it was haki. it's just one of those unexplainable things that happens in stories.....

anyway no one is show what exactly haki is anyway
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Old 2009-07-15, 00:29   Link #59
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This chapter is cool.

Oda delivers.
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Old 2009-07-15, 01:32   Link #60
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
This is the main reason why I don't like Blackbeard...
He's sneaky, instead of challenging Whitebeard man-to-man, he'll attack him from the back or while he's down and out...
That's why I don't think he should be the final person to challenge Luffy for the title of Pirate King...
He's being smart by not trying to challenge Whitebeard directly. Whitebeard is the undisputed strongest man alive, and Blackbeard must know all too well (since he spent decades on Whitebeard's ship) that he cannot beat him at his current state.

Everything is too convenient for Blackbeard right now. It doesn't really matter who the victor is, because in the aftermath of this whole skirmish, both sides are sure to be severely weakened. It is then when Blackbeard will capitalize on this opportunity to rise in power, since his opposition will be greatly diminished. Think of it as killing two birds with one stone .

Quote:
Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
I actually think Whitebeard is the strongest even among the Yonkou...
Whitebeard should give a performance fitting of his title
You are correct. Whitebeard is the strongest out of the 4 emperors, and this is known for sure just based on his title of "Strongest Man in the World". The remaining 3 are presumably close to his level of power.
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