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View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi (2009) - Episode 9 Rating
Perfect 10 162 45.38%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 29 8.12%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 32 8.96%
7 out of 10 : Good 42 11.76%
6 out of 10 : Average 15 4.20%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 15 4.20%
4 out of 10 : Poor 7 1.96%
3 out of 10 : Bad 5 1.40%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 10 2.80%
1 out of 10 : Painful 40 11.20%
Voters: 357. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-08-09, 15:28   Link #821
chikorita157
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Although Kyoto Animation does good and faithful adaptations, their strengths is their weakness in this sense in Endless Eight case which they were too faithful that we got 8 loops of Endless Eight which caused rage. Of course some people will enjoy it, but most won't since there isn't really that much difference... but Kyoto Animation could of made it more interesting and make every Endless Eight episode different with different activities opposed to the same old thing over again or Kyon atleast attempt something different to try to break the loop.

What's done is done... Hopefully the last 5 episodes won't be as bad.

(My count is off because of all those Endless Eights.)
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Old 2009-08-09, 15:29   Link #822
Kogetsu Shirogane
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Old 2009-08-09, 15:36   Link #823
zriL
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I didn't feel that the characters were stupid at any time of this arc. You must notice that they don't remember the past iterations. What they did in the current loop may be different enough to break the loop, but they can't know. This uncertainty makes Kyon think that doing nothing may be a good option. And I can't believe that doing homework was an obvious way to break the loop, even spending another day together with the brigade wasn't obvious since they have been doing this for 2 weeks. Our extern point of view makes us think that it was easy to guess but if you try to put yourself into kyon's shoes, things are really not the same.
Besides, Kyon was the only one who was supposed to do something. Yuki have to observe, Mikuru is lost because she can't receive orders anymore and Koizumi seems to be enjoying the loop.
So I don't understand people saying they are losing on purpose. Koizumi may be, but he would be the only one.

I even think this arc was good for the characters. I like Koizumi much more now that I've seen E8. And the characters showed some of their weaknesses in this arc, this is one of the reason why I liked it.

I think the amount of variation between loops was almost perfect. Enough to enjoy the difference, not too much to remain faithful to the novel. And too much variation would have killed the suspense since we know (among others) that the frog costume is present in the club room afterwards.

It was a really weak story in the novel, they made it awesome

PS : I registered to comment on this thread but I forgot half of what I wanted to say xD. Sorry if my english is bad, i'm not english-speaking.

Last edited by zriL; 2009-08-09 at 16:32.
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Old 2009-08-09, 15:39   Link #824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chikorita157 View Post
Although Kyoto Animation does good and faithful adaptations, their strengths is their weakness in this sense in Endless Eight case which they were too faithful that we got 8 loops of Endless Eight which caused rage. Of course some people will enjoy it, but most won't since there isn't really that much difference... but Kyoto Animation could of made it more interesting and make every Endless Eight episode different with different activities opposed to the same old thing over again or Kyon atleast attempt something different to try to break the loop.
But that's the thing. If KyoAni had done a faithfull adpatation of Endless Eight, it would have been a single episode. It's a 30 page short story.

Endless Eight is basically KyoAni reinterpreting those 30 pages into something it never was intended to be. That's why the ending was an overblown anticlimax, it wasn't the end of a story arc, just the end of a really weird anecdote.

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Originally Posted by zriL
PS : I registered to comment on this thread but I forgot half of what I wanted to say xD. Sorry if my english is bad, i'm not english-speaking.
Wellcome to the club, I'm not a native speaker eighter. Hope it won't be the only post on this board!
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Old 2009-08-09, 15:49   Link #825
Heminga13
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This I have to disagree with, Yuki has had no trouble intervening in the past. From going forth and telling Kyon she was an alien (a big no-no for an observer), to having one of her teammates pose as a fake girlfriend so the SOS brigade can investigate the disapearance of the president of the computer club, up to and including talking to Kyon when he's trapped in a parallel dimention. She's one of the brigade's most active members. She wasn't going to figure out how to break the loop herself, but there's no reason to believe she wouldn't do everything she could to help Kyon.

Well, this passage is what I base my theory on:

Spoiler for Endless Eight novel passage:


To me, this implies that in this situation she is not allowed to affect something created by Haruhi Suzumiya (this abnormal time loop). Instead, she is ordered by the DITE to observe Haruhi's powers during this event. If someone manages to stop the loop DITE wants to make sure Yuki didn't play a large part in it in order to get the most information possible. Or who knows, maybe she is secretly observing Kyon for information, too, and thus DITE wants to see how he ends it on his own.
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Old 2009-08-09, 16:43   Link #826
zriL
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Yuki can't do anything to break the loop since it depends on Haruhi's feelings. And I don't think Yuki can manipulate feelings.

Is Soul only comes from atoms ? That is the question xD
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Old 2009-08-09, 16:56   Link #827
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Yuki doesn't yet know how to effect Haruhi directly, thus can't effect the time-loop.

It is entirely possible Yuki tried everything during the first several thousand loops with no resolution. Thus by the 15,000 she's given up completely. Since we only see from 15,498 onwards, we can't even say what she did during say loop 136.
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Old 2009-08-09, 17:13   Link #828
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Since she is out of space and time, I think she knew which loop would be the last, then she has been waiting for it to come. (maybe ^^)
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Old 2009-08-09, 17:27   Link #829
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Yuki knows she'll get out of the loop eventually, yes. I doubt she knows WHEN, though.
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Old 2009-08-09, 17:28   Link #830
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Not that I'm any less irked about Endless Eight, but I just thought of something when I thought of the telescope scene. When Haruhi reset time, was the reset localized around the our solar system (Mars would have to be reset at least, or the Brigade members would have noticed) or did it effect the entire galaxy or the whole universe? The main thing I'm not sure of is, if it was just that the Earth and the other planets were reset, when Earth returned it's particular position in orbit around the sun on the night of the telescope viewing, the sky would have appeared the same even if the time-loop was only localized. Or would there have been any noticeable changes in the stars themselves over the course of nearly 600? And even if they weren't noticeable to the naked eye, if the rest of the universe had been moving, wouldn't someone at NASA have noticed?

The reason this is so intriguing is, that if Haruhi even reset just our galaxy, her influence would have to travel faster than light to manipulate data hundreds of thousands of light years away. Then Haruhi would not only be able to trample all over Newtonian physics with the Tenshins, but Eistenian physics as well.
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Old 2009-08-09, 17:29   Link #831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Yuki knows she'll get out of the loop eventually, yes. I doubt she knows WHEN, though.
I doubt she knew when, too. Yuki actually had a bit of a surprised look on her face when Kyon had his big moment in this episode.


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Originally Posted by mokuseimaru View Post
Not that I'm any less irked about Endless Eight, but I just thought of something when I thought of the telescope scene. When Haruhi reset time, was the reset localized around the our solar system (Mars would have to be reset at least, or the Brigade members would have noticed) or did it effect the entire galaxy or the whole universe? The main thing I'm not sure of is, if it was just that the Earth and the other planets were reset, when Earth returned it's particular position in orbit around the sun on the night of the telescope viewing, the sky would have appeared the same even if the time-loop was only localized. Or would there have been any noticeable changes in the stars themselves over the course of nearly 600? And even if they weren't noticeable to the naked eye, if the rest of the universe had been moving, wouldn't someone at NASA have noticed?

The reason this is so intriguing is, that if Haruhi even reset just our galaxy, her influence would have to travel faster than light to manipulate data hundreds of thousands of light years away. Then Haruhi would not only be able to trample all over Newtonian physics with the Tenshins, but Eistenian physics as well.
Interesting point. I assume that Haruhi reset the entire universe... precisely because of your NASA point. I don't think that Haruhi is bound by the laws of physics.
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Old 2009-08-09, 17:32   Link #832
Heminga13
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Since she is out of space and time, I think she knew which loop would be the last, then she has been waiting for it to come. (maybe ^^)
I believe she meant it when she said she doesn't how and when the loop ends, mainly because I believe the 'luck' theory and there's no definitive way to predict luck (even for DITE). Not sure about her ability to 'sync up' to her past and future self, though. Maybe because her future self is currently in a state of non-existance for the current reality she can't, similar to Mikuru being unable to contact the future. I think this goes along with the two-week loop being in it's own reality of sorts, with no real future and just written based on a common past. I'm pretty sure Yuki can contact DITE (don't remember it saying she can't) but DITE also cannot contact something that currently doesn't exist in that reality.

Hmm...that seemed a little ramble-ish. Sorry lol
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Old 2009-08-09, 17:39   Link #833
Kaisos Erranon
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The reason this is so intriguing is, that if Haruhi even reset just our galaxy, her influence would have to travel faster than light to manipulate data hundreds of thousands of light years away. Then Haruhi would not only be able to trample all over Newtonian physics with the Tenshins, but Eistenian physics as well.
I'm with Triple_R, Haruhi can break established laws of physics. That's what being God is all about.
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Old 2009-08-09, 17:49   Link #834
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It also depends on how the DITE handle time. If they are non-linear, then the entire concept of the loop means nothing to them since they are both before and after the loop. However their observers (or at least just Yuki) are trapped in the loop in a linear form. Sure she might know that the loop will end, but she might not have bothered to find out on which time around. It is also possible that the ending of the loop in a variable and it changes universe to universe, thus the DITE can't predict its ending down to the last loop's number.

As for Haruhi...if she couldn't break the laws of physics than the DITE would have no interest in her.
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Old 2009-08-09, 17:53   Link #835
Heminga13
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Yeah, I think maybe Yuki's trapped in the loop and DITE isn't, but because of the DITE's objective she is not given the information as to how the loop ends or when it will end (so as not to reveal that to the others). I think for this event she is allowed to answer their questions truthfully (current loop number, variations, etc. Basically stuff she does know) but other than that she is meant to observe what happens. Which might explain why some people saw Yuki 'surprised' when Kyon finally thought of something at the cafe. She honestly had no idea when or how it would end.
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Old 2009-08-09, 18:15   Link #836
mokuseimaru
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I'm with Triple_R, Haruhi can break established laws of physics. That's what being God is all about.
Ah, but, for all the hubbub about it, the "Haruhi is God" theory is only believed by certain members of the Organization. But it's hard to a lot of other explanations. If she's not God, maybe she was given her powers by God; perhaps a Job-esque challenge from the Devil was involved (and can't think of the terms though). Or perhaps, Haruhi "collided with God" (a la Futurama) and gained the power to remake the universe, only without the omniscience part.
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Old 2009-08-09, 18:20   Link #837
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Ah, but, for all the hubbub about it, the "Haruhi is God" theory is only believed by certain members of the Organization. But it's hard to a lot of other explanations. If she's not God, maybe she was given her powers by God; perhaps a Job-esque challenge from the Devil was involved (and can't think of the terms though). Or perhaps, Haruhi "collided with God" (a la Futurama) and gained the power to remake the universe, only without the omniscience part.
Well, in any event, Haruhi can still break the laws of physics, I think. Even if Haruhi is simply "Bruce Almighty"-esque, it doesn't appear as though any limitations have been put upon her aside from lack of awareness (and presumably what I call 'glass chin' weakness - i.e. for all of her power, a sniper could take her out if the SOS Brigade didn't get to him/her in time).

I'm open to most of these possibilities (the Futurama one's a bit too silly for me to take seriously).
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Old 2009-08-09, 18:22   Link #838
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It also depends on how the DITE handle time. If they are non-linear, then the entire concept of the loop means nothing to them since they are both before and after the loop. However their observers (or at least just Yuki) are trapped in the loop in a linear form. Sure she might know that the loop will end, but she might not have bothered to find out on which time around. It is also possible that the ending of the loop in a variable and it changes universe to universe, thus the DITE can't predict its ending down to the last loop's number.

As for Haruhi...if she couldn't break the laws of physics than the DITE would have no interest in her.
However, breaking General Relativity is a bit different than breaking the Square Cube Law. And considering that Haruhi nearly destroyed the Earth on a number of occasions, if she has the potential to control the entire universe, the DITE might eventually consider the risks she poses to it's survival to outweigh her potential for unwrapping the mystery of "auto-evolution" and decide to get rid of her.
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Old 2009-08-09, 18:35   Link #839
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There is the distinct possibility that they can't "get rid of her". How do you take out someone that can change the entire universe just because she's losing a baseball game or reset all time because she's unfulfilled or lonely on her last day of summer?

Also...isn't that power what they are after? The ability to make something from nothing? To take the next step in their evolution? There are already shown to be out side of the four dimentions and perhaps even five dimentions if Yuki can remember everything that happened in the Endless Eight and can effectively sync with her future-past selves. They've been shown to be able to alter matter at the subatomic level so that a desk can be made into a long metal spear, or a destroyed classroom can be recreated in exacting detail. They can change the mass of themselves it would seem (if Yuki can be made to seem weightless on Kyon's bike that would imply a change in mass). You'd think they wouldn't need Haruhi...but they do.
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Old 2009-08-09, 18:36   Link #840
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8 Episodes of this madness and all we get is THEM DOING HOMEWORK!?! SO INSANELY WEAK!
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