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Old 2009-07-31, 22:09   Link #2601
Raiga
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Back to asking questions!

I've seen に used to top off lists before, sommat along the lines of A、B、にC like that, sort of like the English "and" but I get the feeling it's different. Could someone explain its use and meaning in this situation to me?
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Old 2009-08-01, 07:08   Link #2602
mendokusa
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normally when there are some something,
AとBとCがあります。(there are A,B and C.)
like this.
but when something is too many,
there is に before final thing,it's easy to understand these's end.
this に is meaning of "addition".
A、B、に(加kuwaえて)Cがあります。
There is C,besides A and B.

,can use like next,too
Aに、Bに、Cがあります。
=AとB(とor、)Cがあります。
when checking something,often use this sentence.

hanako:Are you ready?
tadashi;one moment please.
tadashi;財布saihuに、時計(tokei)に、・・・・あっ!メモ帳chouがない!
(wallet,watch,...oh!there is no tickler file!)
hanako:Hurry up!
tadashi;財布、時計、にメモ帳、全部zennbuあるな。よしっ!
(there is tickler file,besids wallet and watch.)
hanako:Let's go!

Last edited by mendokusa; 2009-08-08 at 20:41.
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Old 2009-08-02, 19:57   Link #2603
Raiga
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Kay, I think I get it. Thanks.

言える is not in the dictionary so I assume it's a form of the verb 言う, but what form is it and what's the meaning?
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Old 2009-08-03, 05:05   Link #2604
Kylaran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiga View Post
Kay, I think I get it. Thanks.

言える is not in the dictionary so I assume it's a form of the verb 言う, but what form is it and what's the meaning?
-える is the potential form that means something like "to be able to," "capable of," etc. The conjugation for it is fairly regular.

一段 or ichidan verbs (aka -る verbs) become -られる as in 食べる -> 食べられる

The rest follow the standard pattern of shifting down to the え and adding る, which is further conjugated as any ichidan verbs are.

So, for example, 言う shifts from う to え and adds a る becoming 言える meaning "to be able to say" (e.g. それが言えますかね? "Will/Are you able to say that?).

The only difference is する and 来る. する becomes 出来る and 来る becomes 来られる/来れる because they're both irregular. する itself has no potential form; 出来る is capable of expressing potentiality without having to conjugate into a form with -える, so it expresses the same thing even in -ます form.

As you'll experience with Japanese, many conjugations are not included in the dictionary. Usually the terminal form is used (終止形) in dictionaries for verbs, but it's also known as "dictionary form" precisely for that same reason.

Last edited by Kylaran; 2009-08-03 at 07:06. Reason: Added a few subtleties.
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Old 2009-08-03, 10:29   Link #2605
Raiga
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Yah, I'm using an online dictionary that recently added the feature "check verb form," but I guess it's not perfect yet. Thanks.

Er, how would 来られる/来れる be read?
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Old 2009-08-03, 10:36   Link #2606
mendokusa
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来koられる/来koれる
”-られる” express many meaning,"possible","respect","passive"
so only when meaning of "possible",some people use"-れる".
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Old 2009-08-05, 01:06   Link #2607
iLney
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Thanks everyone who answered my last question

空が暗くなるやいなや、雨が降り出した.

Here, should 降り出した reads おりだした or ふり出した?
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Old 2009-08-05, 01:13   Link #2608
Raiga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mendokusa View Post
来koられる/来koれる
-られる express many meaning,"possible","respect","passive"
so only when meaning of "possible",some people use"-れる".
Alright, thanks. So if 言える means "able to say," what about 言われる? It sounds more similar to the ichidan construction of adding -られる, actually.
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Old 2009-08-05, 04:59   Link #2609
RandomGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiga View Post
Alright, thanks. So if 言える means "able to say," what about 言われる? It sounds more similar to the ichidan construction of adding -られる, actually.
It's the passive form: "to be said", or "to be told", depending on the context.
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Old 2009-08-05, 05:55   Link #2610
nikorai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
Thanks everyone who answered my last question

空が暗くなるやいなや、雨が降り出した.

Here, should 降り出した reads おりだした or ふり出した?
Here it is obviously 'furidasu' (to begin to rain).

No sooner did the sky become dark than it started raining.
Or: It started raining as soon as the sky became dark.
Or: The moment the sky became dark, it started raining.

’Oriru’ can be found in the expression
清水の舞台から飛び降りる。

'furu' godan
'oriru' ichidan
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Last edited by nikorai; 2009-08-05 at 08:24.
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Old 2009-08-05, 10:00   Link #2611
Raiga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomGuy View Post
It's the passive form: "to be said", or "to be told", depending on the context.
Okay, passive. How do you form the passive with ichidan verbs?
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Old 2009-08-05, 10:52   Link #2612
mendokusa
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Quote:
言われる
passive form
ichidan verb
-られる
見る⇒見られる
godan verb
-aれる
書く⇒書かれる
this ichidan verb is same possible verb.
so sometime when possible meaning,use that without ら.
見られる⇒見れる
Quote:
降り出す
降oりる
when get off car,train and so on.
for will
降fuる
when rain or snow
for nature
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Old 2009-08-05, 18:59   Link #2613
solomon
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random question

What is the name of the little dot used in between first and last foreign names when written in katakana. I CANT REMEMBER!!!!!
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Old 2009-08-05, 21:03   Link #2614
JINNSK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
random question

What is the name of the little dot used in between first and last foreign names when written in katakana. I CANT REMEMBER!!!!!
It's 中黒(nakaguro).
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Old 2009-08-06, 19:14   Link #2615
solomon
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Thanks.

Also I was wondering, does any one still do the pen pal system in this day and age?

I was talking with my mom and she suggested that keeping one would be a good way to practice the language in effect.
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Old 2009-08-06, 22:17   Link #2616
mendokusa
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send me private message for japanese practice.
or these days sometimes I talk with here's someone on MSN messenger.
welcome
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Old 2009-08-07, 01:12   Link #2617
mokopi
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Hello~! みんなお元気ですか~。

^_^

I have a question today

洗濯物( )たんすの引き出し(て)しまう。

One of the many questions in my 復習テスト paper D8...

I'm not very sure what the question wants.

Like, should it be:

sentakumono wo tansu no hikidashiteshimau (?)
Pull out the laundry from cabinet (but, shouldn't the の be に instead?)

Here's how the question looks like. I'm supposed to fill in the blanks with the particles が・を・に・で and arrange the sequence of the actions on the left... I've inserted my answers here but...


(4) 1洗濯物(が)かわく。  <<The laundry is dry.
(3) 2洗濯物(を)洗濯機(に)洗う。  <<Wash laundry in washer.
(2) 3洗濯機(に)水と洗剤(を)入れる。  <<Put water and detergent into washer.
(5) 4洗濯物( )たんすの引き出し(て)しまう。(This is the one that bugged me) 
(1) 5洗濯物(を)干す。  <<Dry the laundry.
(6) 6洗濯物(を)たたむ。  <<Fold the laundry.

I assume 4 is the first action... though I don't see why dirty laundry are kept in the cabinet o.O... unless the cabinet means a totally different thing altogether... like part of the washer or something...

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Old 2009-08-07, 03:18   Link #2618
mendokusa
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Quote:
(4) 1洗濯物(が)かわく。  <<The laundry is dry.
(3) 2洗濯物(を)洗濯機(に)洗う。  <<Wash laundry in washer.
(2) 3洗濯機(に)水と洗剤(を)入れる。  <<Put water and detergent into washer.
(5) 4洗濯物( )たんすの引き出し(て)しまう。(This is the one that bugged me) 
(1) 5洗濯物(を)干す。  <<Dry the laundry.
(6) 6洗濯物(を)たたむ。  <<Fold the laundry.
there is answer ,but font color is white.
you have your answer,and you can read by"CTRL+A"

3→2→5→1→6→4
1が
2を、で
3に、を
4を、に
5を
6を

use"で",when ways and means.
電車densha行iく
go by train
手紙tegami想omoいを伝tsutaえる
convey love by letter

use"引hiき出daして" when take out from たんす.
服fukuをたんすから引き出して着kiる。
take out clothes from wardrobe,and wear one.

sorry,4's 2nd is "に".

Last edited by mendokusa; 2009-08-08 at 20:42.
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Old 2009-08-07, 10:05   Link #2619
mokopi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mendokusa View Post
there is answer ,but font color is white.
you have your answer,and you can read by"CTRL+A"

3→2→5→1→6→4
1が
2を、で
3に、を
4を、で
5を
6を

use"で",when ways and means.
電den車sha行iく
go by train
手te紙gami想omoいを伝tsutaえる
convey love by letter

use"引hiき出daして" when take out from たんす.
服fukuをたんすから引き出して着kiる。
take out clothes from wardrobe,and wear one.
Ah I see

But how come "の" is used in 洗濯物をたんす引き出してしまう。 ?
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Old 2009-08-07, 10:15   Link #2620
mendokusa
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”引き出し”is a part of "たんす".drawer

一段目ichidannmeの引hiき出kiしが壊kowaれる。
break down the first drawer

AをBにしまう。
put A in B.

洗濯物を たんすの 引き出しに しまう
put the laundry in a drawer of wardrobe

Last edited by mendokusa; 2009-08-08 at 20:42.
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