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Old 2009-07-07, 09:22   Link #21
MeoTwister5
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I might as well add, for anyone trying to figure out the epitaph and whether it has any true connection to the island of Rokkenjima, here's as aerial shot of the island from the anime. Disregard the colored circles for the time being since I was the one who added them for discussion on another thread.

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Old 2009-07-07, 09:33   Link #22
maximilianjenus
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It could also not be english but italian.
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Old 2009-07-07, 12:03   Link #23
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One of the things that has been nagging at me is the way Beatrice is described in the epitaph. Something to be 'awakened' and then 'put back to sleep.'

It seems likely to me that the witch in the poem is not a witch in the traditional sense, but a place/process/thing/contact that enables the the finding/making of gold/money.

The following is my own speculation, strongly influenced by why someone in fiction usually hides such things in a poem/riddle in books/movies.

Spoiler for My dumb theory:


Spoiler for Weaknesses and my responses:
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Old 2009-07-07, 12:45   Link #24
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Just as a mild answer to yoru theory, it's stated since episode 1-1 that kinzo became the leader of the ushiromiya in the 1920s.
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Old 2009-07-07, 12:48   Link #25
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He's not completely wrong, he just mixed up two different events. Kinzo became the head after the kanto earthquake (1923), however he met the "witch" after the war (1945+). It isn't said how he managed to get the family on its feet in those 20 years, but obviously the gold came later. And Kinzo only became super rich after the Korean war in 1950. After that he was able to buy a whole island.
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Old 2009-07-11, 09:53   Link #26
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I'm only on chapter seven of the manga version of Episode 1, and with this damn dialup I can't watch the anime yet or download the patch.

This information may or may not be useless. It probably is, due to my lack of knowledge.

When the conversation of the cousins and Shannon was mentioned in this thread, I noticed Odawara. Originally I thought Odawara in Kanagawa prefecture, so I wikipediaed (?) it for more info.

Spoiler for Miscellaneous Wikipedia info:


And here is my own line-by-line analysis on the epitaph. >>"
I'm a pragmatist, so basically I just go with the literallity (is that a word? o.o).

Spoiler for Line-by-line analysis, could have spoilers for Ryuukishi07's other series, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, and this series, obviously:


A couple random questions that have no bearing on anything, really:
-Wouldn't it be funny if one of the mods ended up being someone from 07th Expansion and they were just hiding it from everyone? Just saying. I know that there's a 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999998% probability that's not true.
-The full title for the answer arc section of the games, is it Umineko no Naku Koro ni San or Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru? I've heard both.



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Last edited by Klashikari; 2009-07-12 at 10:26. Reason: scan is ahead of the current anime progression
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Old 2009-07-12, 10:19   Link #27
Christen
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Just a clarification, are we allowed to put hints related to the epitaph that was revealed in Episodes ahead of the anime? I'm just wondering because I believe the epitaph thread is for the anime watchers.
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Old 2009-07-12, 10:25   Link #28
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No. This thread serve for anime watchers mainly (especially due the lack of written material and the fact the whole epitaph was barely mentioned). This is why the epitaph has its own thread because it is highly possible that details will be omitted in the anime series, so a thread dedicated to the epitaph isn't a luxury.

Any hints from the games should NOT be hinted unless their proper timing have been reached by the anime plot progression.
This is considered as a "anime thread", hence the spoiler policies do apply for this thread as well.
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Old 2009-07-12, 20:33   Link #29
fish eric
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Since the anime just had the first twilight does that mean someone has already found the key?
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Old 2009-07-12, 23:41   Link #30
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish eric View Post
Since the anime just had the first twilight does that mean someone has already found the key?
Not necessarily. It might be more correct to say that no one, not even the VN players, know if this key was found by then, so there is no definitive answer.
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Old 2009-07-13, 12:04   Link #31
maximilianjenus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish eric View Post
Since the anime just had the first twilight does that mean someone has already found the key?
Nobody knows.
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Old 2009-07-16, 05:20   Link #32
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I don't know if this helps (Probably not) But I'm going to post it here anyways since it is mostly related to the epitaph

Spoiler for Ep 1, Six chosen by the key:
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Old 2009-07-16, 09:14   Link #33
fish eric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Witch Drugs View Post
I don't know if this helps (Probably not) But I'm going to post it here anyways since it is mostly related to the epitaph

Spoiler for Ep 1, Six chosen by the key:
Honestly at this point in the series I think its futile to try and solve the epitath. From what I read in the episode forums there is just not enough details at this point to even come close.

Try using your mental strength towards something more productive like umm... complaining about Haruhi?
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Old 2009-07-16, 11:37   Link #34
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There are two ways to approach the above:
Spoiler for Spoilers up to episode 3 of the anime:
The fun part is, the murders would follow the epitaph regardless of which of the above were true. So it's a preview for us right now. I don't think it'll be possible to solve the message behind the epitaph for us anime viewers for quite some time to come, though.
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Old 2009-07-16, 22:48   Link #35
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I still don't think the epitaph itself means human sacrifice.... (as I stated in that [Anime] Umineko - Speculation & Theories for first time viewers)

By ep 1-3....
Spoiler for Anime, ep 1-3:


Therefore the epitaph likely means something else.....
What is it ? Trees? No. River. not possible. Statue? Maybe. Could even be Beatrice portray

How about a Japanese character? A character can indicate certain place/ coordinates to where the gold is.
I have 0 knowledge in Japanese Kanji so can't attempt anything. "Kill" and "gouge" and "those who are close" make sense if it means stroke of certain characters. "Key" could means a certain "keyword". But then the "twilight" and "the witch shall be revived and none shall be left alive" makes little sense.....
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Old 2009-07-23, 00:34   Link #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinndou View Post
"The two" doesn't necessarily refer to "people" though. It's a riddle, so let's not forget that there's metaphors in it, including that sentence.

I'll post a theory/interpretation that a friend of mine and me came up with. It shouldn't be spoilerish since it doesn't really contain infos on the game's plot:

Supposing that the sentence "follow the river downstream" is actually referring to the Ushiromiya's descendence, in the bit of the riddle where it talks about finding the village (里) it's basically saying that we need to focus our attention on Maria's name (真里亞). So, keeping that in mind and going on with the following lines, we combine the kanjis 二 and 口 from the sentence "二人が口にし" (the two will tell you) and we obtain the kanji 目.
Now, following the riddle, a shore is a portion that's between land and sea. It's telling us to look for it ("岸を探せ"). Keeping in mind Maria's name as well, the kanji 目is contained in 真. So this is the "shore". In this shore (meaning in this kanji), we have to look for the "Key".

Here's the creepy curiosity about the last bit: the origin of the kanji 真. It was originally meant to indicate a corpse that lays upside down, the lower part of the kanji should depict the hair sticking out from the beheaded corpse. The story behind it says that the man who died this way became a ghost and possessed a strong spiritual force. Then the spirit of this deceased man was caged inside a sanctuary, in order to calm him and purify him.

Among the most popular meaning/uses for the kanji 真 there's "reality", "truth", "genuine", "pure" and all things related to this. Could this be a way to say "please find the truth?"
Intresting haveing no kanji knowlage are there any vaild resualting kanji if you follow the directions?
At the first twilight, you shall lift up as sacrifice the six chosen by the key. (remove 目 from 真?)
At the second twilight, those who remain shall tear apart the two who are close. (move some of the stroke apart? Break down the Kanji?)
At the third twilight, those who remain shall praise my honorable name on high.
At the fourth twilight, gouge the head and kill. (add or remove strokes?)
At the fifth twilight, gouge the chest and kill. (add or remove strokes)
At the sixth twilight, gouge the stomach and kill. (add or remove strokes)
At the seventh twilight, gouge the knee and kill. (add or remove strokes)
At the eighth twilight, gouge the leg and kill. (add or remove strokes)
At the ninth twilight, the witch shall be revived and none shall be left alive.
At the tenth twilight, the journey shall end and you should reach the village of gold.
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Old 2009-07-23, 03:39   Link #37
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Mmkay this has really been bothering me and I feel stupid for asking this.

When the epitaph says at the first twilight, second twilight, etc, when IS a twilight? I thought it was midnight but that's not the case since a buttload of people have died in one episode... and since this is all happening in a span of 2 days (right?) then that kills my thought.
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Old 2009-07-23, 03:49   Link #38
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Either it means what it says it means, or someone is doing it wrong.

It suggests ten days (well, nights), but evidence points to this being incorrect, either in subtile translation, or more likely or those acting upon it.

Spoiler for But what does it mean? (theory):


The problem of course is that is not what is happening.
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2009-07-23 at 04:15.
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Old 2009-07-23, 07:29   Link #39
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by Demoned Away View Post
Mmkay this has really been bothering me and I feel stupid for asking this.

When the epitaph says at the first twilight, second twilight, etc, when IS a twilight? I thought it was midnight but that's not the case since a buttload of people have died in one episode... and since this is all happening in a span of 2 days (right?) then that kills my thought.
I couldn't say it until now, but with Ep4 released I can finally state it (mind this is not a fact but a personal opinion):

"the killer who's trying to recreate the epitaph literally is doing it wrong".

First the epitaph says "the remaining shall", but that's not what happened. Second the third twilight is completely messed up. Not only it appears after the fourth and fifth twilight, but it isn't even done correctly. They only read that letter, but no name was praised.

There is also the fact that he is completely overlooking the "twilight" part, he just kills people at random intervals.


Anyway to answer demoned away: that "twilight" is read as "ban", the same reading as the kanji "番" whom is frequently used for numeral orders. If you read it that way and remove the "の" you get: "first time" "second time" "third time" and so on.
So my idea is that that "ban" has no other purpose but to make more creepy and suggestive what is nothing else but a list of things that must be done in succession.
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Old 2009-07-23, 08:38   Link #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Either it means what it says it means, or someone is doing it wrong.

It suggests ten days (well, nights), but evidence points to this being incorrect, either in subtile translation, or more likely or those acting upon it.

Spoiler for But what does it mean? (theory):


The problem of course is that is not what is happening.
I often heard the idea, that the sacrifice must not necessarily mean a blood-sacrifice, yet the only meaning to 生贄 is exactly that, an animal or human is sacrificed for a 'higher gain'.
The only thing that is not clearly described in this paragraph is the key (鍵) and what those six are.

Of course it can be meant literal, but until now there is no direct evidence that it isn't meant that way.
BUT what is indeed interesting is the fact, that the key itself does only the first choice, yet the rest is up to those who remain (残されし者).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I couldn't say it until now, but with Ep4 released I can finally state it (mind this is not a fact but a personal opinion):

"the killer who's trying to recreate the epitaph literally is doing it wrong".

First the epitaph says "the remaining shall", but that's not what happened. Second the third twilight is completely messed up. Not only it appears after the fourth and fifth twilight, but it isn't even done correctly. They only read that letter, but no name was praised.

There is also the fact that he is completely overlooking the "twilight" part, he just kills people at random intervals.


Anyway to answer demoned away: that "twilight" is read as "ban", the same reading as the kanji "番" whom is frequently used for numeral orders. If you read it that way and remove the "の" you get: "first time" "second time" "third time" and so on.
So my idea is that that "ban" has no other purpose but to make more creepy and suggestive what is nothing else but a list of things that must be done in succession.
The idea with 番 is interesting and it could be that the 晩 used in the written epitaph is there to confuse us. Or maybe the text was dictated by someone and interpreted in a way that it shouldn't have been, yet for that to be relevant we would have to find more instances of ambiguous writing.

Concerning the 残されし者 I have one other thing to offer:
It is never explicitly explained from WHAT this person or people has/have to remain. Of course we interpret it as the people who have remained from the sacrificed, yet it can also be read as 'She/He who remained (from a previous incident that happened concerning the house of Ushiromiya) shall....'.
Maybe we really are searching in the whole wrong corners for shards of truth's that aren't there.
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