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Old 2009-07-09, 19:20   Link #161
yezhanquan
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
To be honest, she didn't get raped because she needed to be comforted and ended up sleeping with Makoto's friend, I forget his name at the moment but she did have sex although it wasn't explicitly shown, I think we can all read between the lines.
It was Makoto's friend. Forgot the chap's name too.
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Old 2009-07-10, 11:15   Link #162
klowny
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
It was Makoto's friend. Forgot the chap's name too.
Isn't it Taisuke Sawanaga?
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Old 2009-07-16, 00:11   Link #163
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Yeap. That's the chap.
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Old 2009-07-17, 07:46   Link #164
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
To be honest, she didn't get raped because she needed to be comforted and ended up sleeping with Makoto's friend, I forget his name at the moment but she did have sex although it wasn't explicitly shown, I think we can all read between the lines.
I think it's still considered rape. Apologising for my lack of understanding of the mind, but from a legal point of view. I'll tell you what I can, if I had to present my case in court.

Kotonoha was already pretty much deranged read "mentally unstable" by that point, so whatever Taisuke did to her, whether it was groping (now, who are we kidding!?) or s3x (much more likely, given these three screencaps below, with credit to Random Curiosity)





It would be classified as taking advantage of a mentally unstable individual, and would carry a penalty multiplier over whatever he did already. And, as a viewer, the second s-cap does mean sex (entry, if you want specifics), so yeah. I say. Poor Kotonoha.

In fact, I'm looking forward to a GOOD END with Yuuki and Kotonoha in the upcoming (and 3 times delayed) Cross Days.

Yuuki, PLEASE remember THIS LINE!

Quote:
Their fates can be changed by his effort. Though we cannot expect whether the result is happy...
Change we can FINALLY believe in! (Now nosey sis and her girl, please BACK OFF)
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Old 2009-07-18, 00:46   Link #165
Karlson
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I guess it comes down to whether you think Kotonoha was severly mentally unstable at that part or not but I thought it was fairly well implied that Taisuke took advantage of the situation with a Kotonoha that was quite mentally broken there, and in my eyes that's rape.

Whether he meant to do it on purpose or not I think is a better question, but either way he was quite a scumbag to do that.
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Old 2009-07-18, 00:55   Link #166
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You're right. It's similar like if he did with a drugged or drunk girl.
Question: Who thinks it was a shock for Kotonoha?(Taisuike's rape or rape-like deed)
I think she hardly cared about it(it wasn't as forcefull as in the VN...I guess)
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Old 2009-07-18, 04:17   Link #167
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I don't think she really felt much of anything or cared about it but that's only because her mind was somewhere else (as in focused on other things particularly with Makato), blocking out the reality of what was happening right in front of her. It's just her mental instability kicking in.

Shouldn't be a surprise given the way she acts troughout this series clearly indicates she's mentally ill. I mean the creepy/crazy/lifeless side of her alone pretty much describe her as such
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Old 2009-07-18, 04:38   Link #168
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Yeah...somehow Kotonoha've always lived in her own dream world. It's the main cause of her naiveness. She isolates herself from almost everything and that's why she has no friends.Because she hardly feels a need for it. Makoto was her dreamed prince. Perhaps I exaggerate a bit, but only to show Kotonoha's view of world more clearly. That's why there's not a single ending where kotonoha kills Makoto. To her he's the prince of her dreams, and she can't believe he didn't loved her or he intentionally harmed her. even if he does something contradicting to this image he must be charmed by an Evil Witch(Sekai) and once the magic's defeated he'll turn back to the good caring prince she needs. At least that's how Kotonoha acts in the anime. In the VN the other characters' personalities changes too a bit when you play differently. For example:
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-07-19, 07:20   Link #169
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Ok, this IS going to be LONG.

You know how some of you say that Taisuke took advantage of the situation? While that's true, remember the fact that it was Makoto who created the mess in the first place. Maybe, Taisuke, as an observer, had already foresaw this, thus he had planned on this all along.

Just to bring you back to ep 9, where Taisuke was actually asking Kotonoha out for a date - and was flat out rejected. This probably was part of his plan after all. I mean, it's totally possible. And also, by that point, Kotonoha was not only enamored by Makoto (which shows, all the way to the end, and I'll get to that later.), and also, her mind was totally absorbed by thoughts of Makoto. Typical of someone in love. However, there's also something else that some may have failed to notice. She tends not to socialise, if my observations are correct. I think that's being hinted at in Cross Day's test version (and yes, you can go to 0verflow's site to download it, here.

Thus, you can tell that this is something wrong. Remember the family line/chart/spaghetti?



Chew on this. Makoto's dad is also Sekai's and Setsuna's grandfather.

Oh well, you don't see Kotonoha. And that's where my query lies. Does Kotonoha have a equally complicated family tree/chart/map? I don't know. But it could be possible, since the fact is that she seems to be she doesn't like to socialise, or even communicate. It seems likely that there's some family history behind it, since I can't find any other reason thus far. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Then there's Taisuke. That could have caused a relapse in a mental condition that was previously dormant. She was passive when Taisuke did what she did, and it must have only been later (maybe much later) before she relaised what had happened. I mean, she would probably have been tired, in a state comparable to that of being drugged or, just, too enamored with Makoto, that she thought that it was Makoto and not Taisuke. No one knows.

And there's more to it where it comes from. Could it be that, that's what causing the mental breakdown she has? You know, sometimes, a mental breakdown isn't immediately visible, it may likely take time to be seen. What it needs is a trigger to show it. Here, it was Sekai, after being told to go for an abortion, murdering Makoto. That set off Kotonoha in turn. So yeah, it could have been an underlying problem for some time. Though I have no idea whether it would be true, since there's no visual evidence in the series.

And finally, the Nice Boat. Hugging Makoto's head. I promised to tell you how Kotonoha was enamored with Makoto to the end. This shows it. Oh and yes.

I want a good end in Cross Days where Makoto dies by an act of God, and Sekai and Kotonoha are happy. Maybe, Kotonoha with Yuuki. Yeah. Change we can believe in.
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Old 2009-07-19, 08:54   Link #170
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Act of God? Makoto was such a bastard that even God raged by him?
Now that's another reason for me to try crossdays once.
About Kotonoha: I don't think it's an external factor. See Kokoro is perfectly( overly) fine.I think it's more like her decision to live in a world of delusions. Her state was so hidden that no one could notice it before they gave her a push. In that sense I pitty Kotonoha, but not because the things happening to her. She made with that the wrong decision like Sekai with her actions, but she felt herself almost fine while Sekai's suffered by it.
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Old 2009-07-19, 08:58   Link #171
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Originally Posted by willyvereb View Post
Act of God? Makoto was such a bastard that even God raged by him?
Now that's another reason for me to try crossdays once.
No, that's just a wish. And Cross Days isn't out yet, only a trial.

Quote:
About Kotonoha: I don't think it's an external factor. See Kokoro is perfectly( overly) fine.I think it's more like her decision to live in a world of delusions. Her state was so hidden that no one could notice it before they gave her a push. In that sense I pitty Kotonoha, but not because the things happening to her. She made with that the wrong decision like Sekai with her actions, but she felt herself almost fine while Sekai's suffered by it.
Maybe Kokoro doesn't know, that's all?
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Old 2009-07-25, 05:16   Link #172
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On Kotonoha, was it ever explained why the girls picked on her even before Makoto's entrance?
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Old 2009-07-25, 08:55   Link #173
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On Kotonoha, was it ever explained why the girls picked on her even before Makoto's entrance?
Her figure. Ok, to be straight forward. Her chest. And I'm not joking.

Also, she's rich. Think H2O ~ footprints in the sand, only reversed.
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Old 2009-07-25, 11:16   Link #174
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Not only that. She isolated herself from them by somewhat her choice. So in the end it seemed to them she's looking down on them(and it's half-right...she answered back pretty harshly to Otome's accusations. Making the matters worse). And as an extra she was(dubiously to her schoolmates) makoto's girlfriend. Otome had a crush on makoto and hearing Kotonoha's "boasts" about being her crush's girlfriend was the last push. Otome felt irritated by her to the core.
Just to clear up the things...Kotonoha wasn't fully innocent in the happenings(even if her acts hardly contained any malice...at first the very least)
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Old 2009-07-25, 20:54   Link #175
yezhanquan
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Ok, I know blending in with the crowd is paramount in Japanese culture, so my next question would be "Why didn't her folks arrange for her to be in a private school?"

Look, as parents, it is not how much you earn which ultimately matters to your kids. After a certain level, it's showing them that you care which counts. With their resources, if they feel that this elder daughter is not telling them the whole story (the "How's school today?" "Fine." routine), then they should very well hire a PI to straighten out the facts for them.

As for the lady herself, again, you're the woman in the hot seat. You know you stick out like a sore thumb, deal with it. If you don't intend to fit in from the get-go, bitch slap them every time they do something to you. You're the one with the gold, make the rules.

Game-wise, I understand that she's supposed to be the damsel waiting for the white knight to protect her. I'm a sucker for such stuff. And yeah, my favourite good ending is the Christmas hotel one.
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Old 2009-07-26, 07:10   Link #176
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Ok, I know blending in with the crowd is paramount in Japanese culture, so my next question would be "Why didn't her folks arrange for her to be in a private school?"
I studied at Aoyama (a Methodist Private school) for some time. You need connections to enter most private schools. Being rich =/= connections. Especially in private schools in Japan. You need to be part of a religious body in order to ensure your child's spot in a private school. Aoyama looks first for Christians, then others. (Or so I hear.) I was a member of the United Methodist Church when I was younger (yes, I was US-educated in kindergarten and elementary).

Quote:
Look, as parents, it is not how much you earn which ultimately matters to your kids. After a certain level, it's showing them that you care which counts. With their resources, if they feel that this elder daughter is not telling them the whole story (the "How's school today?" "Fine." routine), then they should very well hire a PI to straighten out the facts for them.
Look, if she knows she has a PI on her back, it may well make things worse.

Quote:
As for the lady herself, again, you're the woman in the hot seat. You know you stick out like a sore thumb, deal with it. If you don't intend to fit in from the get-go, bitch slap them every time they do something to you. You're the one with the gold, make the rules.
In other words, be a Nanaka Yatsushiro.
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Old 2009-07-26, 07:15   Link #177
yezhanquan
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Well, the Katsura family doesn't strike me as nouveau riche. So, I'm not really convinced that they can't get her to a private school. Probably, they sent her to a public school hoping that she can mix with "commoners". (And she ended up sticking out like a sore thumb. Nice one.)

Again, if the PI exposes the plot, it reflects rather badly on the PI now, doesn't it? More likely, her folks are so busy at work that they don't know the first thing about their daughters.
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Old 2009-07-26, 07:25   Link #178
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Well, the Katsura family doesn't strike me as nouveau riche.
Given the surnames of all the character, NONE of them strike me as nouveau riche. All of them (almost) are somehow meant to be related to some former PM of Japan. Seriously. (Japanese Wiki)

Quote:
So, I'm not really convinced that they can't get her to a private school.
The rich don't always have the right connections when it comes to education. It's easier for a poor Methodist fella to get into Aoyama/Kwansei's affiliated school than a rich atheist.

Quote:
Probably, they sent her to a public school hoping that she can mix with "commoners". (And she ended up sticking out like a sore thumb. Nice one.)
N1 indeed.
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Old 2009-07-26, 08:01   Link #179
yezhanquan
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Yeah, the producers dug up the surnames of past Japanese PMs for this series. However, I can safely say that if Hirobumi-dono is indeed related to Makoto, he'll rise from his grave and strangle the kid.
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Old 2009-07-26, 09:08   Link #180
428
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Yeah, the producers dug up the surnames of past Japanese PMs for this series. However, I can safely say that if Hirobumi-dono is indeed related to Makoto, he'll rise from his grave and strangle the kid.
Absolutely. Makes one wonder, since Taro Aso became PM, I haven't heard of anyone with the surname Aso appearing in a H-game (other thn the one faturing the PM himself).
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