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View Poll Results: Clannad - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 211 60.81%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 49 14.12%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 23 6.63%
7 out of 10 : Good 20 5.76%
6 out of 10 : Average 19 5.48%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 0.86%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 0.86%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 0.58%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 3 0.86%
1 out of 10 : Painful 14 4.03%
Voters: 347. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-07-16, 18:31   Link #861
Archon_Wing
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I just go by Stewie on this.
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Old 2009-07-16, 23:05   Link #862
DeX-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Basic problem with "giving the audiance the finger" theory is that they didn't. Simply put, the previous episodes effect and change Tomoya and this is proven in episode 24 even more so than in 22. If this had been the finger treatment, the previous episodes would do nothing to Tomoya and just be for the audiance to try and get some meaning out of them.

Secondly, this is how the original source material ended, though after a series of going through every game arc, again and again until you managed to get through them all. Then you get to see this ending. By that point in time, the "player" deserves this ended and is meant to feel that Tomoya deserves it as well.

However, if the ending had been just 21...I think it would have felt like a finger to the viewer/player. All that, for nothing...just a dead family...mother, father and child. It wouldn't feel right when you have other mystical things happening around them (a cat that gets turned into a human for a time, a girl that's spirit can go around and carve starfish for her sister's wedding. and a guy that can survive multiple forced head trauma from dictonary impacts and repeated rapid kicks to his person).
What he said Yeah, that's pretty much how things are. People say "why couldn't it have been this way or that way" but fact of the matter is that this anime is based off a visual novel where the true ending belongs to Nagisa and is the canon plot. We don't have control of what the creators want to do, they create something for us and we just have to watch it and judge it. Some people will like it, some will not but the majority loved this series and there are numbers everywhere to prove it.

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I just go by Stewie on this.
"Hopefully, they would have enjoyed the ride" Yeah but there is a difference with events that didn't happen and those that did. Everything we saw happened and we got a happy ending to boot So all is well that ends well
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Old 2009-07-17, 01:19   Link #863
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Haha, reminds me of this other scene from family guy...
"Well, if you don't like it, then complain about it on the internet."

Which I didn't. I actually watched this episode of Clannad again after it ended. Then one more time.

Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2009-07-17 at 02:00.
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Old 2009-07-17, 04:39   Link #864
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Basic problem with "giving the audiance the finger" theory is that they didn't. Simply put, the previous episodes effect and change Tomoya and this is proven in episode 24 even more so than in 22. If this had been the finger treatment, the previous episodes would do nothing to Tomoya and just be for the audiance to try and get some meaning out of them.
Well that's what me and Dex are debating in the other thread.

Quote:
Secondly, this is how the original source material ended, though after a series of going through every game arc, again and again until you managed to get through them all. Then you get to see this ending. By that point in time, the "player" deserves this ended and is meant to feel that Tomoya deserves it as well.
In the game yes, not in the anime. If i watched episode 22 and someone told me I needed to play the game to understand that would belike a giant middle finger too. And the fact that Tomoya deserves a happy ending doesn't mean a damn thing. That's why sad endings are so sad. Just because it's from original source material doesn't mean a damn thing either

Quote:
However, if the ending had been just 21...I think it would have felt like a finger to the viewer/player. All that, for nothing...just a dead family...mother, father and child. It wouldn't feel right when you have other mystical things happening around them (a cat that gets turned into a human for a time, a girl that's spirit can go around and carve starfish for her sister's wedding. and a guy that can survive multiple forced head trauma from dictonary impacts and repeated rapid kicks to his person).
Well that's why plot devices are made aren't they? Because the writers reached a dead end?
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Old 2009-07-17, 07:16   Link #865
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
If i watched episode 22 and someone told me I needed to play the game to understand that would belike a giant middle finger too. And the fact that Tomoya deserves a happy ending doesn't mean a damn thing. That's why sad endings are so sad. Just because it's from original source material doesn't mean a damn thing either
No, but it wasn't incomprehensible in the anime. I got it, and I hadn't played the game until after I watched this episode. After all the foreshadowing about the lights and such (particularly Yukine's arc), it would have been a giant middle finger to not use them and have Tomoya die uselessly.
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Well that's why plot devices are made aren't they? Because the writers reached a dead end?
Plot Devices Are Not Bad. They can be used well and not well. And since nothing's original these days, it's easy to call anything we've seen even once before a 'plot device'. Things are simply used again well, and we call them 'good', or not used again well and therefore safely ignored. Don't make me link TVTropes on you.
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Old 2009-07-17, 09:11   Link #866
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Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge View Post
No, but it wasn't incomprehensible in the anime. I got it, and I hadn't played the game until after I watched this episode. After all the foreshadowing about the lights and such (particularly Yukine's arc), it would have been a giant middle finger to not use them and have Tomoya die uselessly.Plot Devices Are Not Bad. They can be used well and not well. And since nothing's original these days, it's easy to call anything we've seen even once before a 'plot device'. Things are simply used again well, and we call them 'good', or not used again well and therefore safely ignored. Don't make me link TVTropes on you.
I know it would've been a gaint middle finger not to use them and I know that plot devices aren't bad. It's just that I wished they were used and a happy ending was achieved in a way that didn't break my suspension of disbelief. And the reason I think it did break my suspension of disbelief is because i think it sort of contradicted all the messages the anime has been giving.
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Old 2009-07-17, 09:19   Link #867
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And the reason I think it did break my suspension of disbelief is because i think it sort of contradicted all the messages the anime has been giving.
I'm intrigued. Care to expound?
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Old 2009-07-17, 09:23   Link #868
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post

This anime focuses on family, how they cope with difficulties, in addition to a dose of love, hope & miracles for good measure.

That was the theme of the game, you know.

- Tak
Also about accepting change (sort if ties in with dealing with difficulties). Also that this anime was about Tomoya developing as a person (I'm currently debating with Dex about that in the other thread)

btw do you know how to make animated avatars?
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Old 2009-07-17, 09:29   Link #869
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Also about accepting change (sort if ties in with dealing with difficulties). Also that this anime was about Tomoya developing as a person (I'm currently debating with Dex about that in the other thread)
I'm not sure it undermined it. It was clear to me that the illustration of the end of 21 was that Tomoya could not cope... and through realizing that he'd rather have what he had and lose it than to not have it at all... It was about him losing his family (again), but finally realizing that he'd rather have it with all of its ups and downs than to not have it at all. So... I can see how the ending might be slightly sideways to that, but I see it that he earned his happy ending with that realization.

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btw do you know how to make animated avatars?
I do, though I did not make this one.
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Old 2009-07-17, 12:45   Link #870
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I'm not sure it undermined it. It was clear to me that the illustration of the end of 21 was that Tomoya could not cope... and through realizing that he'd rather have what he had and lose it than to not have it at all... It was about him losing his family (again), but finally realizing that he'd rather have it with all of its ups and downs than to not have it at all. So... I can see how the ending might be slightly sideways to that, but I see it that he earned his happy ending with that realization.
I'm not really that bothered, but I just feel it could be better. It's just that I've thought of atleast two different endings that I think would be better, and I'm kinda pissed neither happened. I'll admit though, the endings I'm thinking of probably aren't any better from a purely objective standpoint. This is guy who just loves "A Song of Ice and Fire" series.

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I do, though I did not make this one.
If it's not to much to ask:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...56#post2509956
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Old 2010-05-19, 01:06   Link #871
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WOW!!!! What an ending, Clap, Clap if you Believe. I looked all over but couldn't find an AMV for this series, to "Don't Stop Believing" I had a feeling there was going to be a "reset" of sorts, when Kotome was talking about alternate worlds and what not, I do like how they did it. "The Curtain Call/epilogue" as it were, was great to see what most of the characters were up to. Fuuko's scene was great, but just a little too long. I will say along with watching this show another highlight, was seeing Destiny4everlove's comments, and monkey/dango emoticons each episode.
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Old 2010-05-19, 01:15   Link #872
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Overall series rating and review. DO EET NAO.
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Old 2010-05-19, 02:02   Link #873
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Ah, while there are some gripes I have with this episode (18 was definitely the peak when it came to quality and impact) such as the acid trip, spending too much time on Fuko, and not nearly enough on everyone else, it proved to be a suitable end to Clannad.

Clannad is about family and life. Like the its counterparts Air and Kanon, it's also about miracles--Clannad started with a series of small miracles that accumulated to the biggest one of them all.

Ultimately, it just summarizes what I got from all 3 of the Key shows:
Round and round we go, a similar tone, a similar melody, that repeats and gets more beautiful every time it's heard.
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Old 2010-05-20, 01:55   Link #874
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I like how everyone but my favorite character gets to lead a happy life. They must really hate Tomoyo or something, since she's the only one doesn't even get so much as a smile at the end. What could she have been doing all this time?

Still, the sunset scene was a bittersweet brand of beautiful. Tomoya, you fool, look at what you missed out on. :P
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Old 2010-05-20, 06:44   Link #875
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They must really hate Tomoyo or something,
Nah; she got her own after story game.
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Old 2010-05-20, 19:49   Link #876
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Oh sure, they do that after the fact. They must have realized they messed up horribly with her in the main arc and gave her the ending she deserved.
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Old 2010-11-07, 10:03   Link #877
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clannad after story was the most emotional anime i have ever watched. Like seriously, an amazing anime...i cried the hardest i have in years in the last couple of episodes(more than angel beats, toradora, and ect). And ushio is so cute... i liked after story more than season 1. at first i was a tomoyo x tomoya supporter, but after seeing after story, i loved Nagisa x tomoya. . i have so much emotional attachment towards this anime...
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Old 2010-11-09, 11:02   Link #878
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Considering that Tomoya helped nearly everyone around him, only to have his wife and his only child die in front of his eyes, he deserves a happy ending. It really makes no sense for him to become a drunken wreck like his father, recover to take care of Ushio, then go back to being depressed. It'd be the worst Bad End ever, because he really did nothing to deserve his fate.

The Illusionary World is still a bit vague and unclear, but I'm glad at how things turned out.
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Old 2011-02-20, 18:11   Link #879
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the author just wants a happy ending..thinking about the people you love dies, how will the author gives the story a inspiring ending after so many inspiring episodes.
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Old 2011-09-11, 14:08   Link #880
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I understand feelings of not liking it but Im a sucker for happy endings and was just distraught when Nagisa died. So when she was brought back I frickin loved it.

I understood the lights and city's power from the start so in my mind im not shocked by the ending but I was such a huge fan of Nagisa I dont think I would have cared how they did it as long as she was back

I was happy with him becoming a father after 5 years but I just felt a hole in my heart since Nagisa died . This series has become my favorite and it still is in my mind all the time and I usually only watch shounen anime(naruto fairy tail etc).

frickin loved it
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