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Old 2009-07-18, 02:55   Link #261
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Why does all drama have to be didactic? Why does the story have to have a "message" like that? How about a troubled youth guiding a voice of reason? Or the fact that life can actually be contradictory? Anyway, I do not require that everybody always do what is best, or that people be punished for their mistakes. Not all anime have to be educational children's literature. (This is one of my disagreements with a lot of anime criticism.)
Much as I disagree with the criticisms, I do concede that they are mostly valid. After all, this show has set itself up to be highly realistic and supposedly based on "tremendous research and verification" as well as "many simulations", so it's not unfair for some people to point out the distinct lack of panic and chaos — such scenarios just do not seem realistic, especially for those who had personally experienced an earthquake.

I would argue that this anime does aim to be "educational". Other than being a simulation of a major earthquake in Tokyo, Mirai's name and her summer assignment point towards the obvious morals of caring for others and not taking people for granted. So, in this sense, it's fair to mark the show down for not living up to its own goals.

This is part and parcel of the challenge of making a good docu-drama, I suppose. Somewhere along the way, the producers have to draw a line between realism and drama. They'd want to be as realistic as possible without becoming too boring, but whether they succeed in doing so would always depend on the eyes of the beholder. One man's "sensible" is another man's "foolishness", as it were.

Well, in the end, it's like I've already said. I'm enjoying what I see at the moment. So long as the characters remain compelling, I'm more than willing to let a few details slide.
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Old 2009-07-18, 11:09   Link #262
Slice of Life
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Three rants.

About Mirai. It looks that some people here are playing the mecha pilot critique game with Mirai here. No matter what she does under normal or extraordinary circumstances, she's not nice enough, bold enough, wise enough, rational enough or whatever to find the approval of the audience who all must have been very remarkable people at the age of 13 by the standards they set.

About the "educational" nature of the anime. This is an noitamina anime directed at an adult audience. Why do you expect this to be educational? Do you want to see "Don't try this at home, kids" messages flashed over the screen? Mirai's not supposed to be an emotionless cut out from the handbook for model-citizen-behavior-in-the-face-of-disasters. And I most definitely don't want to see the Divine Wrath card pulled whenever she violates that code. So congratulation for her going into the building and rescuing her brother - and be it maybe mostly out of an irrational feeling of guilt. Anime is full of examples of behavior rewarded that has killed hundreds of thousands of people in real life so I find it strange to criticize such trivialities in any case.

About the circumstance of the disaster. People's believe on how people react under any extreme situations is most likely to 99 percent a result of a diet of TV entertainment.The very minor "catastrophes" I witnessed in RL already had some surprising outcomes. I do not know how people would react in this very particular situation. More crying and chaos and looting and shooting surely makes better pictures - so I except this to be in general overstated not understated on TV. Though I'd like to know in which scene exactly I should expect to see people looting in episode 2? (And the crime rate in Japan is very low compared to the US.) The reaction of the people might be completely unrealistic. Until I get solid proof I dismiss the talk about all that research that went into the anime as a PR move to drag in more viewers anyway. Research costs money, claiming to have done it doesn't. And maybe there are some Japanese psychologists with an expertise on that field already laughing their asses of. However, most of us don't have that expertise and I've seen nothing that made me raise a brow yet.
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Old 2009-07-18, 11:14   Link #263
Craymel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Much as I disagree with the criticisms, I do concede that they are mostly valid. After all, this show has set itself up to be highly realistic and supposedly based on "tremendous research and verification" as well as "many simulations", so it's not unfair for some people to point out the distinct lack of panic and chaos — such scenarios just do not seem realistic, especially for those who had personally experienced an earthquake.

I would argue that this anime does aim to be "educational". Other than being a simulation of a major earthquake in Tokyo, Mirai's name and her summer assignment point towards the obvious morals of caring for others and not taking people for granted. So, in this sense, it's fair to mark the show down for not living up to its own goals.

This is part and parcel of the challenge of making a good docu-drama, I suppose. Somewhere along the way, the producers have to draw a line between realism and drama. They'd want to be as realistic as possible without becoming too boring, but whether they succeed in doing so would always depend on the eyes of the beholder. One man's "sensible" is another man's "foolishness", as it were.

Well, in the end, it's like I've already said. I'm enjoying what I see at the moment. So long as the characters remain compelling, I'm more than willing to let a few details slide.
I really don't feel this anime's goal is to educate mainly because it really hasn't and I highly doubt bones was trying to convey what you should and shouldn't do in an earthquake. In the second episode they were just trying to convey Miria's desperate search for her brother even if it was dangerous.
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Old 2009-07-18, 11:27   Link #264
Guardian Enzo
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I also disagree with the reference to this as a "docu-drama". This is not a docu-drama and makes no claims to be one. It's an entertainment, plain and simple, and has no obligation to make sure it's characters are "good examples". Just because a show is trying to convey a degree of realism (which, FTR, I believe this show does extraordinarily well so far) doesn't make it a docu-drama.
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Old 2009-07-18, 11:53   Link #265
Blaat
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For people complaining about the lack of looting I would like to point out that the Great Hanshin Earthquake (the most destructive earthquake in Japan in recent times) had no reported cases of looting.
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Old 2009-07-18, 12:14   Link #266
GuidoHunter_Toki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
Three rants.

About Mirai. It looks that some people here are playing the mecha pilot critique game with Mirai here. No matter what she does under normal or extraordinary circumstances, she's not nice enough, bold enough, wise enough, rational enough or whatever to find the approval of the audience who all must have been very remarkable people at the age of 13 by the standards they set.
Reminds me of the gripes people had about Shinji from Evangelion.

I found Mirai's angst to be annoying, yet fantastic. She's a young girl going through a rebellious period. Even though her Mom is fine(for the most part) she still has complaints about her not being perfect, and she has legitimate complaints against her dad. Basically they make her unsympathetic (by making her exactly what most were at that age) so that she has enormous room for growth in a disaster situation.
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Old 2009-07-18, 13:20   Link #267
Slice of Life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
For people complaining about the lack of looting I would like to point out that the Great Hanshin Earthquake (the most destructive earthquake in Japan in recent times) had no reported cases of looting.
Maybe I'm wearing rose-tinted glasses but I don't think there are many Tokyoites who still dream of owning a color TV or a washing machine. There is a certain level of wealth beyond which it's not your first impulse to steal the stuff you're lacking at the first opportunity. Yes there are also many homeless or practically homeless but what would you expect them to steal? They don't sell apartments from supermarket shelves.

I'd be dying to see scenes of otaku gangs carrying away whole containers of K-ON character song CDs in the ruins of Akihabara though.
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Old 2009-07-18, 14:16   Link #268
Craymel
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Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
Maybe I'm wearing rose-tinted glasses but I don't think there are many Tokyoites who still dream of owning a color TV or a washing machine. There is a certain level of wealth beyond which it's not your first impulse to steal the stuff you're lacking at the first opportunity. Yes there are also many homeless or practically homeless but what would you expect them to steal? They don't sell apartments from supermarket shelves.

I'd be dying to see scenes of otaku gangs carrying away whole containers of K-ON character song CDs in the ruins of Akihabara though.
Omg I can't stop laughing now
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Old 2009-07-18, 15:22   Link #269
drobertbaker
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There is a disclaimer on the front of every episode:
In the event of a real earthquake, things may turn out differently.

You can't say you weren't warned.
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Old 2009-07-18, 15:39   Link #270
golthin
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just by the ending it seems that Mari and Mirai can't find the respective families (or maybe they died in the earthquake) and become a family. I looking forward to all their adventures.
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Old 2009-07-18, 16:38   Link #271
Claies
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I feel like Mirai's daily misfortune is a bit overblown. Sure, she pushes people away, but any two of the little things she had to put up with over the episode are probably enough to make a bad day.

I'm going to have to give this two more episodes. The realism is supposedly in the aftermath, which we saw for all of twenty seconds so far.

Hopefully no Grave of the Fireflies level of sadness. I have yet to see that depressing film, but I'm not sure if they can handle that correctly in a show like this.
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Old 2009-07-18, 16:58   Link #272
BBOvenGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
For people complaining about the lack of looting I would like to point out that the Great Hanshin Earthquake (the most destructive earthquake in Japan in recent times) had no reported cases of looting.
The only instance I can think of where there was a near-immediate outbreak of looting was the New York City blackout in the 1970s. In that situation, the city hadn't been hit by any kind of natural disaster. The power just went out, and people could assume it would come back on relatively soon.

In a natural disaster, I would expect there to be some time period where people were in shock and were making sure they were going to be okay. The looting would come later. Why bother stealing a TV if your home's going to fall down by the time you get back? I think that even when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, a couple of days elapsed before looting really became a problem.
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Old 2009-07-18, 17:17   Link #273
orion
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At least you would have thought that some people would have taken some food or bottled water out of the gift shops there.

I can understand Mari waiting to get home. Technically, it's dangerous to travel now. If the daughter is injured and not found, she's not going to be alive by tomorrow anyways. (Not that Mari was thinking this but still...)

I can also understand eating the cake. It's the only food source and it would prob spoil by tomorrow anyways.
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Old 2009-07-18, 19:49   Link #274
kyouray
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Episode 2 : credible episode which doesn't fall in a cliché like hollywood disaster movies. I like it.
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Old 2009-07-18, 20:01   Link #275
Sackett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
Maybe I'm wearing rose-tinted glasses but I don't think there are many Tokyoites who still dream of owning a color TV or a washing machine. There is a certain level of wealth beyond which it's not your first impulse to steal the stuff you're lacking at the first opportunity. Yes there are also many homeless or practically homeless but what would you expect them to steal? They don't sell apartments from supermarket shelves.

I'd be dying to see scenes of otaku gangs carrying away whole containers of K-ON character song CDs in the ruins of Akihabara though.
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Omg I can't stop laughing now


Me neither... that mental image just cracks me up.
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Old 2009-07-19, 00:23   Link #276
fish eric
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Wow, this 2 episodes have been really good. I love the way they have built up Mirai's character. She is extremely flawed. You get to hear the reasoning inside her head why she acts the way she does and she is nothing but a brat. But she is a 13 year old girl from a dysfunctional family. I have met a 13 year old girl from a broken family that was on the run and addicted to meth so she is really not all the bad off comparatively.

The whole point of her being so flawed is that she will need to overcome her weaknesses.


Im pretty surprised at how much bashing this show is getting. The way people complain you would think they are all little Mirais
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Old 2009-07-19, 00:24   Link #277
Jski
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I just finished # 2 and it looks like it should be a good human story! But after a few story days i would images the human starting to turn a bit on each other. I must say that the pic in the begging remind me a lot of fallout 3 seen and it makes me wander what is in humans that kind of make them enjoy such seen that is things broken not ppl being harmed?
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Old 2009-07-19, 00:38   Link #278
Theowne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jski View Post
But after a few story days i would images the human starting to turn a bit on each other.
It didn't happen after the Kobe earthquake. Looting and social disorder after disasters might be more prevalent in America...maybe because wealth inequality and such. There were news articles about electronics shops with broken windows in Kobe but all the electronics sat there on the front shelves, no one to steal them. You could probably think of many reasons, perhaps stemming from the conformist/shame culture and of course a relatively low amount of inequality/poverty. Then again, it was also well reported that the floods in Mumbai, India before Hurricane Katrina also had a comparative lack of social disorder, as well, and Mumbai certainly has its share of poverty as well so....perhaps it is more of a cultural thing after all.
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Last edited by Theowne; 2009-07-19 at 00:49.
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Old 2009-07-19, 00:51   Link #279
Jski
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Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
It didn't happen after the Kobe earthquake. Looting and social disorder after disasters might be more prevalent in America with greater inequality, or perhaps other reasons. There were news articles about electronics shops with broken windows in Kobe but all the electronics sat there on the front shelves, no one to steal them. You could probably think of many reasons, perhaps stemming from the conformist/shame culture and of course a relatively low amount of inequality/poverty. Then again, it was also well reported that the floods in Mumbai, India also had a comparative lack of social disorder, as well, and Mumbai certainly has its share of poverty as well so....perhaps it is more of a cultural thing after all.
Lol that not what i am talking about at all i mean if this place is going to be locked off and supply such as food, clean water, and shelter things that humans must have start to become less and less people will start to how to put it become more aggressive. Human are still human regress where they live once they are in a suasion where live is endanger they will act in such a way to keep them self or others alive.

The major factor to how soon people are going to react to these stress is simply a madder to how use they are to living in such condition. Going from a "first world" to a "3ed world" (this is not the right word to use here but its the best i can think of atm) condition is a major shock. You do not know how great it is to have clean water on demand with nearly no lime is until you lose it hehe.

It does not look like it may get that bad but to get a full round story i think they are going to have to have some suasion where this comes up but this does not mean every one going to go crazy odd are a person will start acting like this and one of the 2 kids the sis or brother will talk them down.

Well this is how i see it and i can be very wrong i am not an expeared on human psychology i just know human act in ways to keep them self alive or others alive. As for the story line i think ppl are over thinking it (me too but i over think every thing!) and should be watch from epsote to epsote.
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Old 2009-07-19, 00:57   Link #280
Theowne
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Sorry if I misinterpreted your post, my reply was clearly a bit influenced by the discussions about looting taking place a few posts ago. Of course, the sort of thing you're talking about ends up being a major element in most disaster films and I'd expect some element of disorder in this series as well to really elicit an emotional response. But it would be quite realistic even without a lot of social disorder/looting/etc.

You know I'm kind of interested in the possibility that instead of being an all-out lives-ruined parents-dead kind of tragedy, the series might instead deal with the horrible but not insurmountably tragic effect that an earthquake has on a fragile middle-class family as they rebuild their lives. Maybe it's just me liking the first episode a bit too much ^_^;

I still don't know if it's right to say that humans regress to "myself over everyone else" in all situations. Maybe in the most drastic of situations, but based on what we've seen so far...... While there is clearly damage it doesn't seem like the city has been reduced completely to third world rubble. I mean if after the Kobe earthquake or the Mumbai floods people there are still able to mantain some altruism and social cohesion, I don't know if the disaster here is vastly greater than those....

Of course, this all assumes that the scope of the quake isn't drastically greater than anything we've seen...
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Last edited by Theowne; 2009-07-19 at 01:29.
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