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Old 2009-07-30, 23:33   Link #181
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
People might as well stop cheering for Luffy then since he has quite the loss record so far. You know what it might be? The majority of people just don't like bad guys. I'm like one of the only few people that's actually cheering on the World Government and hoping that they'll prevail in this war. Having the good guys win all the time sucks.
I hope you mean just for this current story arc (just cause the Whitebeard war may end, doesn't mean the overall War has ended (it won't end until either the pirates/revolutionaries or the WG falls)), because while I'd like the WG to win a big one by the end of this arc, the entire government needs a good revolution to come and kill off all of the disgustingly evil Tenryubito that currently control the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
Not really, it is saying Zoro has a high battle capability like Luffy. Capability is one's ability to perform and Zoro's is as High as Luffy's, which means just alike, as strong. But I'm not gonna get into an argument about semantics.
Sorry for the semenatics "battle", but saying Zoro has a high battle capability like Luffy is not necessarily the same as saying Zoro's battle capability is as high as Luffy's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
The same can be asked of Luffy.Can he take on somebody like Daz Bonnes?
Honestly, I expect Luffy would have a harder time with someone like Paula/Miss Doublefinger who can produce tough spikes anywhere on her body (while Luffy certainly can't take the damage from Daz Bones attacks, there is no reason to believe he couldn't simply stamp on him a few times, or kick him out into the desert).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mateus View Post
Wapol was the only villain in One Piece that I absolutely could not stand, as kakakka stated above the others are too amusing to really hate.
Really? What about "Dick" Spandam or the "Assfuck" Tenryubito (these are official titles, mind you)? Wapol seems like a feather-weight compared to their sheer douchebaggery.
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Old 2009-07-30, 23:59   Link #182
Master Mold
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Originally Posted by seiji_kun View Post
So Ace track record is superior to Luffy's just cause he has the backing from the world strongest which seems partly due to him beeing Roger's son.
.................One Piece has been boring for ages so I don't really pay attention like I use to....would you mind pointing that out for me?

Quote:
That's some fine reasoning even if nothing suggests that Ace did stunts like taking down 2 warlords, finding the golden bell clearing Norland lies, taking down EL, hitting a tenryuubito, beeing the first man on AI, beeing the first person who managed to penetrate ID and beeing the main cause of ID mass prison outbreak. Maybe Oda should've made OP about Ace and not Luffy.
Track record =/= Career.

and even if you wanna talk about Career I still see Aces above Luffy's at this point.

Quote:
Luffy is the future pirate king and the protagonist so for me it's like a given that his adventure would be more impressive and interesting then anyone ever. Even WB or Roger himself.
Thanks Cap N for the obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
It's always courteous and respectful to back up your claims with some kind of reasoning. A simple "I am" doesn't quite suffice, I'm afraid.
Hey.....Until Ace whoops the sh8t out of the two guys its nothing but an opinion.

Quote:
Listen. If Ace's flames were as powerful and hot as you claim they are (and the evidence in the manga suggests otherwise), Blackbeard would have most likely been incinerated by them. All he suffered were some minor burns. That level of heat is far from being capable of turning sand into glass.
LOL you talk as if Blackbread or the rest of the one Piece cast in that power division ain't a bunch of super powered humans.

Quote:
Reread the fight, because it's clear that you don't remember the circumstances on how Moria lost.
Dint't the SH crew take down his main weapon Oz, and then a lone weakened Luffy beat the stuffing out of Moria as if he was a turkey? Who in turn was just staling until the sun came up for he was just that weak?

Quote:
The funny thing is, Crocodile and Moria get a lot of flak just because they lost already, and are therefore perceived as being weak by a lot of fans; whereas Ace also lost (and pretty badly at that) against Blackbeard, and yet he doesn't get any flak whatsoever. I can call Ace a weakling just because he lost against Blackbeard. Is that true, though? No, it isn't. The point is, it's a fallacious argument to say that someone is weak just because they have a loss on their record, whether it be by circumstantial plot or simply being overwhelmed by a superior adversary.

The impertinence of some One Piece fans really astounds me sometimes.
Of course you can't call Ace weak for losing against Blackbeard, its not if you lost already, that makes you weak, but how you lost. and Croc fell off ever since he got punked by that tranny.

@Phenom:why are you arguing again about the canon fact Luffy and Zoro are equals in battle power, seriously if they don't accept it from the supposed "best Arthur in jump" lol you think they are going to listen to you?

shut Up.(JK)

Last edited by Master Mold; 2009-07-31 at 00:40.
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Old 2009-07-31, 01:28   Link #183
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Originally Posted by andy View Post

Honestly, I expect Luffy would have a harder time with someone like Paula/Miss Doublefinger who can produce tough spikes anywhere on her body (while Luffy certainly can't take the damage from Daz Bones attacks, there is no reason to believe he couldn't simply stamp on him a few times, or kick him out into the desert).
Technically he couldn't kick or stamp on daz bones. Daz Bones ability was to turn into blades/swords. If luffy tried kicking him, all he needed to do was to turn that area where luffy was kicking into a blade.

Tried throwing a tomato at the blade of a sharp knife? that's what would happen to luffy's leg except that since luffy would be kicking at a very strong force, luffy's leg should be pretty much gone.
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Old 2009-07-31, 01:46   Link #184
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Originally Posted by Hisoka?? View Post
Technically he couldn't kick or stamp on daz bones. Daz Bones ability was to turn into blades/swords. If luffy tried kicking him, all he needed to do was to turn that area where luffy was kicking into a blade.

Tried throwing a tomato at the blade of a sharp knife? that's what would happen to luffy's leg except that since luffy would be kicking at a very strong force, luffy's leg should be pretty much gone.
If Daz Bones were only strong thank to his DF the there is no ways he can resist against Luffy. Remember that when Luffy's in his third gear, even the snake sisters who can read his mind beforehand couldn't even follow his move....

So by the time Daz Bones start to think about turn his arms or legs into sword to block Luffy's attack, he probably have eat enough dose of Gomu Gomu gattling....

The scenario will be like:
Daz Bones: "Hmmm.. he rush in, i will just turn my....." *die*
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Old 2009-07-31, 01:50   Link #185
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Sorry for the semenatics "battle", but saying Zoro has a high battle capability like Luffy is not necessarily the same as saying Zoro's battle capability is as high as Luffy's.
Sorry, got to do it to you again...
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/like


Quote:
Honestly, I expect Luffy would have a harder time with someone like Paula/Miss Doublefinger who can produce tough spikes anywhere on her body (while Luffy certainly can't take the damage from Daz Bones attacks, there is no reason to believe he couldn't simply stamp on him a few times, or kick him out into the desert)..
Like Hisoka above said, Daz is a blade, if Luffy tries to attack he is waffles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold
@Phenom:why are you arguing again about the canon fact Luffy and Zoro are equals in battle power, seriously if they don't accept it from the supposed "best Arthur in jump" lol you think they are going to listen to you?

shut Up.(JK)
Yeah, I know huh, all the hard facts and people still trying to put Luffy as the superior when ODA has said and shown otherwise. Luffy and Zoro are equals in fighting power, it was shown when they fought in whiskey Peak, Zoro TANKING ALL THE DAMAGE LUFFY TOOK in Thriller Bark and the Red and Yellow Databook even has them the same in ability. If Oda wanted to make clear who was superior he would have let Luffy win back in whiskey Peak.
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Old 2009-07-31, 02:38   Link #186
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Originally Posted by Let'sFightingLove View Post

[SNIP]

His devil fruit grants him the ability to divide by zero.
Since you are new here, for future reference, you are not allowed to post entire translated pictures of licensed material, nor are you allowed to post websites in which licensed material can be found.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
Sorry, got to do it to you again...
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/like
If you had actually read all of the definitions for like, you could have learned that like can be used to indicate something "Nearly or approximately" the same (in other words, not equal). And, once again, similar (since that is the main defintion for like) does not mean equal, in fact, if you would look up the word similar (in your ghetto dictionary (why don't you at least use an accredited online dictionary?)), you would see that the word means "alike but not identical/equal". So, once again, you are wrong.

---

That being said, and to actually get back to the chapter at hand, and not meaningless pissing contests ("blah blah, my character is better than yours, and here is my interpretation of events that make me right, blah blah!"), are there any good ideas for how or who opened the Gate of Justice? I kind of want either Garp or DoFlamingo to have opened the Gate. I have no real reason for wanting this, especially for Garp who is too far out of the way to have actually done it, but DoFlamingo could potentially use his powers to have done it. Additionally, maybe Hancock "charmed" someone to open the gate. Whatever the case, it is an interesting mystery that I hope will addressed sometime soon...then again WAR, so who cares about whomever opened the door, just let the fighting start . While Luffy will certainly enter the field next chapter, I do not expect anymore from him for at leats the next 3 chapters.

Added to that, the Chopper mini-story is a bit of a letdown. What happened to the giant birds he ran into originally? That being said, the little savage kid was worth a chuckle, and the weapons they are using look interesting (rocket propelled spears ), but the perspective is all off, and the sketching seems to be very last minute. Here's hoping next week's episode is more interesting, because right now I am more underwhelmed than with Usopp's mini-story.

Last edited by james0246; 2009-07-31 at 04:54.
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Old 2009-07-31, 03:43   Link #187
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I cant think of a situation where the crew fought because someone was doing something evil and they didnt agree to it.
Bellamy?

World Nobles?

How about Zoro picking up the injured guy and taking him to the hopsital?

Captain Morgan?

I'm sure Luffy would have saved Nami's village even if he didn't want her as a crewmate.

Quote:
Like Hisoka above said, Daz is a blade, if Luffy tries to attack he is waffles.
Lolz Luffy is tough. Even though he can't do tekkai, I'm sure he can do something similar or else his skin has a natural toughness which acts as a defence mechanism. Something which will hurt Daz (i.e immense strength) probably wouldn't hurt Luffy as much due to their differences in power; granted, Daz is a strong opponent, but Luffy is several levels above him. Just because he has an inherent advantage against Luffy, it won't amount to too much due to their huge differences in level.

Regarding the whole Zoro v Luffy thing, I think that their difference in strength isn't as great as the difference in strength between Daz and Luffy. However, Zoro's inherent advantage isn't as great either (as his body isn't a huge blade), thus I think Luffy's strength will prevail. Luffy is a stronger character; why is it so hard to accept that?

Btw does noone find this interesting:~

Quote:
Its interesting actually, because he only set off 3 years ago. That would mean he was offered Shichibukai place around 2 years ago. We know that Moria became a Shichibukai 10 years ago, Croc was already Shichibukai 3 years before, Hancock was offered a place 11 years ago and Jimbei joined 8 years ago. So that would mean that since there was a spot open 2 years ago, either Kuma, Doflamingo or Mihawk joined then, unless ofcourse, there used to be more then 7 warlords, in which case the name of the group would not be Shi'chi'bukai.
My guess is that Mihawk is the newest member of the Shichibukai, being offered a place after Ace turned it down.
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Old 2009-07-31, 04:01   Link #188
Master Mold
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Regarding the whole Zoro v Luffy thing, I think that their difference in strength isn't as great as the difference in strength between Daz and Luffy. However, Zoro's inherent advantage isn't as great either (as his body isn't a huge blade), thus I think Luffy's strength will prevail. Luffy is a stronger character; why is it so hard to accept that?
Is that why they fought as equals? is that why the red data book has both Luffy and Zoro's strength as six? Is that way the yellow data Book states.....you know what forget it. Canon > your Opinions, you guys can stay in denial all you want, I won't waste my time trying to pull you out of the void, been there done that on bigger forums and as soon as the Pro Luffy > Zoro fanclub are proven wrong (time after time), with facts and such, they act as if it never happened, went right back to saying the same nonsense, as if there so called Fanon factual arguments and opinions are really proving something.

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Btw does noone find this interesting:~
Yes.
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Old 2009-07-31, 04:10   Link #189
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Sigh

You're so full of shit its almost funny but not really because you're making me waste my time but typing this.

There are quite a number of reasons why I believe Luffy to be a stronger character:

1) Luffy is the captain
2) Zoro is a character who respects strength. He would never follow someone who he did not believe was stronger then himself.
3) There have been several characters who have commented on that and their relationship.

FOR EXAMPLE:
Quote:
only the first mate and yet he has a bounty of a hundred and twenty million...He certainly doesn't seem the type to serve under another...I suppose that speaks volumes about the Captain....
- Urouge

4) Luffy always fights the strongest enemy (often by some distance to the second strongest): Kuro, Arlong, Krieg, Croc, Enel, Lucci (2x as powerful as Kaku and Jyabura), Moria, implying that he is the strongest member of the crew.
5) Luffy's bounty is twice Zoro's.
6) Luffy's dream is to become Pirate King; Zoro's is to become the greatest swordsman. Mihawk HIMSELF commented on this, saying that Luffy's dream was even harder then Zoro's, and that Luffy would have to surpass him (Mihawk) to reach it.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/52/11/
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Last edited by paradox13; 2009-07-31 at 05:05.
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Old 2009-07-31, 04:23   Link #190
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^This thread needs to get back on track and away from pointless discussion. A war is about to hit, there is plenty of interesting things in this chapter to discuss.

---

And, yes, I did find it interesting that Ace was offered the position of Shichibukai. I don't really think the position was filled later on by Mihawk, though. He has been famous for too long for him not to have accepted, or become ineligable, for the title quite some time ago. So, it was probably Kuma or DoFlamingo that eventually accepted the position, with Kuma being my guess (I say this for no other reason than X. Drake mentioning the recentness of the Pacifistas, this could have nothing to do with Kuma, or it could be indicitive of Kuma's rise to power).

Last edited by james0246; 2009-07-31 at 04:53.
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Old 2009-07-31, 04:28   Link #191
Master Mold
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See I would have let this slip......but nooooo someone had to go and toss around insults.



Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Sigh

You're so full of shit its almost funny but not really because you're making me waste my time but typing this.
I can find a better use for this line, I'll prove it to you.

Quote:
There are quite a number of reasons why I believe Luffy to be a stronger character:
Canon > Opinions

Quote:
1) Luffy is the captain
&? The captain and his crew mate has already traded blows as equals, Red data book both have The captain and his crewmate having a 6 for strength, then came the Yellow Data Book etc etc.

Quote:
2) Zoro is a character who respects strength. He would never follow someone who he did not believe was stronger then himself.
I thought Zoro followed Luffy out to sea so he could met up with the strongest swordsman in the world who just so happens to be a Pirate? IIRC

Quote:
3) There have been several characters who have commented on that and their relationship.


FOR EXAMPLE:

- Urouge
That door swing both ways son.


Quote:
4) Luffy always fights the strongest enemy (often by some distance to the second strongest): Kuro, Arlong, Krieg, Croc, Enel, Lucci (2x as powerful as Kaku and Jyabura), Moria, implying that he is the strongest member of the crew.
Zoro fought Mihawk then Kuma.

Quote:
5) Luffy's bounty is twice Zoro's.
Then way didn't Zoro get WTF pwned when Luffy fought him?

Quote:
6) Luffy's dream is to become Pirate King; Zoro's is to become the greatest swordsman. Mihawk HIMSELF commented on this, saying that Luffy's dream was even harder then Zoro's, and that Luffy would have to surpass him (Mihawk) to reach it.
it is, hence the whole gathering a crew etc etc, and finding something instead of beating a guy who is taking on all comers.

Quote:
Conclusion: You're dumb and shouldn't talk.

Your only argument: OMFG ITS THE DATABOOKS MUST B RIGHT COS DATABOOKS R CANON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gj. Now be quiet and let those who aren't actually retarded talk.

Thanks Mr Mold
xx
"You're so full of shit its almost funny but not really because you're making me waste my time but typing this."

C I told you there was a better use for this line.

Last edited by Master Mold; 2009-07-31 at 05:25. Reason: Removes pointless stuff.
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Old 2009-07-31, 04:40   Link #192
james0246
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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
James...Sanji has a 5. Luffy and Zoro have a six in the red data books, and the Yellow data book came out after Luffy (Gears) and Zoro's (Asura) up grades, and you have a inability to properly decipher my post, for I am not using the red data book for the current Luffy and Zoro.

Next.
I'm not sure what you mean. I was commenting on the untrustworthiness of ratings in the data books, and the inability for the characters to be properly compared based on base level info provided in the books. The numbers themselves were almost meaningless to my "message", rather they only served as a basic example.

Additionally, I fully understand what is in the books and what is not, my point was that the ratings, whatever they may be, and whether or not they are used or not, do not include multipliers. This is the case with all data books for the Big 3 and most other series (that receive one). While techniques may be listed, how they effect the overall power rating are never numerically given. Consequently, once again, it is almost impossible to compare the characters based solely on info derived from the data books (this is more infamously seen by posters trying to compare data from the Naruto data books; thankfully this doesn't really occur among One Piece fans).
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Old 2009-07-31, 04:45   Link #193
Master Mold
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I'm not sure what you mean. I was commenting on the untrustworthiness of ratings in the data books, and the inability for the characters to be properly compared based on base level info provided in the books. The numbers themselves were almost meaningless to my "message", rather they only served as a basic example.
LMAO!, Weasky Peak happened before the red data book came out, Luffy and Zoro both traded blows as equals, fight was ended as a draw. The 2 (Luffy and Zoro) both have a six and a showing before the data books where released, that right there sh8ts on you untrustworthiness notion.

Quote:
Additionally, I fully understand what is in the books and what is not, my point was that the ratings, whatever they may be, do not include multipliers. This is the case with all data books for the Big 3 and most other series (that receive one). While techniques may be listed, how they effect the overall power rating are never numerically given. Consequently, once again, it is almost impossible to compare the characters based solely on info derived from the data books.
James its not that deep quite acting like it is. Seriously.
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Old 2009-07-31, 04:52   Link #194
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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
James its not that deep quite acting like it is. Seriously.
No, it is that deep. People misuse these books all the time. They are useful only as a means of providing info on character background, general histories, technique names (and if available, ranks), etc. They are not meant to be Versus materials, and the like, and to use them to justify a versus discussion is false.

That being said, can we please drop this pointless discussion. We all have big dicks, and we can all pee far. This is a worthless debate to have in a Current Chapter thread, and we all look just silly for even trying to continue it. So, can we please just give up this line of discussion (or at least start a new thread only dealing with this line of discussion).
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Old 2009-07-31, 04:59   Link #195
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Chinese readers, gather and translate, yes its Chinese and not even Japanese, we're doing a translation of a translation here, its the source where Phenomenal used:

Quote:
"保持著和路飛一様的高戦鬥力"
Translation: "Having a high battle capability like Luffy"

If it was written this way: "保持著和路飛一様高的戦鬥力"

Then Phenomenal and Master Mold is correct. "一様高的戦鬥力" means 'battle capability as strong as'.

But no, it is written "保持著和路飛一様的高戦鬥力", which points that Luffy and Zoro are just people with high capability. You can insert, Sanji, Franky, the Supernovas, the Shichibukai, Admirals, Yonkou, everyone who has high battle capability into the same sentence.

"Zoro has a high battle capability like Daz Bones"
"Zoro has a high battle capability like Rayleigh"
"Zoro has a high battle capability like Lucci"

This is what the sentence means.
------------------

And on Zoro having a draw with Luffy, lets put them in numbers and Zoro having advantage over Luffy by using swords as a 200% multiplier.

Lets say Luffy has a strength of 10, Zoro draws with him. This means Zoro only has a strength of 5, it is multiplied by 2 to match Luffy.

Ok that's a bit too much, how bout a 125% multiplier. Which means Zoro only has a strength of 8, multiplied by 125% to become 10 to match Luffy.

Now lets put Zoro and Luffy against someone else as an example, lets say Lucci has a rating of 9.

Luffy can beat Lucci because his rating is 10, Lucci loses because he is 9.
Zoro can't beat Lucci because his rating is 8, Lucci wins because he is 9.

This shows that even with Zoro drawing with Luffy, he can only draw with added advantage with swords. He is weaker when compared to other characters.
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Old 2009-07-31, 05:03   Link #196
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
No, it is that deep.
Like a 13 year old comic book.

LMAO!

Quote:
People misuse these books all the time. They are useful only as a means of providing info on character background, general histories, technique names (and if available, ranks), etc. They are not meant to be Versus materials, and the like, and to use them to justify a versus discussion is false.
Wow, this is false. That's all I can say.

Quote:
That being said, can we please drop this pointless discussion. We all have big dicks, and we can all pee far. This is a worthless debate to have in a Current Chapter thread, and we all look just silly for even trying to continue it. So, can we please just give up this line of discussion (or at least start a new thread only dealing with this line of discussion).
Sure.(don't lie)
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Old 2009-07-31, 05:14   Link #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Like a 13 year old comic book.

LMAO!
Well, the books seem to baffle you, and quite a few other people...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Wow, this is false. That's all I can say.
No, it is correct. Any logical thinking person would realize that the stats in a data book make almost no sense when compared against each other, especially since various multipliers are never taken into account in the presentation of the stats (as C.A. has so elequently shown...and he has effortlessly denounced and trounced any argument you falsely formulate from the data books), and some stats are said to be equal amongst the characters, but are never shown to be equal in the series (this happens all the time in the Naruto stat sheets), etc.

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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Sure.
Then I am glad you have a big dick like me, and are willing to toss aside this worthless conversation (I have even edited a lot of my posts to get rid of this conversation).
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Old 2009-07-31, 05:24   Link #198
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James you lied to me.

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Well, the books seem to baffle you, and quite a few other people...
quite the opposite.

Quote:
No, it is correct.
So......Data books are not meant to be Versus materials, any one on a battle forum who has sense would laugh at you. Most of the biggest debates are settled by the use of Data books and the like.

Quote:
Any logical thinking person
A person who over analyzes =/= logical thinking person.

Quote:
would realize that the stats in a data book make almost no sense when compared against each other, especially since various multipliers are never taken into account in the presentation of the stats (as C.A. has so elequently shown...and he has effortlessly denounced and trounced any argument you falsely formulate from the data books), and some stats are said to be equal amongst the characters, but are never shown to be equal in the series (this happens all the time in the Naruto stat sheets), etc.
Two bad we have already had a showing for Luffy and Zoro. Not to mention, If a creator state X, there does not HAVE to be a showing all the time, but that's a debate for another day.

Quote:
Then I am glad you have a big dick like me, and are willing to toss aside this worthless conversation (I have even edited a lot of my posts to get rid of this conversation).
Good on ya, hope you mean it this time.

Last edited by Master Mold; 2009-07-31 at 05:50.
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Old 2009-07-31, 05:32   Link #199
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I am pretty sure that Master Mold and Phenomenom are both accounts controlled by one person and he is just lame enough to use 2 accounts for trolling.

It is pretty obvious if you compare those posts and how they are typed and general message on them, only diffrence is those thumb sigs that are inserted to Master Molds posts.

They are both just trolls trying to cause flame wars on numerous threads.
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Old 2009-07-31, 05:37   Link #200
Master Mold
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: LA CA
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^Hey your right, you got a eye for detail, I also think James0246 is my 3rd account that I use, heck lets take this to the Mods and see what they think of your great deduction skills, With an eye for detail, only one truth prevails.

On topic, is it me or does the WG seem to be out numbered when it comes to named players on there side? but then again most of Newgates forces such as his 14 Commanders might not be given names (until a data book comes out sometime after this event) or could just be food for the strong, to coz hype for Odas neglected, missing speech bubble characters. Such as Mihawk, Doflamingo, smoker and gang, and maybe some Vice admirals. I hope next's weeks chapter sets up who is going to fight who or how.

Last edited by Master Mold; 2009-07-31 at 05:54.
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