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Old 2009-07-14, 20:44   Link #161
TakariCritic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan View Post
It is exactly Sasaki's rational mind that I depend my entire conjecture on. Takamura Mamoru although made his point as a mean to address his rationale against Sasaki, I see that being the catalyst for Sasaki to force herself into the frey, because a rational mind will see the unstable nature to Tachibana and others pushing her as all too insulting.
You raise several valid points about Sasaki's potential intent on involvement, but I still feel she's more inclined to observe. Of course, with the seperate timelines occuring, we might both end up being right.
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Old 2009-07-14, 20:44   Link #162
Takamura Mamoru
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I can't really remember anything about Haruhi's powers diminishing..
When was that said? Is there any valid proof?

But even then, it's uncertain if Haruhi can affect the Data Entity with her powers, since it's unrelated to space and time. It wasn't affected by the time loop either, after all. Kyon basically bet on "Haruhi will figure something out".

Well, it does work, seeing how the Entity is scared.
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Old 2009-07-14, 20:47   Link #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takamura Mamoru View Post
I can't really remember anything about Haruhi's powers diminishing..
When was that said? Is there any valid proof?
Well, consider the lack of Haruhi's active powers from December to spring. During that time, all the stories have revolved around factors other than Haruhi warping reality. Unfortunately, the only basis for this theory is Koizumi's word, which we should take with a grain of salt.
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Old 2009-07-14, 20:48   Link #164
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takamura Mamoru View Post
I can't really remember anything about Haruhi's powers diminishing..
When was that said? Is there any valid proof?

But even then, it's uncertain if Haruhi can affect the Data Entity with her powers, since it's unrelated to space and time. It wasn't affected by the time loop either, after all. Kyon basically bet on "Haruhi will figure something out".

Well, it does work, seeing how the Entity is scared.
Yuki using Haruhi's powers destroyed it for three days. It remembers that.

And Koizumi was the one who said her power is diminishing. Or, at the least, she's not creating anymore closed space and isn't dicking with the universe.

But that was Vol. 8. In Vol. 9... she's back to creating ridiculous amounts of closed space again.

THAAAAANKS SASAAAAKIII
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Old 2009-07-14, 20:51   Link #165
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Yeah, but the Shinjin aren't destroying stuff at all.
You may interpret that in any way you want.
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Old 2009-07-14, 20:54   Link #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takamura Mamoru View Post
Yeah, but the Shinjin aren't destroying stuff at all.
You may interpret that in any way you want.
Haruhi isn't frustrated, she's depressed? Isn't that EXACTLY what Koizumi says?

The solution is, as always, obvious. And, as always, Kyon will find a way to save the day without doing the obvious.

Dammit Kyon.
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Old 2009-07-14, 20:55   Link #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takamura Mamoru View Post
Yeah, but the Shinjin aren't destroying stuff at all.
You may interpret that in any way you want.
I have a theory about this, but its not too thought out or backed up by canon events, but consider the following:

Sasaki met Kyon, then Haruhi and the others. The next week, she bumped into Kyon once more, this time with the Anti-SOS Brigade, commenting how they're acquaintances, and recently met.

Could it be possible that Sasaki's been bestowed the "old god" abilities after Haruhi met her? After all, Koizumi claimed to have done a full backround check on Kyon and his past connections. Don't you think he would have mentioned his old best friend being the center of his rival organization?
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Old 2009-07-14, 20:58   Link #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakariCritic View Post
I have a theory about this, but its not too thought out or backed up by canon events, but consider the following:

Sasaki met Kyon, then Haruhi and the others. The next week, she bumped into Kyon once more, this time with the Anti-SOS Brigade, commenting how they're acquaintances, and recently met.

Could it be possible that Sasaki's been bestowed the "old god" abilities after Haruhi met her? After all, Koizumi claimed to have done a full backround check on Kyon and his past connections. Don't you think he would have mentioned his old best friend being the center of his rival organization?
See my above post, but... until recently, Koizumi's espers had no idea that the other espers were after another god at all.
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Old 2009-07-14, 20:59   Link #169
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
but... until recently, Koizumi's espers had no idea that the other espers were after another god at all.
Ah, but didn't Kyouko claim that her group had disagreements with Koizumi's group as to the source of their powers? Wouldn't that have been a clue?

Quote:
And that is the 'Organization'?
"Yes, they are the ones who treat Suzumiya-san with godlike status. And
conflicts broke out between us, thinking that their opinion is wrong. In order
to correct them, we met them many times as well. And yet they said we are
in the wrong and refused to believe us no matter what. We are unable to
accept their views, much less for them to do the same. Finally we talked
about breaking off......"
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Old 2009-07-14, 21:00   Link #170
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I don't think Koizumi would've mentioned anything to Kyon since he only falls on a need-to-know basis on matter of that kind of importance.

As for getting the 'god' ability in making anything you sincerely believe in from the bottom of your heart to happen, it's anyone's guess.
I mean would what Sasaki sincerely wishes to happen be leaving the universe running 'its' course or letting the universe running 'her' course...

Tachibana is hoping that it'd be 'her' course, but Sasaki hasn't actively pushed her own course in the light of the 'universal' course, thus giving me some doubt as to what Sasaki, who loves run of the mill would rather see.
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Old 2009-07-14, 21:05   Link #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan View Post
Tachibana is hoping that it'd be 'her' course, but Sasaki hasn't actively pushed her own course in the light of the 'universal' course, thus giving me some doubt as to what Sasaki, who loves run of the mill would rather see.
I posted it earlier, but... this?

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Old 2009-07-14, 23:56   Link #172
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There are always more questions.

There is the question on if Haruhi is the god of the universe. If she died would anything happen? According to the aliens, espers, and time travelers she only started warping reality four years ago (by the time of book 9). Therefore either there was another "god" before her, or she's an anomaly in time-space. If one removes the anomaly, would anything bad happen? Would anything good happen? Moving her powers changes the anomaly, but does not remove it from existance. The changes are unpredicable, and to the aliens, time travelers, and espers, that is a bad thing. However we seem to be looking in the short term. What about the long term? Could Haruhi pass this power to her children? Will this power go away when she gets old and dies (her rational mind would have her age and die like a normal person, otherwise she'd still exist in Mikuru's time.)? We know the power can be moved or at least taken over by another and it is assumed that it can be taken over by Sasaki as well, though do we have proof that it will work?

Then we have the sliders...where are they from? Who are they? What do they want? Why did they come to Haruhi's universe at this time, or have they been there for four years and just not come out of the shadows until this crisis? Will they stay around after the story ends?

Will the aliens delete Yuki once there mission is complete? Maybe. Are they likely to get the answer they are looking for? No. Or if they do, the answer will be Yuki and thus they can't delete her. Are Haruhi's powers lessening? Probably not, she's just more stable now than before. There might come a time when she has no outbursts of data, but then what will the aliens observe? Will the Ryoko-like faction have to do something in order to gain the knowledge they need to evolve? Or is Yuki doing the evolving? Even with Haruhi being stable, can Kyon still use his fail safe if the aliens come to delete Yuki? Oh yes...the safe word is in effect. All he needs to do is prove he's "John Smith", then the universe will tremble at the power of Haruhi.

Will the Time travelers recall Mikuru(small)? Yes. Will Mikuru(BIG) take over the mission if needed? Maybe. We don't have enough information...because it is classified.

What will the espers do with a stable Haruhi? Relax. Will they continue to worship her from a distance. Probably. What about if she dies? They will worry like all getout that the universe will end, then maybe become normal once she passes...or maybe they won't but have to find a new mission.

And what of Kyon? Well what of him, he's Kyon.
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Old 2009-07-15, 02:18   Link #173
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All I can say about the separate time lines/alternate worlds??? is... OMG, are we finally getting a slider in the mix???
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Old 2009-07-15, 02:24   Link #174
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Yes. It's implied that the freshman girl who called Kyon ("I just wanted to hear sempai's voice"), was described in physical detail by Kyon, and was miscounted by Kyon from the hallway into the classroom is the Slider.
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Old 2009-07-15, 02:30   Link #175
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I dare say... Kyon is building quite the harem...
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Old 2009-07-15, 02:33   Link #176
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Harem is too strong a word to describe it. Kyon's too much of an individual to make it a conventional scenario at any rate. If anything, it's more like the other characters, including Koizumi, are setting off their Kyon flag in their lives and not the other way around.

@I took a cheap jab at Koizumi there, but maybe this is warranted since no one can be truly certain of his intents.
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Last edited by panzerfan; 2009-07-15 at 03:15.
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Old 2009-07-15, 02:39   Link #177
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Koizumi isn't gay. He wants Haruhi. There's enough hints strewn throughout the novels to make that obvious.
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Old 2009-07-15, 02:46   Link #178
ac195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan View Post
Harem is too strong a word to describe it. Kyon's too much of an individual to make it a conventional scenario at any rate. If anything, it's more like the other characters, including Koizumi, are setting off their Kyon flag in their lives and not the other way around.
Too true... he's gonna end up Haruhi's whipping boy for the rest of his life (of course he's gonna be secretly loving every second of it :P). I've read a couple of earlier post and I just don't see any other pairing that will work... hell, I'd love Nagato to be around at the end but I've got a feeling that she's gonna disappear in epic fashion (ala Saber in F/SN) when all's said and done...

Still, at the rate the light novels are going... who knows...
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Old 2009-07-15, 04:23   Link #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
There are always more questions.

There is the question on if Haruhi is the god of the universe. If she died would anything happen? According to the aliens, espers, and time travelers she only started warping reality four years ago (by the time of book 9). Therefore either there was another "god" before her, or she's an anomaly in time-space. If one removes the anomaly, would anything bad happen? Would anything good happen? Moving her powers changes the anomaly, but does not remove it from existance. The changes are unpredicable, and to the aliens, time travelers, and espers, that is a bad thing. However we seem to be looking in the short term. What about the long term? Could Haruhi pass this power to her children? Will this power go away when she gets old and dies (her rational mind would have her age and die like a normal person, otherwise she'd still exist in Mikuru's time.)? We know the power can be moved or at least taken over by another and it is assumed that it can be taken over by Sasaki as well, though do we have proof that it will work?

Then we have the sliders...where are they from? Who are they? What do they want? Why did they come to Haruhi's universe at this time, or have they been there for four years and just not come out of the shadows until this crisis? Will they stay around after the story ends?

Will the aliens delete Yuki once there mission is complete? Maybe. Are they likely to get the answer they are looking for? No. Or if they do, the answer will be Yuki and thus they can't delete her. Are Haruhi's powers lessening? Probably not, she's just more stable now than before. There might come a time when she has no outbursts of data, but then what will the aliens observe? Will the Ryoko-like faction have to do something in order to gain the knowledge they need to evolve? Or is Yuki doing the evolving? Even with Haruhi being stable, can Kyon still use his fail safe if the aliens come to delete Yuki? Oh yes...the safe word is in effect. All he needs to do is prove he's "John Smith", then the universe will tremble at the power of Haruhi.

Will the Time travelers recall Mikuru(small)? Yes. Will Mikuru(BIG) take over the mission if needed? Maybe. We don't have enough information...because it is classified.

What will the espers do with a stable Haruhi? Relax. Will they continue to worship her from a distance. Probably. What about if she dies? They will worry like all getout that the universe will end, then maybe become normal once she passes...or maybe they won't but have to find a new mission.

And what of Kyon? Well what of him, he's Kyon.
All interesting questions, but you missed a couple.

My question is, Did the Universe exist more then 4 years ago?

If So, did the Aliens, Time Travellers, Espers & Sliders exist?

Going by Koizumi's logic that Haruhi created the Haruhiverse, they shouldn't exist.

I can see Espers not existing since they're directly linked to Haruhi but Aliens, Travellers & Slider could have exist Prior to 4 Years ago.

What about the HI-TECH THING found on Tsuruya's residence (the hill) in Volume 7?

Does it have any connection of any of the 4 factions (Aliens, Time Traverllers Epsers & Sliders)

Since it was left in the past, prior to 4 years ago I'm leanning heavily to the Aliens, maybe not Yuki's Faction... it could be any alien, since they appear to be more then capable of time travel.

Why not Time Travellers? Because of Haruhi stopped them, going by that logic, no matter when you are in time post Haruhi, you can't travel any further then 4 years in the past, present Haruhi novel time, but from Mikuru's explaination to Kyon, it sounded almost like there was a time the Time Travellers could travel further then 4 years in the past?... hmm I have to go back and read to confirm.

What are the goals of the 3 opposing factions from the AntiSOS?

We have learned something about their goals but I'm Skeptical.

I'd especially like to learn of the opposing Alien's factions goals... I hate them for hurting Nagato, but I don't think they're evil, they just have more problems communicating then Nagato's faction. It maybe a while before they bypass communication barrier where they can fully & properly communicate.

Does the Slider faction also have an opposing faction also?

Will there be a 5th faction, dealing with the paranormal eg- ghost? Haruhi seemsed interested in Volume 8.
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Old 2009-07-15, 04:32   Link #180
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Originally Posted by kniteowl View Post
My question is, Did the Universe exist more then 4 years ago?
In Mysterque Sign, it's said that the cave cricket came to earth billions of years ago, so 'yes'.
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