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Old 2009-08-09, 03:33   Link #301
AsterSelene
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And while you're at it, can you provide evidence that supports HaruKyon and doesn't bash every other pairing? I challenge you. Explicit evidence that doesn't line-by-line overanalyze.

And don't give me that "he's in denial" crap, I've had enough of it. Or that "he doesn't understand himself" crap.
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Old 2009-08-09, 03:33   Link #302
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Nudvik View Post
I will say this though: I think anyone saying Itsuki has no romantic interest in Kyon is very wrong. There are many numerous indications to the contrary throughout the course of the series. I don't personally think he is homosexual though. I'm more inclined to believe he's bi, mostly from his expressed interest in Haruhi. Which by comparison pails to that shown to Kyon through subtle dialogue or animated moments.
Where the line is from escapes me, but Itsuki says in one story that he only acts gay because Haruhi expects it of him.

I'm more inclined to think he's just doing it to mess with the incredibly and obviously homophobic Kyon, though.

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Originally Posted by Nudvik View Post
This is especially true in Haruhi-chan, which seems to be used frequently shed light on some of the more overlooked mysteries in this series. Such as whether or not Tsuruya has esper powers and her level of involvement with the Organisation.
Haruhi-chan isn't canon. All of the jokes and concepts it uses is stuff fans have come up with over the years. It's not even written by Tanigawa, though he found it funny.

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Originally Posted by AsterSelene View Post
Like so many HaruKyon fans, you're overanalyzing. Haruhi's meant to be literal, not OHGOG LET'S ANALYZE THE HELL OUT OF EVERY CHARACTER AND THE AUTHOR. I made that mistake with other series. You don't want to face the disappointment.
Um... it's actually not very literal at all. I don't know how you're able to read the novels without understanding that.

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Originally Posted by AsterSelene View Post
And while you're at it, can you provide evidence that supports HaruKyon and doesn't bash every other pairing? I challenge you. Explicit evidence that doesn't line-by-line overanalyze.

And don't give me that "he's in denial" crap, I've had enough of it. Or that "he doesn't understand himself" crap.
There isn't. There isn't a single piece of material actually black-and-white in the text that supports the HaruKyon pairing.

(And yet, it's fairly obvious.)

Nor, for that matter, is there black-and-white evidence that supports a YukiKyon pairing other than that line you mentioned, and even then that requires analysis to understand.

The only pairing that can be inferred from the text is MikuruKyon... and that's obviously not going to happen, due to loltimetravel.

Again, how are you reading these novels if you can't read between the lines and try to understand what Kyon is actually thinking rather than saying?
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Old 2009-08-09, 03:39   Link #303
AsterSelene
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*sighs* Right now's not a good time to get in a shipping war with me, it's late in the night and I'm cranky and tired and really intense. Like I said, I'm fine with HaruKyon. What I'm NOT fine with is people going OMYGODHARUHIANDKYONARESOGONNAGETTOGETHERIT'S100%GO NNAHAPPENANDEVERYONEELSEISGONNAFAIL. Always leave room for doubt!

Hence, I'm out, and hopefully next morning I'll lose some of the fangirlism. But once again, I don't think any pairing - YukiKyon included, and especially ItsuHaru, ItsuKyon, MikuKyon, or HaruKyon - should be considered definite, like many other fangirls like me consider.

Who's like my friend Akai and believes there'll be no pairing at all? xD

Last edited by AsterSelene; 2009-08-09 at 03:55.
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Old 2009-08-09, 03:55   Link #304
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Where the line is from escapes me, but Itsuki says in one story that he only acts gay because Haruhi expects it of him.

I'm more inclined to think he's just doing it to mess with the incredibly and obviously homophobic Kyon, though.
I can't quite recall where that's from myself, but it doesn't seem unlikely. However, even when Haruhi isn't present and he and Kyon are quite alone he retains his teasingly affectionate attitude. I'm certain his cheery demeanour is a facade, but I doubt his actions towards Kyon are the same. There are also numerous moments in the anime which show Itsuki clearly looking at Kyon in a fashion not befitting of a heterosexual male. Such as the scene on in Lone Island Syndrome where he is quietly staring at Kyon's neck with a rather complicated expression on his face. Plus, this series has many harem aspects, and it's my view that EVERY SOS member has, or will have a romantic interest in him. Including Slider-tan.

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Haruhi-chan isn't canon. All of the jokes and concepts it uses is stuff fans have come up with over the years. It's not even written by Tanigawa, though he found it funny.
I consider it to be a very intelligent use of an alternate device to give the fans hints of varying sizes about things they have long pondered. Obviously the events in Haruhi-chan are comical, but most if not all are simply exaggerations of the existing canon.
Not being written directly by Tanigawa isn't especially relevant, since you can be sure that the staff have been briefed on facts not yet fully revealed in the novels. Such as a characters true feelings, motivations, personality, intentions, etc. In order to better equip them to do a complete and convincing adaptation.

Of course, it could simply be KyoAni taking liberties, but I don't think this is the case at all. Since it aligns far too closely with core aspects of the series being given the same treatment. Such as Haruhi's hilarious reaction to Kyon's "confession":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxOcN2JezrQ
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Old 2009-08-09, 03:58   Link #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudvik View Post
I can't quite recall where that's from myself, but it doesn't seem unlikely. However, even when Haruhi isn't present and he and Kyon are quite alone he retains his teasingly affectionate attitude. I'm certain his cheery demeanour is a facade, but I doubt his actions towards Kyon are the same. There are also numerous moments in the anime which show Itsuki clearly looking at Kyon in a fashion not befitting of a heterosexual male. Such as the scene on in Lone Island Syndrome where he is quietly staring at Kyon's neck with a rather complicated expression on his face. Plus, this series has many harem aspects, and it's my view that EVERY SOS member has, or will have a romantic interest in him. Including Slider-tan.

I consider it to be a very intelligent use of an alternate device to give the fans hints of varying sizes about things they have long pondered. Obviously the events in Haruhi-chan are comical, but most if not all are simply exaggerations of the existing canon.
Not being written directly by Tanigawa isn't especially relevant, since you can be sure that the staff have been briefed on facts not yet fully revealed in the novels. Such as a characters true feelings, motivations, personality, intentions, etc. In order to better equip them to do a complete and convincing adaptation.

Of course, it could simply be KyoAni taking liberties, but I don't think this is the case at all. Since it aligns far too closely with core aspects of the series being given the same treatment. Such as Haruhi's hilarious reaction to Kyon's "confession":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxOcN2JezrQ
The problem with this is actually mistranslation; if one alternately translates what Kyon was supposed to find, it was "forbidden love". So Kyon could merely be pulling someone he's not technically supposed to love.
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:04   Link #306
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Originally Posted by AsterSelene View Post
The problem with this is actually mistranslation; if one alternately translates what Kyon was supposed to find, it was "forbidden love". So Kyon could merely be pulling someone he's not technically supposed to love.
The focus of the joke is completely irrelevant to the point I was making... I'm honestly baffled as to what you are trying to say.
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:04   Link #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudvik View Post
I can't quite recall where that's from myself, but it doesn't seem unlikely. However, even when Haruhi isn't present and he and Kyon are quite alone he retains his teasingly affectionate attitude. I'm certain his cheery demeanour is a facade, but I doubt his actions towards Kyon are the same. There are also numerous moments in the anime which show Itsuki clearly looking at Kyon in a fashion not befitting of a heterosexual male. Such as the scene on in Lone Island Syndrome where he is quietly staring at Kyon's neck with a rather complicated expression on his face. Plus, this series has many harem aspects, and it's my view that EVERY SOS member has, or will have a romantic interest in him. Including Slider-tan.
First, nothing in the anime counts as canon, whatsoever. Tanigawa had little to do with it except write the script for Someday in the Rain.

And, like I said, he does it simply to mess with Kyon because of how homophobic Kyon is. I sometimes do the same things to my friends, and I'm pretty straight.

For that matter... Disappearance Koizumi displays no homosexual behaviour whatsoever. He's completely devoted to Haruhi.

So Koizumi is either simply only gay for Kyon, or just messing with him, and I think the latter.

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I consider it to be a very intelligent use of an alternate device to give the fans hints of varying sizes about things they have long pondered. Obviously the events in Haruhi-chan are comical, but most if not all are simply exaggerations of the existing canon.
...Haruhi-chan was originally a gag 4koma written and drawn by an artist named Puyo. KyoAni added next to nothing into their adaptation of it.

You did know this, right?

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Originally Posted by Nudvik View Post
Not being written directly by Tanigawa isn't especially relevant, since you can be sure that the staff have been briefed on facts not yet fully revealed in the novels. Such as a characters true feelings, motivations, personality, intentions, etc. In order to better equip them to do a complete and convincing adaptation.
Tanigawa had absolutely nothing to do with the Haruhi-chan manga other than writing his impressions in the back of the first bound volume.

There isn't some "secret council of those in the know" going on here, Haruhi-chan is simply an amusing web series based off of an amusing 4koma which was based off of two years of fan speculation and wild theories about an amusing and popular show.

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Originally Posted by Nudvik View Post
Of course, it could simply be KyoAni taking liberties, but I don't think this is the case at all. Since it aligns far too closely with core aspects of the series being given the same treatment.
You're taking Haruhi-chan WAY too seriously, man.
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:06   Link #308
Zantetsuken
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Originally Posted by AsterSelene View Post
Kyon doesn't seem like the kind of person to be in denial, anyway.
Seriously? Kyon is always in denial. He says he's not smart, what a lie that turned out to be. And every time Kyon noticed Haruhi was gorgeous before Disappearance, he won't admit it/tries to deny it/not saying anything/etc etc. But after that, he starts to compliment Haruhi (not like how he compliments Mikuru, but still...).


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Like so many HaruKyon fans, you're overanalyzing. Haruhi's meant to be literal, not OHGOG LET'S ANALYZE THE HELL OUT OF EVERY CHARACTER AND THE AUTHOR. I made that mistake with other series. You don't want to face the disappointment.
You ask why do you analyze, while the majority ask why not. Because in Haruhi every character is seen through the eyes of a unreliable narrator that seldoms say how he truthfully feels, that has a person that want something really bad but cannot really believe it, a person who always fakes a smile, a person that may or may not hide her capabillity, and a person that is an artificial human but don't act human. How can you not analyze it?

Anyway, I've just realized something. Koizumi said that bizarre happenings didn't happen because Haruhi couldn't ignore common sense. But then why do esper, time traveller, and data entity exist?
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:06   Link #309
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Like I said, either way, let's not be too bent out of shape on these pairings...unless you want to be like Akai-Kurenai and proclaim that there's no pairing. I'm fine with that xDD;
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:09   Link #310
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Anyway, I've just realized something. Koizumi said that bizarre happenings didn't happen because Haruhi couldn't ignore common sense. But then why do esper, time traveller, and data entity exist?
Because Koizumi is also a liar.

Everything he spouts is one of his pet theories. Much like the Haruhi fanbase.
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:11   Link #311
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To quote Kyon: Like. I. Said.

Let's just wait until novel 10 comes out...and read the spinoff manga and watch Season 2 and relax. I'm getting stressed.

Off the topic of shipping wars, do you prefer plot alpha or beta?
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:12   Link #312
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Because Koizumi is also a liar.

Everything he spouts is one of his pet theories. Much like the Haruhi fanbase.
It... makes sense...

DAMMIT! Isn't there one reliable person in Haruhiverse?!
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:13   Link #313
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...is anyone even listening to me...
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:17   Link #314
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It... makes sense...

DAMMIT! Isn't there one reliable person in Haruhiverse?!
Haruhi. She's at least honest with everything BUT her feelings for Kyon, which are obvious enough.

She's about the only person who Kyon can trust. It's unstated, but Yuki says as much in Vol. 2.

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Let's just wait until novel 10 comes out...and read the spinoff manga and watch Season 2 and relax. I'm getting stressed.
...This is what the Haruhi fandom does, man.

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Off the topic of shipping wars, do you prefer plot alpha or beta?
...What does that have to do with shipping?
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:19   Link #315
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post

...This is what the Haruhi fandom does, man.

IT'S ANIME! IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ENTERTAINMENT, NOT STRESS~~~~ (by the way, I'm female)


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...What does that have to do with shipping?
I said off the topic of shipping. xD;
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:22   Link #316
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Did Yuki really says it explicitly in vol 2? I thought the first/only (iirc, this has been a long year) person to say that Kyon trust Haruhi was Koizumi in DoS
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:22   Link #317
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For a lair to stay effective, he must keep in practise..thus Itsuki continues to hit on Kyon so that his act in front of Haruhi will be believable.
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:22   Link #318
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IT'S ANIME! IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ENTERTAINMENT, NOT STRESS~~~~ (by the way, I'm female)
Apologies. I know many, many Yuki fanboys, and hadn't seen your edited post, so...

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I said off the topic of shipping. xD;
Ah, also apologies.

Hmm... Guess I like Beta better. It seems to be going in a more interesting direction, and I'm kind of a Sasaki fanboy, so I want to see more of her...

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Did Yuki really says it explicitly in vol 2? I thought the first/only (iirc, this has been a long year) person to say that Kyon trust Haruhi was Koizumi in DoS
No, she doesn't, but it's suggested. She says he can't trust any of the three of them... and that only leaves one person.

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For a lair to stay effective, he must keep in practise..thus Itsuki continues to hit on Kyon so that his act in front of Haruhi will bw believable.
Koizumi worries in Where Did the Cat Go that he's becoming his mask... that's also where we hear the suggestion that his real personality is actually very unpleasant.

It's in essence a Koizumi story. I don't see why so many people hate it.
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:24   Link #319
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I'm not really a Yuki fangirl. It's just that it's really late right now and I'm cranky. Normally I just like her as one of my favorite characters, but I don't go this crazy. xD;

I also like Beta better, although Alpha gets me interested in who Slider-tan is, as well as who's joining the Brigade. But as for Beta, I get more plot bunnies (I'm writing a fanfiction with a role-reversal of Kyon; he went to East Junior High and met Haruhi, and went to a suburban high school and met Sasaki)...
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:26   Link #320
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I also like Beta better, although Alpha gets me interested in who Slider-tan is, as well as who's joining the Brigade. But as for Beta, I get more plot bunnies (I'm writing a fanfiction with a role-reversal of Kyon; he went to East Junior High and met Haruhi, and went to a suburban high school and met Sasaki)...
...That's... actually really interesting. He should probably be a lot more energetic/hotblooded, then...
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