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View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi (2009) - Episode 07 Rating
Perfect 10 26 9.25%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 9 3.20%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 3.91%
7 out of 10 : Good 16 5.69%
6 out of 10 : Average 11 3.91%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 14 4.98%
4 out of 10 : Poor 9 3.20%
3 out of 10 : Bad 8 2.85%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 11 3.91%
1 out of 10 : Painful 166 59.07%
Voters: 281. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-07-23, 15:14   Link #201
Midonin
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I wonder if there's a tally on how many metaphors and similes people have likened this to over the past few months.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:16   Link #202
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Why do DVD sales of Endless Eight matter to you? They only matter if Kadokawa thought they were going to use those sales as a barometer of whether it's worth continuing on with the project.
I'm sure that this is exactly what they are doing.

So no, I don't think we'll be seeing a real S2 or that tenth novel, ever.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:16   Link #203
chikorita157
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This episode gets a 2/10, since the animation is great and all, but the content have been copied so many times that it just become a big pile of fail...

Do better next time Kadokawa and stop photocopying the same content from the last 5 episodes.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:17   Link #204
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I've updated the chart to make it more understandable.



It compares the poll results of Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody and the 5 Endless Eight episodes.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:20   Link #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
It doesn't have to make sense to us, though. If they want to burn money on something many around here feel is a waste of time, why not?
Well most businesses don't operate under the principle of wasting money intentionally. Not ones that last very long at least.

Burning money for a gag during an economic downturn isn't a very smart thing for an entertainment company to do. They can never know when they could have genuinely needed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenni View Post
What's with all these Mote In God's Eye references?
The Moties of trapped in an endless recursion of their cycle of overpopulation, total war and societal collapse much like we are stuck with endlessly repeating cycles of Endless 8. I thought it was somewhat similar.

Also, you win one free internet for catching the reference.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:21   Link #206
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I'm sure that this is exactly what they are doing.

So no, I don't think we'll be seeing a real S2 or that tenth novel, ever.
I see that your faith in the decision-making of large multi-million-dollar corporations is... well, what it is... Seriously, though, a move like this can only happen when all of the companies involved are very comfortable in the stability of the franchise. And in fact, it's been said that something like this could only be done because it's Haruhi. I'm not worried at all about the impact of sales on future seasons. And despite rumours to the contrary, we still haven't had any official news on how these episodes are going to be sold anyway.

People worry so much about things they can't change...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Burning money for a gag during an economic downturn isn't a very smart thing for an entertainment company to do. They can never know when they could have genuinely needed it.
At that time, they can just start animating the novels the way everyone keeps wanting them to, and then...
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:24   Link #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan-san View Post
Disapear,
This arc is an eyesore;
This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc.
This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc.
This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc. This arc.
THIS ARC!


So what you're saying is This is the Countdown of japanese animation? I can buy that.
Yes... to be even more specific KyoAni is Superboy Prime throwing retcon punch after retcon punch to create endless iterations of Endless Eight...
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:26   Link #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
a lot of your novel readers who want Disappearance
Why would anyone want Disappearance haphazardly tacked onto the end of the '06 season instead of getting a main story treatment? That would be an even greater disservice to it than the delay.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:26   Link #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post

It doesn't have to make sense to us, though. If they want to burn money on something many around here feel is a waste of time, why not?
Let me put it this way: for starting this re-airing or second season or whatever you want to call it, only for it to be at least half a hoax, they are assholes. If the president of Kyoani or Kadokawa invited me to his birthday party, I would not go, not even for free cake and ice cream.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:29   Link #210
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I'm not worried at all about the impact of sales on future seasons.
Neither am I. I'm just interested on a purely intellectual basis. They're obviously not doing this because they like making the fans happy and they're not doing because it makes them money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
And despite rumours to the contrary, we still haven't had any official news on how these episodes are going to be sold anyway.
Two options.

Have the E8 episodes on their own DVD's.
Divide the E8 episodes amongst the DVD's

With the first one the malcontents will skip on the episodes filled with E8 and only buy the non E8 DVD's

The second one will likely have more of the malcontents cave in and buy the entire season for the part that's not E8, but that will be canceled out by the Malcontents who won't buy any of the DVD's because of E8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mokuseimaru View Post
If the president of Kyoani or Kadokawa invited me to his birthday party, I would not go, not even for free cake and ice cream.
Indeed. The cake is a lie.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:29   Link #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Why would anyone want Disappearance haphazardly tacked onto the end of the '06 season instead of getting a main story treatment? That would be an even greater disservice to it than the delay.
At this juncture, yes, but if they had only done 3 or fewer EE episodes, they would have had enough episodes to do some justice with Disappearance this summer.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:31   Link #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mokuseimaru View Post
Let me put it this way: for starting this re-airing or second season or whatever you want to call it, only for it to be at least half a hoax, they are certainly assholes. If they president of Kyoani or Kadokawa invited me to his birthday party, I would not go, not even for free cake and ice cream.
LOL. That analogy wins on many levels, and really does explain the reaction. People got their feelings hurt when their expectations were trampled by the game they're being "subjected to". The producers didn't play by the rules, and they violated the "trust" of the viewers, who now feel betrayed.

I'd go for the cake and ice cream. I'm genuinely interested in knowing how they came up with this idea in the first place. I'd love to hear the whole story at some point, not that I think it'll ever be exposed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Neither am I. I'm just interested on a purely intellectual basis. They're obviously not doing this because they like making the fans happy and they're not doing because it makes them money.
Agreed. That's what makes this so fascinating; it defies most of what we think of as logical explanations. The only options are that there's a logic we don't see, or that it's just pure random chaos. Either way, it's interesting because it doesn't happen very often.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:34   Link #213
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Quote:
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At this juncture, yes, but if they had only done 3 or fewer EE episodes, they would have had enough episodes to do some justice with Disappearance this summer.
You missed my point. If Disappearance truly is held in as high regard as it seems to be, I don't see why anyone would want it treated the exact same way as Sigh or the various short stories that make up the bulk of 06 Haruhi.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:41   Link #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
As opposed to a three-year gap and a re-airing with no new episodes? It's not exactly either better or worse from that perspective.

Oh, please. They're pissed off now, sure. But what will happen when they do animate the part they're waiting for? Are you telling me that, given this show's otherwise long-standing tradition of being rather faithful to the novels,
They're not exactly being faithful now, are they?


Quote:
they're going to say "nope, not interested" even though they've been looking forward to it for so long?

I'm saying that this Endless Eight fiasco is probably hurting the Haruhi anime - possibly long term - amongst potential new fans. It would have been better if Season 2 had given the hardcore Haruhi fans more of what they wanted so that we'd have a positive buzz going which would help to bring in more potential new fans.

These new anime episodes could have brought in new fans - it's not happening. Not from what I've seen on a few different boards, anyway. Aside from being an utter joke on more generic anime boards and pop fiction boards, Haruhi Season 2 (or whatever you want to call this) isn't getting talked about at all on these boards. Even if this is all just for marketing purposes - even if it's just to set-up the true Season 2; it's wasteful marketing.

How many new fans do you honestly think Endless Eight is bringing in?

Compare that to the new fans that could have been brought in if you had the production values and animation quality of Endless Eight but with actual plot progression.

Even pure plot filler would likely be better than this (marketing wise), and attract more fans. Like another person said on this thread... I'll never complain about something like the Bounts arc in Bleach ever again because of this. I've read the destruction of Planet Namek compared favorably to this.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:43   Link #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Agreed. That's what makes this so fascinating; it defies most of what we think of as logical explanations. The only options are that there's a logic we don't see, or that it's just pure random chaos. Either way, it's interesting because it doesn't happen very often.
No, I just think they're insane at this point.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:47   Link #216
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No, I just think they're insane at this point.
Agreed. It's pure marketing stupidity.

This is why I have absolutely no faith in seeing anything Haruhi-related after this finishes airing, EVER. Why would they? It'd make sense.

They've only accomplished three things: a) proving that they're idiots, b) destroying KyoAni's reputation, and c) turning Haruhi into a fucking joke.

None of which will net them any money. They're more likely to lose it.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:50   Link #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.koljan View Post
I've updated the chart to make it more understandable.



It compares the poll results of Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody and the 5 Endless Eight episodes.
Nice chart. It's good to visualize these things.

And unfortunately judging by these results, it's probably more interesting than the actual episode.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:50   Link #218
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I'd go for the cake and ice cream. I'm genuinely interested in knowing how they came up with this idea in the first place. I'd love to hear the whole story at some point, not that I think it'll ever be exposed...

Agreed. That's what makes this so fascinating; it defies most of what we think of as logical explanations. The only options are that there's a logic we don't see, or that it's just pure random chaos. Either way, it's interesting because it doesn't happen very often.
Gotta agree on this. I'm very curious to learn about what happened in their mind about this whole story. It seems to defy all logic and common sense.

If it's publicity, it's very expensive and, though it DOES work in making people talk about the show, it's not in very flattering tones. And as someone said, it's not because people are interested in watching a train wreck, they'll want to PAY to watch it.

If it's artistic license, it seems hard to not see it's been pushed too far by a LONG way.

If it's internal drama between Kadokawa and KyoAni... well, people like to know about drama

Anyway, knowing at least the reasons about all this, is sure to be entertaining - sadly, it's sure to be much more entertaining than the EE itself, which is shamefully twisted for an entertainement show.

But I doubt we'll ever have the real reason behind all this - I'm afraid that companies in general aren't too prone to speak about their secrets, and asian ones have the reputation to be even more secretive.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:57   Link #219
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A play on a line from a song comes to mind...

If you're wondering why they troll and tease and other business facts...just repeat to yourself, "It's just a show, I should really just relax."

8/10 episode, if only because of the continued "outrage" of the fan base.
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Old 2009-07-23, 16:03   Link #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
They're not exactly being faithful now, are they?
That's a dead-end, and you know it. They're in a timeloop, and have only made changes that would allow them to continue showing loops without novel readers knowing when it was going to end. It's pretty essential to the concept they're pulling off. It's faithful except to the extent that being faithful would preclude them from keeping the surprise factor that they clearly wanted, so I'm not sure how to measure that "fault".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
How many new fans do you honestly think Endless Eight is bringing in?

Compare that to the new fans that could have been brought in if you had the production values and animation quality of Endless Eight but with actual plot progression.

Even pure filler would likely be better than this (marketing wise), and attract more fans. I've read the destruction of Planet Namek compared favorably to this.
And so...?

I'm not trying to defend this as some sort of inspired move that's without parallel, or was the best of all the options they could have chosen. None of us know why they did this. I'm just saying that I have my doubts about the long-term consequences of this move. They obviously felt they wanted to re-air the show and add some new content. What they added was one new episode and this looping story arc, which had the effect of messing with the audience. Could they have sold more DVDs if they had just done what everyone wanted? I don't know... maybe? probably? possibly? Who knows... Will the show sell as well when they do eventually do what people want? Will there be a noted drop in DVD sales for the next season that's as a direct result of Endless Eight? Will said drop be significant enough to have any impact whatsoever on the future of this anime franchise? In all cases, we'll see. We're just playing armchair CEO here, and we don't have enough information or experience to make actual judgement calls. But if you think I'm trying to defend this whole thing as a "smart decision", I'm not. I'm just saying that I wonder whether it'll really end up being as stupid as people think.
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