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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 4 Rating
Perfect 10 30 16.76%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 45 25.14%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 42 23.46%
7 out of 10 : Good 32 17.88%
6 out of 10 : Average 15 8.38%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 8 4.47%
4 out of 10 : Poor 5 2.79%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.56%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.56%
Voters: 179. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-07-24, 19:53   Link #221
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chounokoe View Post
I'm not saying people don't enjoy the anime, I'm saying people enjoy ranting about the anime, but it's really starting to get on my nerves. I know it's everyones right to openly discuss his/her opinion, but shouldn't things that were said just be left at that and don't be discussed again and again and again and again?
And this might be the irony, because that also is starting to get on the nerves of some people (me included) when discussion are cycling on different matter, yet not only those who criticized with arguments are immediately caught back with those who praised it, they are considered as "bashers" but that "they are enjoying this" (they were as much as negative hammering as people forced to disagree for the hell of it). Enjoying ranting? As far as how the words were used, I can conclude most if not all are disappointed and vent their frustration. By no mean they start gloating about the anime being unable to convey X or Y, to the contrary.

As far as I know, the fanservice discussion was rather minimal elsewhere and only spurts here. "Emotion lag" was more likely expressed for 1-2 etc. Do some things are recurrent in some complains? sure. Do they always hammer it? no.
Are you forced to read them? neither.
Quote:
Ah well...no use crying, it's not like anybody can be forced to like Umineko, but everyone should consider that it's starting to drive possible fans away, because nearly every site/blog/community is already talking about the raving Umineko fan-community and the fact that the anime is 'no good anyway'...
Everyone should consider that the complete opposite works the same: overeager reaction can befell on the community and result into something like "KILLER LOLI" for higu, or something like Haruhi (viral fanboyism... well, not including the engless eight stuff mind you).
Furthermore, mistaking "disappointed expectations" with "lol this anime is bad" is really debatable.

I didn't mean to fish out again this discussion (critic that is), but it seems there is as much fault from both side: there are things that aren't realistic in some complain, but on the other hand, disagreeing without leaving room for "agree to disagree" just make the spiral going further, despite the "whiners" didn't maintain it.
Thus, if critics don't even poke at people who are praising stuff they disagree with, why would the opposite happen anyway? And what's more is... negative remarks without resorting to comparisons are blooming, thus I think the direction of the discussions is going somewhere forward, isn't it?

I'm repeating myself, but such kind of situation is beyond me, as an anime watcher but also as a moderator: this isn't only a place to hammer the same "great" "sucks!" lines, but to convey what people think of this episode.

Feel free to believe if I'm biased to affect my judgment here, but now I would like this "brawl" between the 2 sides to cease immediately. If one side is allowed to expose their opinion, the other as well, provided they are exposing an opinion, not brainlessly bashing/praising, much less people going at each other's throat. That is all.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2009-07-24 at 20:39.
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Old 2009-07-24, 20:25   Link #222
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The episode was average at best, but I'm not really going to complain about how crappy parts A, B, and C were when compared to the VN. It just wouldn't make sense to do that. The anime is a different medium so a different style has to be adopted. What does get on my nerves is if the story is changed in any way. Go ahead and mess with the small things, but the story should stay the same. In that respect, I think Umineko is much more faithful to the source than its predecessor had been.

That said, I'm perfectly happy with the direction the anime is going and I'm fine with the stuff they chose to omit (since they're going to add them in later anyway). It makes sense too, I mean who's going to remember small details like how Kyrie isn't really Battler's mom until when this particular piece of information becomes relevant? Sure, in the VN it sticks to you since it's been repeated numerous times, but no casual anime-viewer is going to remember (or even pay attention to) something that small for more than a couple episodes. So it's better to shove that piece of detail right before the crucial moment than waste precious seconds in the earlier episodes.

The list of what I don't particularly appreciate so far isn't too long, but whatever is in the list is pretty damn annoying. First of all, I appreciate that they still kept the BGM from the game, but since they've already gone far enough to include these why bother to remix them and turn the volume waaaaaaaaaaay down? And what happened to reoccuring themes like Hope (ver. 1.00) and World End? The other problem I'm finding with the adaptation is the considerable lack or, in some cases, excess of emotion in the characters compared to the VN. It just doesn't feel very convincing to have characters walk in on a murder scene and not freak out. At least do a generic fall-to-your-knees sort of thing, but don't just stand and stare...
In contrast, EvaxNatsuhi's arguments always get quite heated and Maria's expressions are borderline comical. What they need to do is spread out the raging into even doses across the entire episodes, not all at once at particular points.

As a side note.........What the hell did they do to System0? and we better be getting the full, untainted version of Rougoku since I've given up hope for the complete Goldenslaughterer in this arc, if it's to appear at all.
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Old 2009-07-24, 20:26   Link #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I'm repeating myself, but such kind of situation is beyond me, as an anime watcher but also as a moderator: this isn't only a place to hammer the same "great" "sucks!" lines, but to convey what people think of this episode.
Yeah, but I think that all of us have to relax a bit in the good way. We're indeed biased by the SN after all, that's a truth.

And most of the people are really liking it, SN readers or not, so I didn't see problems here. There is a lot of Umineko anime to see, after all, and a lot to enjoy.
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Old 2009-07-24, 20:28   Link #224
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And it's still fairly early into the story. The game has really yet to begin.
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Old 2009-07-24, 22:09   Link #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unconfirmed View Post
First of all, I appreciate that they still kept the BGM from the game, but since they've already gone far enough to include these why bother to remix them and turn the volume waaaaaaaaaaay down?
While I do mostly agree with where you're coming from, I think there are several factors that prevent this from occuring. First, with System0 at least, the reason they had to remix it was that the original had voice samples from Star Trek (iirc) that could cause some copyright problems. Second, some musical sounds/chords that are in the original song in the Sound Novel are fine so long as there isn't any spoken dialogue. When writing music for TV or Movies, one of the worst things that can happen is music that overrides the dialogue.

Klashikari recently posted a video of the System0 scene in the anime with the original game BGM:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Episode 1-4, [...] with original system0

While the music is great and fits the scene, I noticed several times where the music was hitting notes that clashed with Battler's reading of the letter, seeming to drown out what he was saying.

I still think they could have increased the intensity or volume in the anime's final rendition of System0, but keeping the original in this case might not have been the correct decision, had they done that. The crux of the problem with the original System0 is that it's dominant organ usage tries to demand more attention than the dialogue. Background music needs to be background music.
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Old 2009-07-24, 23:01   Link #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freelii View Post
While the music is great and fits the scene, I noticed several times where the music was hitting notes that clashed with Battler's reading of the letter, seeming to drown out what he was saying.

I still think they could have increased the intensity or volume in the anime's final rendition of System0, but keeping the original in this case might not have been the correct decision, had they done that. The crux of the problem with the original System0 is that it's dominant organ usage tries to demand more attention than the dialogue. Background music needs to be background music.
Thanks for that, I liked Klashikari's edit much better. Anyways, I understand that BGMs need to be BGMs, but it happened to work out well in the game since there's no voice acting. Even if there was, you can pause to listen to the music. To a sound novel the BGM is a main component, so that's probably why the anime took a hit when the BGM actually went to the background.
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Old 2009-07-24, 23:12   Link #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unconfirmed View Post
Anyways, I understand that BGMs need to be BGMs, but it happened to work out well in the game since there's no voice acting. Even if there was, you can pause to listen to the music. To a sound novel the BGM is a main component, so that's probably why the anime took a hit when the BGM actually went to the background.
Right. It's almost weird to call it background music in a Sound Novel like Umineko. It has to take on extra responsibility for setting the tone, mood, intensity in a given scene simply because there is no voice acting. To those of us that are VN readers, it may seem like the anime's rendition of music has been.. 'downgraded' or 'dumbed-down' because it has to make room for the voice acting, and is subsequently relegated to being merely what it is called: background music.

While I do think they are doing a good job with the music in the anime (stupefaction <3), I think I agree with the sentiments that they could do just a *bit* better with some of the BGM for the anime.
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Old 2009-07-24, 23:38   Link #228
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Since i'm one of the (few) first time viewer here, i will have some comments on the episode from my view point.......

Spoiler for size...actually:


So yeah.... i ignore most of eps' flaw, so that's why i really enjoy it by the time it finished

Edit1: my only problem with the anime so far is not those still shots, limited movements of characters, but how some of the characters (Maria excluded) seem not so grieving when their family just died at most 24 hours ago

PS: damn.... Battler lose one of his possible harem... damn you Satoshi Kanon xD (j/k)
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Old 2009-07-25, 08:37   Link #229
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Don't know how old this is but here's a preview of Beatrice's voice
http://www.soranokiseki.com/files/CDTrack12.mp3

USHIROMIYA BATTLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER
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Old 2009-07-25, 09:12   Link #230
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Excellent episode, series is looking as good as Higurashi so far. GG are doing a good job with the subs too (though god forbid I wish they'd hurry up with the avi version, I wanna watch it on my PS3 ;_
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Old 2009-07-25, 09:22   Link #231
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@risingstar: the point of the mackerel is that SN readers find the mackerel reference funny and it completely breaks the mood of the scene, not how long it lasts, it's like having natsuhi flash her breasts in the first twilight, that would completely spoil the mood.
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Old 2009-07-25, 10:51   Link #232
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I'm glad I haven't read the SN then, cuz it didn't break the mood of the scene for me.
Altough it made me wonder if she really intended to offer that can as food for everyone in the room o_O.
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Old 2009-07-25, 10:57   Link #233
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There are some small errors like that in the anime , albeit quoting ryukishi:

Quote:
Ryuukishi: Of course. I have been supervising those very carefully. In Higurashi, there were some problems with presentation, and they were allowed to do as they pleased in certain areas. But this time, I have been checking very carefully to make sure there are 'no misconceptions in the presentation' this time, so I think people will be able to significantly enjoy speculation in those as well.
as novel readers we sometimes like to point out that when stuff feels out of place.
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Old 2009-07-25, 10:59   Link #234
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There are some small errors like that in the anime , albeit quoting ryukishi:

Quote:
Ryuukishi: Of course. I have been supervising those very carefully. In Higurashi, there were some problems with presentation, and they were allowed to do as they pleased in certain areas. But this time, I have been checking very carefully to make sure there are 'no misconceptions in the presentation' this time, so I think people will be able to significantly enjoy speculation in those as well.
as novel readers we sometimes like to point out that when stuff feels out of place.
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Old 2009-07-25, 11:49   Link #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunokoe
I'm saying people enjoy ranting about the anime, but it's really starting to get on my nerves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by klashikari
Enjoying ranting? As far as how the words were used, I can conclude most if not all are disappointed and vent their frustration.
I think what chuonokoe means by 'enjoying ranting', is that it's more of how they can get carried away with either repetitive complaints, or nitpicks over the most irrelevant details in the anime, and this can be very frustrating for some regularly checking the threads. While a thread flourishes with a good balance of good and bad criticisms, the key is to determine how much is too much before it falls to the trap of becoming recycle material in general.

Take the current exchange over Eva's chest as an example. Is it in poor taste to have it as an advertising shot? Perhaps, perhaps not, the sentiments vary according to different people. When George lunges and mourns on his dead mother's chest, her chest bounces in response to the impact. Is it possible? Why yes, as to quote a friend, boobs aren't meant to be static. Are the animated jiggly boobs a major distraction? Only if you let it so. Is it worth going on and on about it? Well, it's a very minor point, but for some reason, it escalates at a very quick pace based on the last few posts, not unlike other side topics that were heatedly brought up in the past. You have the option of skipping those posts, but when the same pattern keeps repeating over and over in each episode thread, it reaches a point when it becomes predictable and redundant, and risk being counter-productive in many ways.

Amongst these posts, there's a very noticeable tinge of either a) 'the anime isn't going according to the standards set by the novels' or b) 'the anime isn't adhering point-by-point with the image that I envisioned it to be'. By now, the anime has already established that it isn't swerving towards that direction, it's making choices the way it wants to, and, seeing how there's absolutely nothing people could do about it, it'll be nice to just focus on the anime as it actually is, rather than what it isn't. This isn't about whether people are entitled to post anything they want - this is in fact what people have been doing from the very beginning. There has been no 'brawls' that went out of hand so far, but more over the slightly overwhelming negativity that each threads have been slanted with, and some people have taken the initiative of calling it out. Aside from very few outcries, people here, as well as other places, have been quite level-headed with the way they conveyed their intentions regarding the high rate of nitpicking/complaints.

Edit : maximilianjenus, thanks for the information, that's always nice to know.

Last edited by cheesie; 2009-07-25 at 12:16.
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Old 2009-07-25, 12:37   Link #236
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Originally Posted by Yami Sonozaki View Post
Altough it made me wonder if she really intended to offer that can as food for everyone in the room o_O.
It was supposed to be more but they probably ran out of budget to draw more than 1 can
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Old 2009-07-25, 12:52   Link #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesie View Post
I think what chuonokoe means by 'enjoying ranting', is that it's more of how they can get carried away with either repetitive complaints, or nitpicks over the most irrelevant details in the anime, and this can be very frustrating for some regularly checking the threads. While a thread flourishes with a good balance of good and bad criticisms, the key is to determine how much is too much before it falls to the trap of becoming recycle material in general.
But it's not like you can't have an opinion that's shared with someone else. If you restrict people from expressing what they think, that doesn't actually make for pleasant conversation either.
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Old 2009-07-25, 13:11   Link #238
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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
It was supposed to be more but they probably ran out of budget to draw more than 1 can
Just think she take 1 can out to check if it's still edible, and there are still tons under the desks (Kinzo's emergency food supply xD) or something.....


About the cureent issue, maybe (just maybe) there were stuffs that we thought the anime was lacking, but if add into the screen, it will distract the main event and actually mess up the episode. Then there could be screens where the director thought it will looks gorgeous, but it appear not so well done from audience point of view.
I don't know, but i found it's strange that there are things ordinary novel reader can point out (which should improve the flow of certain screens) but the whole animation/director team failed to even recognise its existence.... It's not like DEEN is an un-named , inexperience company.....
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Old 2009-07-25, 15:05   Link #239
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Decent episode imo. This series along with Higurashi takes advantage of two of humanities nasty little habits. The first being blame as we can see as the number of survivors dwindle the blame becomes more constant and even Beatrice herself left a spell to incite infighting and discord and the result was 3 more deaths. The 2nd would be panic. Humans are very panicky beings and when things go wrong and we have no reason for it we ourselves become unreasonable. Battler seems to be keeping his head for the most part and the only who seems to have a mind for figuring out mysteries. However, he keeps getting set back everytime he thinks he has something figured out an event happens to discount that theory. But as of right now he has the highest chance of survival.

I cant even imagine what the boiler room must have smelled like after pulling that burned corpse out of the furnace it must has been terrible. At first i was not convienced that it was the grandfather however pointing out the 6 toes on the feet kind of cemented that deal for me. The 3 new victims seemed to have died just the first 6 their faces disfigured beyond recognition. Why was the first set and third set of sacrifices faces disfigured but not the 2nd set?

I think right now the survivors need to stick together no matter what and as much as she seems to have gone off the deep end they need to deconstruct Maria's ramblings and try to figure out the riddle on Beatrice's painting.

So far i am liking the series although Higurashi seems superior at this point Umineko has its own appeal and is keeping me entertained thats all i ask.
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Old 2009-07-25, 15:19   Link #240
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Umineko became really, really good around EP3, so it'll be a bit longer.
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