AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-07-19, 18:47   Link #421
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferthepoet View Post
Just finished reading Umineko episode 2 as well as episode 2 tea party and ???

and I have the following observations:

1. Have anyone else noticed that in the tips Kumazawa is not described as furniture created by Kinzo as Shannon, Kanon and Genji are...... I think there might be some significance to this

2. I really hope that the explanation is not allucinations.... that would suck, I think the magic scenes are just Beato showing Batler how she would have done it with magic, much like she did in the tea party of epi one

3. Beatrice said Battler was incompetent in red which leads me believe that Kyrie. who seems to be a superior detective than Battler, surviving the first twilight is essential for defeating Beatrice, I think Bernkastel would eventually cause this to happen in order to make the game more even.

4. Can anyone explain if the portrait of Jessica-Beatrice, the beatrice with school girl jacket that looks similar to Jessica clothes is real.. Iīm really confused about this 2 portraits.

5. Am I the only one who finds some religious subtext to Umineko

6. Am I the only one bothered that Battler does not even once think about Ange during Episode 1 and 2...... any normal person would have been thinking aobut how difficult it would be to tell her her parents are dead or at least how his life is screwed becuase he would have now to be parent to her.....
1) I didn't notice but I guess there's some sense in it. Kumasawa never referred at herself as furniture. Shannon and Kanon are fukuin servants, and in that respect they were brought up by Kinzo himself. There must be probably a code of conduct and rules (to the limit of brainwashing) that make them think they are furniture, and that must have been done in accordance to Kinzo's orders. Genji's past is unlcear, but it appears he served Kinzo since a long time, unlike Kumasawa whose family is in niijima.

2) We don't have a clue, but most people believe that the in the end Battler was able to see magic only because he was drunk.

3) Who knows... anyway being incompetent is not a permanent status. Battler was certainly incompetent when Beatrice said that, but he can improve.

4) Again there's no fact here, but most people believe the portrait doesn't "really" changes.

5) I think there's only the usual thing you see in many anime, just a few references here and there.

6) Not only him. Pretty much everyone acts as if Ange doesn't exist. There are only two mentions of her from the people who go to Rokkenjima. One is from Eva on the airport scene, the other one is from Kyrie and Rosa while they drink tea in the afternoon of October4.
There are some odd quotes that are pretty disturbing imho. In one of them Jessica says that "the cousins are finally all gathered together", and in another one everyone agrees that this is the most funny family meeting in six years because Battler is there. I.E. Battler -> Ange.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline  
Old 2009-07-19, 18:50   Link #422
Kitsu
The unlucky one
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
Who cares about Ange anyway~ she is such a sidecharacter xD
__________________
Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara
Kitsu is offline  
Old 2009-07-19, 19:17   Link #423
Saerianne
*cackle*
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
Who cares about Ange anyway~ she is such a sidecharacter xD
-cries-

But yes, everyone not mentioning Ange is a bit of a worry. D:
Saerianne is offline  
Old 2009-07-19, 20:45   Link #424
ferthepoet
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
I wonder if Rudolf got Kyrie pregnant while still married to battler mom...
ferthepoet is offline  
Old 2009-07-19, 21:08   Link #425
rogerpepitone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Send a message via Yahoo to rogerpepitone
I was just looking over the end, and when Rosa & Maria are fleeing the goats, it's not raining. Does that suggest anything?
rogerpepitone is offline  
Old 2009-07-20, 12:39   Link #426
ferthepoet
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Am I the only one thinking Batler is indeed incompetent I mean if the condition to win is to disprove the witch, the first move he should have done is demand for Beatrice to define Witch... That would have been given more room to move..... then he should have start throwing all kind of theories equally as outlandish as a Witch but which the Witch canīt disprove and as outlandish as they are are fundamentally human and do not involve magic (Robots, the Yaimanu (he read Higurashi), government conspiracy, mad scientist, human mutant with power to walk through walls ) then the witch would probably crash them all with red text but may make some mistakes which could help Battler, he should also not have given up using the 18 as possible culprits as long as he can prove some of the 18 could have done it without having to point at an specific one it should be enough for him to trouble Beatrice without really sacrificing anyone.......
ferthepoet is offline  
Old 2009-07-20, 12:48   Link #427
momobunny
◔ ◡ ◔
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ImaginaryLand
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferthepoet View Post
Am I the only one thinking Batler is indeed incompetent I mean if the condition to win is to disprove the witch, the first move he should have done is demand for Beatrice to define Witch... That would have been given more room to move..... then he should have start throwing all kind of theories equally as outlandish as a Witch but which the Witch canīt disprove and as outlandish as they are are fundamentally human and do not involve magic (Robots, the Yaimanu (he read Higurashi), government conspiracy, mad scientist, human mutant with power to walk through walls ) then the witch would probably crash them all with red text but may make some mistakes which could help Battler, he should also not have given up using the 18 as possible culprits as long as he can prove some of the 18 could have done it without having to point at an specific one it should be enough for him to trouble Beatrice without really sacrificing anyone.......
Well Beatrice did state in read that he's incompetent. ^^;
__________________

momobunny is offline  
Old 2009-07-20, 13:07   Link #428
Auria
...
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Catbox
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
I was just looking over the end, and when Rosa & Maria are fleeing the goats, it's not raining. Does that suggest anything?
Dunno, but when I read that scene I always thought that the golden butterflies everywhere could be fire, so I wouldn't want rain to kill the fire (this argumentation is physically wrong.)
Auria is offline  
Old 2009-07-21, 07:57   Link #429
patnam
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Kinzo's end so much exciting... getting eaten by the demons and the goats...!!!
yet he's still so happy to see Beato again, and he eager to go to the golden village...LOL.
patnam is offline  
Old 2009-07-21, 09:18   Link #430
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
I was just looking over the end, and when Rosa & Maria are fleeing the goats, it's not raining. Does that suggest anything?
Well it was the end of October 5. the typhoon is supposed to end on the morning of October 6, so it's not that strange.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline  
Old 2009-07-23, 12:21   Link #431
Teapot
Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: The peoples' car
Age: 19
Send a message via MSN to Teapot
Did you guys find it odd that Genji threw a knife at one of the butterflies?

He seems like the one who would accept fate, after all he did stay alone in the kitchen.

Last edited by Teapot; 2009-07-23 at 12:35.
Teapot is offline  
Old 2009-07-23, 12:28   Link #432
Nih
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 29
I always thought of it simply as him trying to protect the ones who left from harm.
Nih is offline  
Old 2009-07-23, 14:24   Link #433
Teapot
Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: The peoples' car
Age: 19
Send a message via MSN to Teapot
I just find it quite contradictory to what he said to George just a moment ago.

"What happens to a senile old man like myself will be decided by the roulette. I want to sit here and see the what the result will be with my own eyes."

He seems to have given up. He probably thought the resistance with the mirror was useless.

I think that scene might be a big hint.
Teapot is offline  
Old 2009-07-23, 15:58   Link #434
Nih
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 29
Hmm... Perhaps he did give up on himself, but then that could mean several things anyway: he either didn't care and killed the butterfly to make a statement to Beatrice or he still wanted to give the others a chance. Personally, I think he knows a lot more than we think so far, after all he is one of the underdevelopped characters. Hopefully we get more backstory on his relationship with Kinzo.

Speaking of which, wasn't Kinzo involved with the military? Genji's way with the knife and quick reflexes make me think he was trained as a soldier or a bodyguard.
Nih is offline  
Old 2009-07-24, 19:34   Link #435
rogerpepitone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Send a message via Yahoo to rogerpepitone
Kinzo was involved with the military; he made money supplying US troops during the Korean War; he was able to buy Rokkenjima because of them.

Spoiler for Genji kills butterfly:
rogerpepitone is offline  
Old 2009-07-26, 07:31   Link #436
Mint Kashiro
Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
I just finished Turn of the Golden Witch. I must say, I am really in love with Beatrice's character. She seems to be be almost hurt... and then turns around and really makes you believe that she is the cruelest of the witches.

I scared my boyfriend badly by laughing at the first twilight. Not because I found the deaths funny, but because I simply can't wait to see how it's handled in the anime, and how the non-VN readers react (But he understood in the end, when I explained why I was laughing like a maniac).

Very enthralling! I'm really looking forward to part three, which I'll start on the beginning of this long car trip. I really haven't been spending much time trying to solve the puzzls of the locked rooms, I feel I'm still missing too much information to get much of a good explanation.

Also, Battler's comeback was pretty sweet.

Still, I'm not sure quite what to believe. I want to believe in the magical explanations, but at the same time common sense says 'is that really true?'. Bah, brain, can't we agree on one thing?

Last edited by Mint Kashiro; 2009-07-26 at 07:41.
Mint Kashiro is offline  
Old 2009-07-28, 11:39   Link #437
Alair
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Finished the second chapter and though I keep trying to think of rational explanations it does seem like we've tipped pretty fully onto the fantasy side of things with this one - to the point that trying to deny them honestly just feels like doing so purely for the sake of obstinacy.

Beatrice pretty much the stole the show the entire episode with mostly just Rosa getting in a few remaining shots (Including the quite awesome "touch my daughter and I'll show you just how lukewarm the hell you crawled out of really was"). Still, how can that compare with Beatrice's explanation of her favor to Battler in how she arranged the First Twilight?

The tea party was full of wonderful.
Alair is offline  
Old 2009-07-28, 12:24   Link #438
maximilianjenus
[E]
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Keep on reading, Episode 3 will be a mindfuck even if it explains somethings.
maximilianjenus is offline  
Old 2009-08-01, 14:14   Link #439
TheShinySword
Master of the Shiny Crack
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a cave
Send a message via AIM to TheShinySword Send a message via MSN to TheShinySword
Okay, so I just finished Episode 2 and it was in fact pretty darn amazing.

I really only have one thing to put out there and it may or may not be significant (or even correct) but it's leading me down the path of believing whether or not there is magic Beatrice isn't the killer.

In both episodes one and two it's said that the way Beatrice gets into locked rooms is she turns into butterflies and slips through the cracks (In other words magic). But in episode 2 she states in red that there are no cracks in the doors when she's laying down the closed room rules for Battler. If there are no cracks then there's no way she could slip through them even with magic.

Last edited by TheShinySword; 2009-08-01 at 14:41.
TheShinySword is offline  
Old 2009-08-01, 15:54   Link #440
Rasuberi
Give me things to draw!!!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Florida
Age: 25
Send a message via AIM to Rasuberi
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShinySword View Post
Okay, so I just finished Episode 2 and it was in fact pretty darn amazing.

I really only have one thing to put out there and it may or may not be significant (or even correct) but it's leading me down the path of believing whether or not there is magic Beatrice isn't the killer.

In both episodes one and two it's said that the way Beatrice gets into locked rooms is she turns into butterflies and slips through the cracks (In other words magic). But in episode 2 she states in red that there are no cracks in the doors when she's laying down the closed room rules for Battler. If there are no cracks then there's no way she could slip through them even with magic.
I also just finished Episode 2 today! Oh gosh, was it spectacular...

That was a point that I had forgotten about. If there aren't cracks, than it should disprove what she said in Episode 1. However, the stakes were able to get through the door by somewhat "phasing in". Of course this is only if we are to believe in everything that happened in that scene.
__________________
乃絵はのお嫁さんです。
  
Rasuberi is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.